Blood in stool

[SkeptiBee]

Today when I was bathing Hermes he passed a poop in the tub with a fair amount of blood. The quantity seemed on par like you pricked your finger with a pin and a small amount formed near the wound. Might not seem like a lot to a human, but for a small animal like beardies that seems like a lot to me. The poop itself was firm, with urates, so I don't think it's a parasite. I just had a fecal done just under a month ago for another issue, which the results came back negative. I thought his lethargy then was due to hibernation issues which, not a week later, he was super active, wanting out of his viv, running around. This last week he has just crashed. He didn't even approach the glass to be let out. He simply stayed in his hide and only at my interference has he come out of his cage.

He pooped two days ago, and I could have sworn I saw a dabble of pink as he was dragging himself away from his pile. But the carpet color threw it off so I thought it was the normal fluid that would be excreted upon pooping.

Does it sound like there could be a kidney problem?

Currently his viv is set up: Basking Spot: 101 Cool Side: 80
Reptisun 10 Tube (that I just replaced)
He gets a multi-vitamin once a week, calcium power dusted food 3 times.

Currently he's sitting on my chest, looking around, but his body just is so limp otherwise. And he occasionally compresses his sides like he's uncomfortable. :\

 

[KairaandTaz08]

Hi there,

I'm not entirely sure what could be going on, but want to ask a few more questions and get this bumped up, too.

How old is he? Is the blood in the feces (brown part) or in the urates (white)? Or are you able to tell at all? I guess, where exactly are you seeing the blood? I understand the water and carpet may hinder determining a bit, but it'll help the more experienced on here to know where it may be. Does it appear to be "mixed" in or around the bowel movement?

His behavior with the blood in the bowel movement is concerning...can you get him to a reptile vet?
Is he black-bearding, have a dark chest/severely stress-marked belly, or is his tail darker than normal? These are all signs of pain/discomfort.

It could be kidney related, but it depends on where the blood is coming from/at. I am thinking this may be more of the stomach/intestines, but I could be wrong.

I do suggest a vet though. But also wanted to get this more attention.

I hope some others can help more.

Abi

 

[SkeptiBee]

Honestly, I'm not too sure on his age but I think he's around 2 years old. The guy who I bought him from had him for at least a year and a half and I've had him since January. The blood wasn't mixed, as far as I could tell, with his stool. It all came out in a blob after he excreted his waste but the bath water dissolved it pretty quickly. He isn't black bearding, but his overall color is a lot darker than usual. He almost always has stress marks on him and only when I let him out of his cage to run around will he calm down and turn very light. Last night, even though I wrapped him in his blanket and let him sleep on me, he was still very dark. As of this morning there was no change.

Yes, I can get him to the vet. I'm going to schedule an appointment today and see if I cannot get him in late today or tomorrow.

 

[SkeptiBee]

Minor update: I was able to get him into the vet yesterday afternoon. Aside from wanting to do another fecal, I had the vet draw some blood and sent to the lab just to rule out any problems with his kidneys or anything else. She seems to think that he just might be suffering from a calcium deficiency.

One of the things we discussed was that the calcium supplements off the store shelves aren't regulated so we don't technically know what is in them. For all we know, the supplements we give them might have little nutritional worth or none at all. The lab results are due in later today, and if they look good I'll be picking up some liquid calcium to administer to get his levels back up.

Let me tell you, he was not a happy camper getting the blood work done! They initially had him burrito wrapped on the table but he managed to half wriggle, half claw, his way out of it. They had to resort of wrapping his upper body with the towel folded over his head instead, butt and legs hanging free as he was flipped onto his back. When it was all done, they set him on the exam table and pulled the towel off, and he was the most shocking lemon yellow. It was like all his dark colors went straight to making his black beard. The staff thought he looked gorgeous in his angry mood so they took pictures and planned to post it to their Facebook page.

 

[Drache613]

Hello,

Poor guy, I am sure he didn't like having blood drawn. Have you seen the size of the needle that they use to draw blood? They draw it out of the caudal vein so it is a bit tough. No wonder he had such a black beard, burrito wrapping him then putting him on his back. They can't breathe well on their backs so that didn't help, either.
Hopefully his kidneys are fine but the blood tests should help to determine calcium levels, too.
Which UVB light are you using & how old is it?
Which calcium powder had you been using?

Is he eating very well right now?
The blood was probably from him straining a little bit, which can be caused from weak GI muscles due to low calcium levels. The GI tract muscles operate off of calcium ions primarily so hypocalcemia can wreak havoc on the system.
Try giving some extra oral fluids if you can, to help out in case he may be a little dehydrated, too.

Let us know how he is doing.

Tracie

 

[SkeptiBee]

Thanks Tracie, I certanly will keep this up to date.

The vet was nice enough to let me watch them do the blood draw so, yes, I did see the needle size. I know what it feels like to have a giant needle poking you since I donated some blood earlier this week. Totally understood when he started wriggling around a bit but he calmed down very quickly and the process didn't take long. I think he was more in shock that he had a towel around his body and head than anything.

The vet didn't really push me for the blood work either but I had her do it anyway. If there is nothing wrong than I'll be relieved and Hermes will have something on record as a baseline for his bloodwork. My vet wanted to start him on a liquid calcium supplement when I took him in the first time. His former caretakers didn't have the right set up for him and Hermes was resting his back legs a lot more than she wanted him too (as in he'd sit down rather than fully stand when idle). Now that I know my adjustments haven't been helping much, we can proceed with better supplement treatment.

I'm just trying to figure out how I'll give him this. Prying open his mouth to give him a syringe? Drip it off his snout? His response to fluids dripping on his nose is to clamp his jaws tighter, not lick. If anyone has pointers on getting stubborn dragons to drink fluid I'd be grateful. I do bath him 3 times a week but I wonder just how vent absorbed water is effective in hydrating reptiles as it's not passing or being absorbed in the intestinal tract.

I mentioned that I had a ReptiSun Tube 10.0 in his tank. It's 24" and I just bought it earlier this month. So it should be okay. The calcium powder I've been giving him has been that ReptiCal stuff with the D3. He gets it 3 times per week with his live feeders along with the multivitamins (which is only once a week).

When I got home from work yesterday he had ate all of his salad. But that was also from him barely eating anything since Monday. Even his live food went ignored when I offered it. All he's done is stay in his hide and sleep. The vet is on the same track as you though. Because the poo he passed Tuesday was so massive, his straining must have agitated his body and the blood resulted. When I get the lab results back, I'll be sure to update.

UPDATE:
I got off the phone with the vet not long ago and she said his blood work looked good. All of this calcium levels were the range they should be, but she still recommended I switch from the powder to the liquid calcium supplement. I plan on going and getting some tomorrow. Next is figuring out how I'm going to give it to him. lol Since he isn't eating a whole lot, and his once favorite foods are snubbed, I'm not sure how I'm going to get him to take his medicine.

 

[KairaandTaz08]

Hi again,

Glad Tracie's watching this one .
I bet she'll have a few more ideas about the blood in the bowel movement even with the calcium in normal ranges. Maybe it's from some damage before you got him? I'm throwing out a guess there.

Poor guy with the trouble getting the blood . Glad it came back normal though.
Kidneys are also ruled out by the blood test and symptoms so far, I'm guessing??

Maybe a probiotic would help overall, with everything he's going through, too? I use Bene-bac, it's a gel and I find the gel to be easier and less messy.

There's the spatula (soft plastic one) method...using it to gently open the mouth (less damaging to him if he tries to clamp down on it) just enough to get the liquid calcium in there, maybe?
My vet uses the "pulling on the beard gently" method, but I'm not a fan of that one.
There isn't any way to trick him a bit? Maybe some baby food would taste yummy enough for him to open his mouth??
Kaira is a pro at hand-feeding so I don't have much experience with the tough ones :? .

Not sure if that offered any helpful ideas. :?
I'm sure Tracie will be able to help more all around, though.

Hope he has a better night tonight

Abi

 

[Esther19]

You might try dribbling some baby food squash over her lips. You could syringe the meds then when he started to lick. Mine will lick a greens slurry, as well. Pop the greens in a blender, then strain it so it will go through the syringe better. Good luck!

 

[SkeptiBee]

Well, this was easier than I anticipated. I went and bought the squash baby food, partially filled a syringe, then dripped some onto his nose. The last time I saw him eat something fast was when he tasted his first raspberry! So I got the right CC of calcium then mixed it with some of the baby food, then administered it that way. Ate it all up! So I think we have a instant winner. lol

Hermes has come a long way from when I got him back in January. His former owner just fed him iceberg lettuce and wondered why his poop was just a liquid mess. He was getting his calcium powder with the sparse crickets he was fed but they were using the coil UVB lights so I doubt he was processing his nutrients properly. This site was and has been so helpful!

 

[Drache613]

Hello,

Great job, I am happy he loved the food you got into him & at least it was easy.
As Abi suggested, the spatula method works well though.
Did he mind the calcium?

Were the urates unusually long for him? If you have a copy of the blood test results you could send them to me that would be great.
He could have some level of weakened GI muscles from poor previous care. Also, while regular calcium tests are good ionized calcium tests reveal the 25Hydroxy levels which reveal stored D3 which just shows what his bones & body are storing outside of just blood serum levels.
I agree, he may process liquid calcium more efficiently than powdered calcium right now. It is absorbed more quickly.

Keep us posted on him.
Tracie

 

[SkeptiBee]

Yes he seemed to be okay with the calcium. I think as long as their is some other taste he likes, he will still eat it, but one day is hard to tell. I'll see how he responds this week and can adjust according to his response. The squash was pretty diluted in the syringe I gave him yesterday.

This last week his urates have been long and thin, sometimes discolored in an orange, sometimes partially discolored, sometimes not. It's just so sporadic. One day he'll be super active, the next 5 days he crashes and only lays in his hide and barely eats anything. He used to have all these foods he'd love to eat before all this happened, now? Won't even touch them and sticks to his basic greens. I'm utterly at a loss as to what has happened to him. :/

I'll give the vet clinic tomorrow a call and will request a copy of his results.

 

[SkeptiBee]

Okay a bit of an update. The liquid calcium hasn't really done much for improving things. The vet already contacted me a while ago about this, but prior to us talking, I discovered something new. A few days before I iwass due to update the vet, I began to notice when I picked Hermes up he would twitch his head. It was a quick, rapid twitch, not a head bob. Not knowing where it was coming from, it took me a while to determine any pressure around or near the underside of his left hind leg where his femur met into his hip socket would trigger the twitch. To me, it signaled some form of discomfort or pain response.

When the vet called to inquire about the calcium treatment, I filled her in on this new development. She prescribed him MetaCam about a week ago and it seems to be helping but in only a small way. When I take him out of his viv, he does crawl around more so than usual and generally appears more alert. He camped out on my shoulder nearly all evening last night when I got home from work.

It has gotten frustrating trying to give him medication though. He's not licking food from syringe feeding, now he flicks his head and it splashes everywhere. Forcing him to drink it via pinning him down does work, but now he's become very sensitive when I approach his face: squeezing his eyes closed, shying away from any touch... I'm worried that he's associating my forced medicine administering with further pain but that might be my own mind filling that in. Still, I don't want to look like a bully to him. :/

Anyway, the vet called me yesterday to find out if the pain relief was helping and while I said it was helping marginally, he's still not back 100%. She's going to keep him on the pain relievers for another week while she consults some info and documentation. I think the next visit I'm going to ask for an X-ray. I was looking at Hermes last night to see if I could locate anything visual, maybe an infected femoral pore or some form of lump, but nothing looks out of place. So an X-ray might be the next option. If there isn't anything abnormal there, I'm at a loss. I just want my little buddy back.

 

[Esther19]

I'm sorry he isn't improving much for you yet. Hang in there!