Calcium-- do I need D3?

[ParkerandMe]

Okay guys, it's only a few days until I can get my bearded dragon. I was at my local pet store the other day, getting my supplies, and realized they only had the Rep-Cal calcium without phosphorus or D3. It's a small tub with a green label that says "For reptiles raised under natural sunlight". However, I have also heard that they can have too much D3, or that there is no proof it does anything for your beardies. Of course, I have also heard completely contradicting opinions. Do I need the one with D3? How important is it to have it? My dragon will have 12 hours of his Reptisun 18" UVB tube bulb (I am going to cut a hole in the screen top so he has full access to the light), and I plan on taking him outside 3-6 times a week in the summer (after he adjusts to his new life). If I did get a new one it would probably take some time to ship-- would that be okay? I plan on dusting his food with Rep-Cal times a week, and with Herptivite 2 times a week. Should I dust less as he grows older? I will be giving him phoenix/horn worms and dubia most likely, but mostly dubia (they're good for him and his favorite food!). Should I shake them with the supplements in a bag or just sprinkle them in the bowl? Thanks, any help or advice is greatly appreciated!

 

[CooperDragon]

Are you getting a T5 high output UVB or a T8? The calcium without D3 is usually for high output bulbs or MVBs as those provide enough UVB exposure that supplementation isn't needed. I've had good luck with Repashy Calcium Plus. I put some in a small cup and then drop the feeders in and shake them gently in batches of 5 or so and repeat. You only need to dust one feeding a day. Calcium 5x per week and vitamin 2x a week. You can cut back to 1x a week on the vitamin for an adult.

 

[Taterbug]

The supplement powders are designed to "dose" a cricket with the appropriate amount of calcium and (optionally) D3. The "Shake and bake" method works good at getting a good, even coating. Sprinkling and "by the pinch" methods are more likely to be over/under dosing.

I use calcium w/out D3 and HO lights. It's more than a bit unclear if the dietary supplements are useful to the dragon, but overdose is a real thing. Generally the supplements have a low amount of D3 in it so it's not a big concern but I prefer to avoid it if it's not needed.

Cooper, have you seen any info about the difference in T8 vs T5/MVB (or UV intensity I guess) at D3 production? I've mostly read it on care sheets and it sounds a little sketchy to me.

 

[ParkerandMe]

I'm pretty sure it's a T8 but not really sure. I'm new to this-- what's the difference?

 

[CooperDragon]

It's controversial. It probably also depends on the intensity of the UVB at the basking spot rather than the stated output right at the bulb as many of them advertise. There are some articles about it on anapsid.org that infer that as long as there is some UVB exposure, then D3 supplementation is not needed. The actual amount needed isn't quantified though. The answer so far, from what I've seen, is it depends. It seems to be agreed upon that too much D3 is harmful though. That's why I say avoid D3 supplementation if the UVB exposure is relatively high (MVBs and HO bulbs) and limit it if UVB exposure is low. The problem is measuring UVB output vs dragon health (which includes D3 production to an extent). Since the goal is to try and replicate natural sunlight in the native habitat, I guess the trick is to find average UVB exposure of a Dragon in the wild (keeping in mind that they can self regulate as they wish) and try to imitate that exposure in captivity.

 

[CooperDragon]

I'm pretty sure it's a T8 but not really sure. I'm new to this-- what's the difference?

The T8 bulbs are wider and less intense than the T5 bulbs in general. Setting aside the debates and articles about it, in my experience dusting crickets with the Repashy (with D3) didn't cause any problems using a ReptiSun 10.0 T8. I haven't used any supplementation so far with my new high output bulb, but will be using calcium without D3 for fear of overdoing it.

You're using a good bulb, so if you keep it fresh every 6 months and have it at a good distance of 6-8'' from the basking spot, you may not need to supplement with D3, but I don't think it will hurt assuming you're using the T8 bulb. If you use a T5/HO bulb, then I would avoid D3 supplementation for sure.

 

[Taterbug]

I'm pretty sure it's a T8 but not really sure. I'm new to this-- what's the difference?

T8 - 1" diameter
T5 - 5/8" diameter

@ cooper - ah ok, thanks. It strikes me as strange how arbitrarily "enough" seems to be determined :/ especially when neither side has good supporting data. There was a study showing D3 production plateaus after a duration of about 2hr but it was only on baby dragons 0-6 months. Wish there had been follow up for the long term effect seems like it would be valuable.

 

[ParkerandMe]

Okay I have a T5 then. Thank you, I'm going to keep my calcium.

 

[Taterbug]

Okay I have a T5 then. Thank you, I'm going to keep my calcium.

That's great!