brumation or illness?

[jjb99]

Hello! I'm new to the forum, and have a question about my female bearded dragon. She is about a year and four months old, give or take.

About a month ago, she started getting increasingly lazy and sleepy, not eating, and not going to the bathroom much. She started just not eating her veggies and only eating bugs, but then switched to not eating at all. I talked to a coworker of mine who said she was probably just going through brumation, and that I shouldn't worry unless she started losing a bunch of weight.

Well, she started losing weight. So, about two weeks ago, I started hand feeding her green beans, snap peas, and dried mealworms, trying to boost her appetite or something, I don't know. She will occasionally eat live mealworms or crickets if they're moving around enough to get her attention and walk right in front of her. She won't go after them. She lets most crickets just wander around her 75-gallon tank.

Nowadays, she's eating less than ever by herself. I wasn't EXTREMELY worried until today, when she produced the most disgusting and colorful poop I've ever seen come out of her. Otherwise, she holds herself up fine and walks around like nothing's up when she's not in lazy mode.

Opinions, thoughts? Thank you!

(I would upload photos, but I'm not entirely sure how...can someone tell me? Most forums I've been on just have an upload button. I apologize!)

 

[Quelaag]

Did you already clean up the poop? Personally, if it's abnormal I would take it and get it tested. But then again, I am personally an overly paranoid individual and it would personally put my mind at ease to get something like that tested. Judging by the weight loss and poop, my first guess would be it's some sort of parasite. Those can usually kill appetites and energy too and they are usually easily found in a fecal sample.

However, I am no expert on beardies as I am still a newbie to owning one so that's just my opinion really. Some of the more experienced owners here might be able to help you out if you provide more information on your set up-- like what kind of lights your using, what the temperatures in the enclosure are, etc.

Also do you have the picture uploaded via Facebook or some image sharing website? You can provide us with the URLs from those sites to look at. Sadly I don't see an option to directly upload a photo directly though.

 

[jjb99]

Did you already clean up the poop? Personally, if it's abnormal I would take it and get it tested. But then again, I am personally an overly paranoid individual and it would personally put my mind at ease to get something like that tested. Judging by the weight loss and poop, my first guess would be it's some sort of parasite. Those can usually kill appetites and energy too and they are usually easily found in a fecal sample.

However, I am no expert on beardies as I am still a newbie to owning one so that's just my opinion really. Some of the more experienced owners here might be able to help you out if you provide more information on your set up-- like what kind of lights your using, what the temperatures in the enclosure are, etc.

Also do you have the picture uploaded via Facebook or some image sharing website? You can provide us with the URLs from those sites to look at. Sadly I don't see an option to directly upload a photo directly though.

I was thinking about some sort of parasite as well, but she plumped right back up when I started making her eat, so I'm not 100% sure. Yeah, I cleaned it up, it was so runny it was spreading.
I was going to post a picture of the poop, and I don't really want to upload that to any social networking site just to get the url, though I guess there are options that I'm the only one that could see it. I mean on the outside she looks and acts like a perfectly healthy beardie, I'm just so confused.

 

[Taterbug]

Please share your setup so we can help rule out husbandry mistakes.

At the least you will want to take the next poop to get a fecal check. I agree it sounds like it could be parasites. If the check comes back clear you may want to consider a vet trip if she is still loosing weight. Healthy dragons should not loose much weight if they brumate or go off food. How much weight has she lost?

What foods was she eating previously? You'll want to make sure she is getting good food. The veggies you list are not good as a primary food source. Too much if certain foods can upset the stomach, and if she is not basking it won't be digested properly. Check out beautifuldragons.com for a good list.

While probably unrelated to her behavior now, some things to consider abut bugs.
Mealworms are not very suitable for dragons, they are hard to digest. If you want a worm, try Phoenix worms, or silkworms. Crickets should not be left in the tank, they can annoy her or even chew on her. Additionally they are the source of parasites so you want to avoid exposing your dragon to their poop when possible.

 

[jjb99]

Please share your setup so we can help rule out husbandry mistakes.

At the least you will want to take the next poop to get a fecal check. I agree it sounds like it could be parasites. If the check comes back clear you may want to consider a vet trip if she is still loosing weight. Healthy dragons should not loose much weight if they brumate or go off food. How much weight has she lost?

What foods was she eating previously? You'll want to make sure she is getting good food. The veggies you list are not good as a primary food source. Too much if certain foods can upset the stomach, and if she is not basking it won't be digested properly. Check out beautifuldragons.com for a good list.

While probably unrelated to her behavior now, some things to consider abut bugs.
Mealworms are not very suitable for dragons, they are hard to digest. If you want a worm, try Phoenix worms, or silkworms. Crickets should not be left in the tank, they can annoy her or even chew on her. Additionally they are the source of parasites so you want to avoid exposing your dragon to their poop when possible.

She is in a 75 gallon tank, between 95 and 102 degrees basking and 85 cool side. I have partial tile and partial sand, but I never let her eat on the sand. She has plumped back up since I began hand feeding her, she doesn't look thin anymore.

I read that those are good staple vegetables, though greens like collards and such are better, but because I'm having to partially force her, I can't really work with those right now. I'm still putting the calcium and vitamins on what little I can get her to eat.

I usually don't feed her mealworms, once again, the dried ones are just what I can get into her mouth right now. I only bought the one 25 count of mealworms once just to test, and she didn't care about them much. I also never had the problem of her letting the crickets walk around her tank before because she ate them right away, and after giving her a couple hours now to possibly have SOME interest, I take them out and put them back in their container. She's only eaten maybe four or five this week.

I contacted an office with a reputable reptile vet in the area a couple days ago, but only the one guy handles reptiles, so I have to wait a bit to go in. He was recommended on a couple websites and by another veterinarian I contacted.

 

[Taterbug]

I highly recommend getting a scale. If she isn't actually loosing weight but just "looks skinny" it may not be a problem at all. They can go a lot longer than we expect without food and be just fine. In that case forcing her to eat will just stress her out.

The foods are pretty good (except the dried mealies), just not the best long term/only offering. Some folks aren't aware of better foods so I usually mention it to be safe. It's not unheard of for dragons to go off food out of boredom, and strike for quite a while. New and different feeders and veggies can inspire appetite in those cases.

If she is sick and loosing weight you will want to switch foods to something easier on her. Oxbow makes some therapy foods that mix up to a slurry, or even baby food. Dried worms especially won't be doing her any good.

 

[jjb99]

I highly recommend getting a scale. If she isn't actually loosing weight but just "looks skinny" it may not be a problem at all. They can go a lot longer than we expect without food and be just fine. In that case forcing her to eat will just stress her out.

The foods are pretty good (except the dried mealies), just not the best long term/only offering. Some folks aren't aware of better foods so I usually mention it to be safe. It's not unheard of for dragons to go off food out of boredom, and strike for quite a while. New and different feeders and veggies can inspire appetite in those cases.

If she is sick and loosing weight you will want to switch foods to something easier on her. Oxbow makes some therapy foods that mix up to a slurry, or even baby food. Dried worms especially won't be doing her any good.

I've tried several foods, she won't touch any of it at all. That's the only thing she'll even look at. I was able to be squeezed in very early tomorrow morning at the veterinary office, and got a stool sample, so we'll see what the doctor says.

 

[Taterbug]

Aww poor thing, good luck tomorrow.

 

[jjb99]

Aww poor thing, good luck tomorrow.

Thanks! Oh, and I have actually been looking into the Phoenix worms for a few months now, are they really as great as people say?

 

[Taterbug]

They are pretty good yes! They are a larva so will be higher in fat on average than crickets or roaches, so some folks don't like to use them exclusively because of that. They have a lot of calcium in their exoskeleton, a unique feature among our common feeders, but they probably need to be chewed to get that calcium out. undigested skins and whole bugs aren't giving your dragon the advertised nutrition Some dragons go nuts over the flies too!
One draw back is the size, they are quite small.

 

[jjb99]

Very cool. I might get some just to see how she does, once she's eating again. I went to the vet today, and they don't have the results back from her sample yet to see if it's a parasite, but the vet did give me four pills I'm supposed to give her to support good bacteria and digestion or something. So, we'll see.