Bloodline Registration - Pedigrees - Why Not?

[greathouseFarm]

Hey Everyone,
I was reading an interesting article/discussion somewhere about how all the beardie morphs and colors got started. How easily one could mate two dragons that are closely related etc... I breed Lionhead rabbits as a hobby which was how my son convinced me that I needed to help him work with bearded dragons. I mean he really had to twist my arm :wink:

Anyway I know from my experience with rabbits that I always check bloodlines on a potential breeder before I bring it home. You never know they can come from two different rabbitry's on opposite ends of the US and have the same parents or grandparents. I am wondering why bearded dragon breeders don't provide their customers with a Pedigree. I actually got one from Sunshine Dragons that came from Rick & Kandy Milspaugh, hand signed by him with at least one end of the bloodline. I just think it would be great for the Bearded Dragon world as a whole to know who, what color! etc.. One great advantage is that it also gives credit where credit is due. (not to mention increase probability of morphs and decrease genetic problems) Thoughts?

 

[GemstoneDragons]

I think it is a good idea although you would only be taking the breeders word that it was correct.

 

[TheWolfmanTom]

At this point in time there are just to many backyard breeders that are just trying to make a fast buck. I thought of doing the pedegree thing when I 1st started officially breeding, and I may consider it again down the road. The thing I dont like about them is there is no policing to keep them legit. I can theoreticly put anything on them and you as the buyer just have to take my word for it. Think of how many morphs you see with supossedly german giant lines in them. I have seen dragons that havent been next to a GG let alone have the actual genetics....lol. But there would be someone handing out a pedegree with GG on the line and it will make the buyer believe it just that much harder because its in print. If this doesnt make sense hit me up after my coffee......lol

 

[greathouseFarm]

Well it is just your word but there could be a registry like Cat Fanciers Assoc. has. But as with rabbits there are also many backyard breeders who don't know what they are breeding but they don't/can't supply a pedigree and wouldn't command the same kind of pricing either. And like you said when I see a purebred Lionhead Rabbit I know it. So just like in your example of the GG obviously not being true - you have to use your best judgement. I just think there's so much confusion out there. Your right you can't stop people from faking them but there would be honor amongst breeders. And those people who did not want to be up front could choose not to provide pedigrees or risk getting caught faking them. It would be nice if after I spent a small fortune on our Bloodbank dragon that we at least had the paper to prove it. I think it would also help with the confusion of the actual genetics i.e. this is a "red phase hypo" and "ABC breeder" bred it etc...

 

[TheWolfmanTom]

You now have me wondering how feasable this would be to execute. The trouble is the lines are sooooooooooooo criss crossed it would be like trying to untagle a ball of yarn that cats played with for 10 years....lol

 

[greathouseFarm]

Hahaha! Ya I would imagine... I was more suggesting it as a starting point from here. Where it became more expected to receive a pedigree or paperwork from a high quality breeder. A sign of quality if you will. At the bottom of all our rabbit pedigrees we write "I hereby certify this pedigree is correct to the best of my knowledge, ability and belief" We are registered as a breeder but that is all we are required to do. I would imagine that most breeders know at least 2 generations of their own stock anyway. If enough people started doing it than I think it would catch on and become something you could expect. Like the one I got from Milspaugh wasn't complete on one side but it sure made me happy! The only thing it lacked was actual genetic description.

 

[GemstoneDragons]

The trouble with that is it doesn't signify honour amongst breeders from my experiance.

I had my first 2 beardies from a breeder well known here in the UK complete with Pedigree/Certificates, it wasn't until i had problems with reoccuring prolapses, reoccuring eye infections leading to blindness and stunted growth in both beardies and after getting no help from the breeder asked for help elsewhere did i find they had a reputation but nobody would say so in public to warn others.

Since then i have found several trusted breeders who also give out Pedigree/Certificates.

I have no idea how we could get around the above but would love to try if anyone can come up with any ideas.

 

[TheWolfmanTom]

I know I trace my bloodlines as far back as I can. On Pumkin, DJ, Gemini, Selene, and Dude, I can go back min 2 generations and in some 3. Now as time goes on I will be able to track that line going foward with no problem. Bottom line a breeder can still put down whatever He wants on a paper and call it a pedegree. Its a shame really, but It just comes down to honesty and integrity. Thats one of the reasons I allow potential buyers into my home to pick up dragons. I can put anything on paper or on the site, BUT I cant fake what they see with thier own eyes. I take alot of pride on the animals I sell and produce.

 

[GemstoneDragons]

The breeders i have here (putting my first pair together next weekend) i have names and morph's of parents and grandparents as well as extras like the sizes of parents and what has parst been produced etc all except 1 dragon from Dachiu which i am trying to get hold of more info on.

What you are saying is that if all good breeders offered this information eventually the bad ones lying on paper would get caught out?

I will definately be looking into a more detailed picture pedigree instead of a basic parent and D.O.B only certificate.

If anyone can put Rob or Vikki @ Dachiu in contact with me that would be great, i've emailed twice but have no answer yet.

 

[TheWolfmanTom]

I have spoke to Vickie on several occasions. I know THEY are VERY busy. I would wait till monday. Thier operation is just huge...lol. I would call.
Unfortunatly, no matter howmuch record keeping anyone does it will never stop people from laying out a load of BS.
You know I have a 13 inch dwarf german giant for sale....lol

 

[GemstoneDragons]

Yeah i emailed a good few weeks back lol but will get my friend to ask for me next time she calls.

I am going to breed these ultra rare invisible beardies i have that can be housed in 2ft vivs fully grown and don't need feeding at all

No seriously, i have a few projects planned but will only be breeding 1/2 girls to further my own lines per year so keeping track will be easy and providing extra information with babies sold not so hard for me as it is with others.

 

[greathouseFarm]

Well I know that actually putting some sort of data registry in place would be pretty much impossible at this point. But I suppose that the cat world & rabbit world had to start somewhere. I wouldn't mind paying my dues every year to a "national bearded dragon organization" so that I could have a membership as a valid breeder and people would feel confident when they purchased a baby from me with paperwork that it was legit. The world is always going to have it's bootleggers that try to pass apples off as oranges. I just would like to have pedigrees for my own purposes to have a better idea of what kind of morphs I could expect and definitely to keep my bloodlines properly distant. I guess ten yrs from now we may find things have totally changed as they have in the last 10. I will make mine with one empty side until a couple of years from now I will have them filled in!