Brumating? See last post.

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Rachella

Juvie Member
Okay. So, I don't know if I'm just being overly paranoid (again) or if something is actually wrong, but I've noticed a behaviour change in Dude with the past week.

Now, we had house-sat for family members for two weeks (ending last Friday) at which time Dude and Girl were moved into the house with us so we could take care of them while the family was gone. They came back last Friday and we went back home, bringing Dude and Girl with us. This is about when I noticed the change, so I'm not sure if any sort of relocation stress would be a probable cause.

The first thing is he is definitely with a decreased appetite. Dude's never been really enthusiastic about his vegetables, but now I can't get him to eat a single leaf. He ate a piece of green bean, which is his absolute favorite and he never has a problem eating it, but that's about it. He ate a few crickets, but didn't really show any interest in them and took his sweet time, generally only eating on one when it got too close. He has been eating some baby food squash, but generally with a lazy sort of manner and not nearly as much as Girl chows down. That's worrisome because Girl is smaller than he is.

Girl, by contrast, lunges at any and all of her veggies and has no problem chowing down on some crix and squash. She's a very enthusiastic nommer.

Dude's also been a little lazy. I wouldn't call it lethargic, but definitely lazy. The first day we came back home he seemed to recognize being back and head bobbed all over the place and run back and forth like he always does. But slowly as the week progressed he began to grow less enthusiastic and now just sort of lounges like a lazy man with nothing better to do.

He also hasn't pooped in about a week. =/ I'm attributing it to not eating much of anything.

The one thing that worries me, really, is that usually his eyes are open and alert, wide-eyed. But today I noticed they were sort of half-lidded as he tried to hide behind the shade of a box hut and sleep all day.

I've been thinking about trying Pedialyte. I've seen a lot of people recommend it and I just wanted to make sure it was OK to use and if it might be useful to sort of perk him up and see if it helps him regain some appetite. And if so, do I get just the general non-flavored kind? How much should I add to his food?

For some info on his layout, here it is ::

Do you use UVB lights? Yes
If so, Is it a coil, compact, fluorescent tube, or Mercury Vapor bulb? MVB
What is the brand name and number of your bulb? Wattage (if MVB)? 100w
How old is your UVB bulb? 2 months or so? Give or take
How close can your dragon get to the UVB? 12 inches
Do you use a separate basking bulb? What kind and what is the wattage? No
What are the basking temps? Average 100 F
What is the cool side temp? 80
Do you take the temps with a stick on thermometer, a digital thermometer with a wire and a probe end or a temp gun? Digital Therm
Where exactly are you taking your basking temps? On top of his basking spot for basking, on the other side for cool side
Do you use a heat rock or heat pad? No
What do you feed your dragon? Please be specific. Collard Greens, Crickets, Green Beans, Endive, Baby food butternut squash
How often do you feed and what time do you feed (morning, afternoon, night)? Afternoon once a day
Do you gutload (feed) your crickets, worms, etc? Yes
Do you use vitamin or calcium supplements? What brand(s)? How many days a week do you use each of them? Yes. Can't say the brands atm (at someone else's house atm). Calcium 2x a week, Vitamin 3 or 4x
Is your dragon having regular bowel movements (poops)? No D:
Do you bath your dragon? How often? Once a week
Do you mist your dragon or offer water other than in the bath? No (except what's on his veggies and in the baby food)

I think those are all the relevant questions to the issue at hand, so let me know if there's anything else to add onto it. Hopefully this is just a funk he's in and I'm just being overly cautious. :( OH! His substrate is sand. I'm very much aware of the danger sand can present, but please be assured I take extreme caution with it (he never gets fed in his tank and I end up replacing the sand once every two or three weeks - on that note, reeeeeaaaally thinking about switching to tile again since sand gets so expensive. )
 

Rachella

Juvie Member
Original Poster
He pooped for me, but still hasn't shown any interest in his food. He's been more active lately though, going back to his usual routine of head bobbing and crawling around.

I just can't get him to eat. D: He doesn't look like he's gonna shed at all, so I'm at odds. I think I'm gonna try some pedialyte and see if that springs his appetite back into action. Try some crickets again today also.

Thanks for asking! ^^
 

Drache613

BD.org Sicko
Staff member
Moderator
Hello,

How old is your boy? I did not see where you mentioned his age.
What mercury vapor bulb are you using, which brand is it? If you are using the Powersun 100 watt, & it is the "newer" model that has a red bearded dragon on the front, you should consider replacing it. That light has been causing some issues in some dragons.
What brand of calcium do you use? It is recommended that calcium is given 3 times per week or so for adults, & 5 times per week for babies. I would decrease the vitamins to 1-2 times per week as 3-4 times per week is a little too much.
How do his stools look, are the urates hard or soft, white or discolored? How often does he go to the bathroom?

Tracie
 

Rachella

Juvie Member
Original Poster
MyLittleFoot":9fe82 said:
I'm glad he is doing better, I hope he continues to improve

It's hard to watch them when they feel bad

It is. :( He just seems so.... disinterested in things I guess is the best way to describe it. Heck, it even takes him a couple of minutes before he'll head bob at Girl, when usually he goes stark raving mad the moment he sees her! But at least he's becoming a -little- more active, just... :banghead: won't :banghead: eat!! :banghead:

Drache613":9fe82 said:
Hello,

How old is your boy? I did not see where you mentioned his age.
What mercury vapor bulb are you using, which brand is it? If you are using the Powersun 100 watt, & it is the "newer" model that has a red bearded dragon on the front, you should consider replacing it. That light has been causing some issues in some dragons.
What brand of calcium do you use? It is recommended that calcium is given 3 times per week or so for adults, & 5 times per week for babies. I would decrease the vitamins to 1-2 times per week as 3-4 times per week is a little too much.
How do his stools look, are the urates hard or soft, white or discolored? How often does he go to the bathroom?

Tracie

Yay!! :blob5: :blob8:

I mean... I'm using the Megaray 100w MVB. It's fairly new, I got it about two months ago. A tiny part of me is wondering if that has anything to do with it, but I've heard all about how it's supposed to be better and he was super duper happy under it until this recent funk.

I'm at home now so I can make a note of the brands, I forgot to do so earlier. The calcium I use is Jurassi-Cal without D3. His vitamins are Zoo Med Reptivite also without D3. I heard the Megaray helps him to make his own, so is that OK? I'll definitely cut back on the vitamins and up the calcium a little bit. Thanks! :D

He's only been pooping about once a week, when I give him his bath (bath-time almost never fails, though lately it's been a bit more tricky :( ). His last one was on Saturday, it looked a bit soft to me even in the water and some of it fell apart even as he pooped. Other than that it looked good. The urate -looked- no softer or harder than usual and didn't appear discolored. It was a pretty thick poop though! I'd think he'd be ravenous after it but he still just doesn't show any interest in his food whatsoever. :(

Hope I answered everything okay. I'm more than willing to answer more questions!

OH! And his age, I don't know how old he was when I got him but I was wagering on about 3-6 months old, so that would make him around 1 and a half to two years, probably right in the middle of there somewhere. Sorry I can't be more accurate. :( Here's a picture of him shortly after we got him, on March 3rd of 2008 when he was still Little Dude.

March32008.jpg


I don't know if that'll help determine his age or anything. :p Sorry again I can't be more accurate, I'm horrible with math also so that's probably no help either. :oops:
 

athenacp

Extreme Poster
Hmmmm, I don't know what part of Penns you're in, but Digger has been exactly the way you've been describing for about 2 weeks now and we're thinking with the cooler weather we had here he might be starting his brumation tactics again, but I think the next poop I get from him I'll probably take it to the vet to make sure. (even with the 96 we had yesterday, it didn't matter,sigh)

Maybe get a fecal to take to the vet just to make sure he's ok? If he's about that age he might be starting to brumate...there's a great article about brumation here:

http://www.beardeddragon.org/articles/brumation/

That's the only thing I could think of
 

Rachella

Juvie Member
Original Poster
I thought it might've been brumation too, but other than the lack of appetite and (now) slightly decreased activity they're aren't any other signs to point to it. :(

I did have a little success just now though, I managed to coax him into eating about 3 ml of squash baby food. I set him down when he started getting restless next to a bowl full of greens and he is just not interested in them, doesn't even look at them! Arrgh!

How long can he go like this? If I manage to keep giving him baby food, what's a healthy amount for him to eat per day?

I ordered some (shudder) dubia roaches from jolleys136 (brandon) who was nice enough to send me just a few so I could try them and see if I can handle them. MAYBE they'll get Dude interested, since he's never had them before. If that doesn't work I'm going to try his absolute favorite, the one thing he -always- runs to the moment he sees them --- hornworms! If those don't work then I'm getting a fecal done and freaking out. :(
 

Rachella

Juvie Member
Original Poster
I got to thinking maybe because his tank is a bit dark on one end he was getting lazy because of it. So I went out and bought another light fixture. It's a clamp-on light fixture fixed on the back of his tank and I put a 13w coil regular house bulb type deal in it, the flourescent coil type. Now, I know the UVB coils are a bad idea, but what about regular bulbs? The temperature for it on the box said 6500k daylight and it is BRIGHT, is this too bright, or what?

It's been in there for about an hour nnow and Dude is already looking a lot more perkier. His colors are the lightest they've been in over a week and he definitely looks more alert and awake than he did previously. So while this is obviously good news, I just want to make sure the light will be an OK addition and not hurt him. I'm worried about it's brightness and if I should be worried about him getting any sort of eye trouble with it?
 

Rachella

Juvie Member
Original Poster
OK!

So, the light is still in there, I haven't been able to find out if I should remove it or not.

Dude has gone into his hidey hole place yesterday. He dug and dug and dug and dug like a madman. He sometimes likes to kick up the sand in his tank but he was a master of digging for over an hour yesterday and finally curled up with his head on a sand pillow and fell asleep. This morning he is still in there, awake but not looking to move anytime soon.

So could he be brumating? It was suggested before... but I'm worried I may be mistaking brumating for being ill. He ate a single piece of green the day we installed the light for brightness but has still yet to eat anything substantial.

How do I tell if he's sick or brumating? :x Should I try and bug him out of his hole and see what happens?
 

Drache613

BD.org Sicko
Staff member
Moderator
Hello,

You could dig him out of his little hide from time to time, to see if you can interest him in basking for a little while. Try to get a fecal done on him, & if it comes out clean, then it is fine to let him sleep for awhile.
I have one who is trying to brumate, but I told him that he couldn't & am continually digging him off of the bottom of his tank to put him back under his Megaray. He is still eating though & does spend some time under it, so, I am trying to put him off of brumation for another month at least.
So, it does happen earlier in some than in others. I don't know why, but most do start slowing down in August to September timeframe.

Tracie
 

zebraflavencs

Extreme Poster
This sounds so much like what I have been through this week with Orion, who isn't eating, isn't basking, and has slept the full day away, with the Mega on.
Fecal clear, so I guess sleep away 'Rion dear....
Janie. oh ! Did it again.. rhymed.
 

Rachella

Juvie Member
Original Poster
OK, I will keep a close eye on him. With his next poop I'm going to try and get a fecal done. I'll see what his activity is like tomorrow and see if I can goad him into eating something. The roaches should be here within the next couple of days, so I'll see if he'd be interested in those also.

Hopefully this is just brumation. If it is that's kind of really interesting, as he's never done this before and this'll be my first time watching a beardie go through it, and hopefully when he comes out he'll be all the better. :) I just hope that if this is the case I can keep myself from getting too worried or paranoid about everything.

Thanks for all the advice! I'll try and keep this updated if anything happens.
 

Drache613

BD.org Sicko
Staff member
Moderator
Hello,

I hope that is all it is, also. Just try to get him to eat something so you can get a fecal out of him to get tested. That is all you can do, & try to encourage him to bask more & bribe him with food! :D
Definitely keep us posted & especially if anything out of the ordinary starts to happen so we can catch a problem, early.

Tracie
 
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