Brumation for 5 Months?

[MSP]

Hi everyone! This is more of an "is this normal" question than "is my beardie healthy" question, but I've gotten to the point where I feel as though I should ask people who potentially have more experience than myself.

My husband and I have had Evelyn (Citrus x Sandfire) since June of 2012. That puts her at a little over a year old, as she wasn't a brand new hatchling when we got her, but she was still pretty darn tiny. She's about 16-17 inches head to tail. In March, we bought her a batch of superworms, a nice hornworm pod, and a big bunch of escarole. I'd read up on brumation and figured that due to her age and the timing, it was unlikely she would go down for the winter. Well, very predictably, she ate one hornworm, a few bowls of veggies, and decided she was so tired she needed to sleep for hours on end. As our hornworm pod spoiled and died off, we watched her get sleepier still.

At this point, she is sleeping all day, all night. She wakes up for her weekly bath and looks quite perky. The last bowel movement she had (as she still ate a few veggies at this point) was in early June in her bath. Now she doesn't touch her veggies at all, and she's in a deeper sleep than ever. Worms are totally out of the question; she looks at us like we're crazy. So... We have a few hundred pet superworms living in a bin under her tank.

But... 5 months? And no sign of a return to her normal self? Most of what I've read says that an average amount of time for a long-ish brumation is 2-3 months. Also, some (probably uninformed) "breeder" I've met said that she's probably sick, since beardies don't start brumating in March. I've heard they can start brumation any time, for any reason they want. Should I be concerned? She hasn't dropped much weight, if any at all. That's the only thing that's kept me sane. First-time brumation is not for the weak of heart, apparently!

 

[AHBD]

Hi there ! That is a long time, especially for a young dragon, but that's the way some dragons do. And yes, there can at times be a health problem, but not necessarily , and it's good that she hasn't lost weight. Sometimes with a few adjustments you can get them back to more normal behavior. Can you give a rundown on her tank, exactly what type + brand of lights, the temperatures throughout, and whether or not she has a log or a hiding place that she's using ? If so, go ahead and take out the hide. It's time for her to be up and around, so if you keep any objects that she uses to sleep under out of the tank, that will make a difference, also get her out in some natural sunlight [ not in a glass tank, they heat up dangerously in a few minutes ! ] If you have a large plastic tote, that will work, but they get hot, too and it must be partially shaded and you would do this before it gets really hot out. Or if you have a harness + leash, that would be the way to go, or a screened cage. A few adjustments may get her active again.

 

[MSP]

Hi! She's in a large ExoTerra (approx. 40 gal. size) and has a Powersun for her UV/heat source... I believe it's a 160 watt, but I don't have the box handy. That's on one side of her tank, with a large rock ledge below it. The surface basking spot (digital thermometer with a probe) on the hottest part of the ledge is about 108. There's also a heating pad on the same side, on low heat under her slate to keep the ambient temperature up on that end (in the mid-80's). The other end of her tank is usually in the mid-70's during the day, and at night, she's left with only her heating pad on the warm side of her tank. When not in brumation, she likes to sleep on sprawled out on the warm slate. The nighttime ambient is likely in the low 70's, as that's where we keep our AC.

She has a large piece of driftwood that reaches up to her ledge with a hollowed out area underneath. She's been sleeping curled up under the base of the driftwood (right in the center of her tank), so it would be easy enough just to take that out. She's also pretty good about hanging out on our shoulders, so I can take her out on her leash and just walk with her for a while.

It would be nice to have our awake Evelyn back! I miss her cute curiosity; she has a blast keeping track of our dogs, and we prefer giving her chin rubs when she's awake. :lol:

 

[outcold434]

My female Cortana, who is also right around 1 year old just woke up from a 6.5 month brumation about two weeks ago.

She wasn't in a deep sleep but she just didn't move or leave her cave much. I was able to get her to eat superworms every once in awhile but that was about it. I just gave her a bath weekly and dropped water on her nose every morning with a syringe.

It was the hardest thing just to leave her alone but she was parasite free and showed no signs off anything else so I just let her do her thing.

That was until 2 weeks ago. Now she hates me for keeping her in her tank and not letting her explore every square inch of my apartment whenever she wants.

 

[Jaskotch]

Thanks for posting! I am going thru a similar thing with Vincent- (and this is my first experience with a reptile).
He was only 7.5 months when his behavior abruptly changed to brumation mode (early May), and not what I would consider to be full grown. Took him to the local vet, who treated him for pins with Nemex (two treatments), and while he kind of came out of it a bit and put on some more weight, he just kind of slid right back into the same mode- so basically, not a total blackout, but like both of you describe, sleeping most of the time, hardly ever coming out on his own (although, occasionally, he does), eating maybe every other time he'd be out - like 5 - 7 big dubias, or sometimes he'll grab a few dragonbites before heading back into the cave. I've kept him hydrated, he'll sometimes sleep on those 5 - 7 dubias a week before pooping, but that's as long as he's going without pooping, and the poops look and smell fine....... just pulled him out yesterday for a soak, for all the world he sure "looks" fine to me, but like you guys, I've been wondering what is wrong with him, sleeping thru the best part of the year when I've got fresh veggies in the garden and it's sunny and hot enough for him to be outside! Plus the fact that he's so young- he won't be a year old until 9/18! just over 17" and he stopped gaining weight in early June, he's been weighing in at between 372 and 378 grams during that time...
I have been telling myself that he's doing what he needs to do, and since he looks good and isn't dropping weight, and I am just hoping this doesn't go on too much longer. It's a comfort to read about others having similar experiences. I totally relate to the statement that you miss your beardie! Seems I hardly got to know mine before he "went away". BTW, because I am paranoid by nature, I did just send off a fecal (yesterday's poop) to BDCo.... just in case... will be interesting to see what the results of that are. Pic of Vincent, during his 15 minute soak, yesterday. Doesn't care for it, So tolerant! Maybe we need a support group for people with beardies who over-brumate.

 

[Jaskotch]

yikes- my fecal sample was delivered to Bearded Dragon Co last Monday, couple of email inquiries and a PM later, still waiting to hear if I should be worried or not... hopefully if it was bad news, there would not be a delay in letting me know... ??

 

[MSP]

That's not helpful that they're taking so long! It does, however, say on their homepage: "Please forgive us for any delays this week, we appreciate your patience while we do our best to catch up. Sorry for any inconveniences this may cause!" I don't know if that's up-to-date or not, though. Vincent is beautiful! I'll have to try to get a picture of Evie during her bath today.

I'm also planning on starting her "time to come out of your sleepy place" routine this weekend. After I get her hydrated, I'm going to take her out into the sun for a bit. I have a plastic kiddie pool that I'm thinking of lining with a towel. She doesn't have a leash and harness that fit her appropriately, so I'll have to get back in the market for that. I'd forgotten that I was unhappy with the way the one we have fits; she's been asleep for so long!! (Any recommendations on that?)

When I put her back in her tank without her driftwood, I'm fully expecting that she will excavate the entire place. The destruction might even be photo-worthy.

 

[Jaskotch]

Well I did hear from them this morning- "sample double checked twice, and there is really nothing to be concerned about. You had absolutely no coccidia on the entire slide and just a couple of pinworms (which of course, if you wanted to treat with panacur, that would be fine)."
I think I will let him be, rather than go thru all that disruption for a couple of pinworms-
Anyway, definitely eases the mind to know that a heavy parasite load is to blame for this! I'm going to let Vincent continue to call the shots... for now!
Keep us posted!

 

[sophiehawes]

hi ya i know ur pain as i have had the same... just want to share my experience..

were to start... my female Lola is under a year old and she was the same as urs sleeping all day, hiding in the cold end of the viv and no eating ect.. people told me "she is too young to brumate, it was the wrong time of the year that she was sick".. u can imagine i was scared to death.. well after a vet visit (gave her a clean bill of heath) , getting wormed, force/syringe feeding, putting her in the basking spot every 5mins myself, changing her uvb strip and taking out nearly everything in her viv so she couldnt hide... i literally tried everything i could think of BAR letting her do what she wanted all along which was to be left the hell alone to sleep it off!! so i decided i would let her get on with sleeping so i kept her lights off and kept an eye on her every so often to make sure she was ok and to make sure she wasnt losing weight...

well after about 4 and a half months of no eating and continual sleeping... 2weeks ago she emerged a new lizard... she has regained her appetite (eating anything and everything).. staying up all day and being VERY active during the day.. she is up b4 her lights r even on in the morning.. pooping like a champ and basks more now than she has ever done she sits on the light nearly all day!! she has eaten that much she is now about to she shed!! the picture below is of the other morning i put her lights on and there she was lol :lol:

please dont get me wrong.. i have had some really good advice and would not have got through it without peoples help from the forum.. im just simply saying that if u can rule out parasites and know she is ok and healthy mayb u should let her do what comes natural.. :?:

i just wanted to share my experience with you as i know how worrying it can be.. Believe me i was at the end of my tether.. i thought she was depressed and hated me!


well really i hope this helps you and that she/he is not going to be like this for long for ur sake

good luck

 

[Jaskotch]

thanks for posting! great (and encouraging) story!
cute girl, too!

 

[MSP]

Well, it rained all afternoon, so our playtime was cancelled. I did give her a bath, clean her slate, change out her veggies, feed her worms (sigh), and remove her hiding spot from her tank. She hasn't decided on a new sleeping spot yet, so fingers crossed!

I did manage to get a picture of her in her bath today. She was even feeling photogenic, which is rare with her; she usually looks really annoyed at having a camera/phone in her face or looks away. :lol:

 

[Jaskotch]

awwww sweet!

 

[MSP]

I am back with an update! After 6 solid months of brumation, we've had a week of success with Evelyn! We took some suggestions from this thread, so if anyone else comes by who's looking for a fix for a brumation that seems like it's dragged on too long, they did work!

We removed the big piece of driftwood from her tank that she'd been hiding under about three weeks ago. She was a little disgruntled at first, but she was more awake. She still wasn't interested in basking or food, but her eyes were open.

We got her a new harness, and we've taken her out onto our balcony to sit in the sun twice a week (for about 20 minutes each session). She LOVED it. She was alert and perky, and when she got to the point where she was gaping, we took her back inside. We're going to continue to try to do that as often as possible, but here in FL, most afternoons will be rainy and overcast for the next month still.

We went to our reptile store and got her some butterworms two Sundays ago. We also got her a new piece of driftwood to climb to her ledge to bask. She ate one worm the first day. She started basking. Every day for the past week and a half, she's been up on her ledge. Thrilled! She went on with some sporadic butterworm/superworm/lettuce eating throughout the next week.

Over the last four days, she's started eating 6-8 butterworms a day, plus two or three superworms. We're happy to let her pig out on the butterworms for now... nice and fattening. :wink: She had her first healthy bowel movement (in 5 months!!) two days ago.

And that's how it's gone! Thank you to everyone for the support and suggestions! Hopefully we don't have to endure such a lengthy brumation again, but only time will tell.

Also, I'm assuming that butterworms aren't necessarily the best staple. I usually feed her supers and supplement with silks, butters, or phoenix worms. Any thoughts?

 

[sophiehawes]

I am back with an update! After 6 solid months of brumation, we've had a week of success with Evelyn! We took some suggestions from this thread, so if anyone else comes by who's looking for a fix for a brumation that seems like it's dragged on too long, they did work!

We removed the big piece of driftwood from her tank that she'd been hiding under about three weeks ago. She was a little disgruntled at first, but she was more awake. She still wasn't interested in basking or food, but her eyes were open.

We got her a new harness, and we've taken her out onto our balcony to sit in the sun twice a week (for about 20 minutes each session). She LOVED it. She was alert and perky, and when she got to the point where she was gaping, we took her back inside. We're going to continue to try to do that as often as possible, but here in FL, most afternoons will be rainy and overcast for the next month still.

We went to our reptile store and got her some butterworms two Sundays ago. We also got her a new piece of driftwood to climb to her ledge to bask. She ate one worm the first day. She started basking. Every day for the past week and a half, she's been up on her ledge. Thrilled! She went on with some sporadic butterworm/superworm/lettuce eating throughout the next week.

Over the last four days, she's started eating 6-8 butterworms a day, plus two or three superworms. We're happy to let her pig out on the butterworms for now... nice and fattening. :wink: She had her first healthy bowel movement (in 5 months!!) two days ago.

And that's how it's gone! Thank you to everyone for the support and suggestions! Hopefully we don't have to endure such a lengthy brumation again, but only time will tell.

Also, I'm assuming that butterworms aren't necessarily the best staple. I usually feed her supers and supplement with silks, butters, or phoenix worms. Any thoughts?

really pleased u got ya baby back its horrible to not see then for so long