Black scales on dragons beard?

[SpyroNessie]

Hello
My two year old male dragon Spyro has been getting some black spots on his beard and I'm getting worried. They started as some small grey spots but have darkened and become larger. Nothing in his habitat has changed, he does have a female companion, Nessie, who's decided to act more dominant lately. There's also another thing that I'm not sure whether it's a problem or not, but he almost seems thin? I looked it up and saw that some dragons are just slimmer but he almost looked disfigured to me... like his spine is crooked and he is very small. Him and Nessie are both very good eaters so I'm not sure what the problem could be, I'm mostly worried about the beard because his shape hasn't changed since I got him, any help is greatly appreciated! Thank you!

 

[EllenD]

Can you post some photos of him and the enclosure?

How long have they been housed together? The reason I'm asking is that I'm sure you know that bearded dragons are solitary animals naturally when they live in the wild, they are not social animals at all. Males and females come together only long enough to mate, then they separate, females lay eggs and leave, babies hatch and separate. So whenever bearded dragons are housed together (particularly two males or a male and a female) 99% of the time what happens is one dragon does very well, grows and develops normally, and is healthy, while the other dragon slowly over time stops growing, loses weight, becomes sick, and fails to thrive. This is due to the healthy dragon dominating the other dragon, and they dominate them in ever way, not just food. The submissive dragon is under tremendous stress 24/7 and the dominate dragon gets the best of everything, basking spots, temperature spots, sleeping spots, everything. Some people think it's cute when one sleeps on or next to the other one, but it's actually not cute at all, it's all about dominance, everything they do is about dominance. And unfortunately what is eventually going to happen with a male and a female (I don't know how old they each are) but the male typically breeds the female literally to death. He just breeds her over and over and over because she can't get away, until she's either dead or basically "used up". Sometimes if the male is trying to breed her to death and exert his dominance over her, the female actually gets very aggressive and does everything she can to hurt him, until one day someone is seriously injured or killed. So if he is getting skinny, most likely you need to separate them asap. Honestly you should never ever keep a male and a female together, breeders don't ever do this, they are just put together long enough to mate once, supervised, and then they are immediately separated. So if you're sure you have a male and a female you need to separate them. If they are two males you need to separate them. And if they are two females and one is thriving and the other is losing weight, or they ever show any bit of aggression, you need to separate them.

 

[SpyroNessie]

Thank you so much for your reply, I actually purchased them to breed for my science class but they never did, the place where I got them told me to just house them together until they did so unless they became aggressive. They are both approximately two years old and have been housed together for about a year. The female when I purchased them showed signs of submission (arm waving) and after that they never did much, there was no head bobbing, no waving or anything. They have slept together but it's never just one who seems to be taking charge, they'll both switch it up by either laying on top of each other or near each other. Is it weird that it's the female who's showing the signs of dominance? I had them sexed when I bought them. And it's only just recently that she's been trying to be dominant and he's doing nothing about it. He'll just sit there while she's acting crazy or walk away. And he's never tried to breed with her that I've seen, but I'm not always home. Could this have something to do with his black scales as well?

 

[EllenD]

Well it's definitely time to separate them ASAP. Sometimes they are fine for a while, or rather they appear to be fine for a while, but if they are truly a male and a female both over 2 years old and they aren't head bobbing, black bearding, or breeding, and they are sleeping on top of each other, he is so stressed out right now he's either not eating or he's physically ill. He's extremely thin, to the point he looks very unhealthy, especially for a 2+ year old male. It's not odd at all that the female is the dominate one, especially if she's bigger than he is, or it's possible he was sickly or weak and she took advantage of it. Either way, their breeder should have never, ever, ever told you to house a male and female together! They know better than that, they just wanted to sell you two dragons, because there is no way they house their males and females together. Under normal circumstances if they were both healthy and of normal size there would have been breeding, aggression, injuries, possibly a death by now. But it's obvious just by looking at the poor guy that he's stressed out and needs to be by himself from now on. It's best if they never even see each other again, and you need to remove her and allow him to stay in his current enclosure, he's way to sickly and stressed to deal with relocation stress too. She can handle it. If I were you I would get a big plastic tub and a second clamp lamp and a second basking bulb, and put her in it tomorrow. She can go without a UVB light for up to a week without issues, he can't. And you need to stack them or keep them in different rooms from now on so they can't see each other anymore, if they can the male will continue to stress and not eat. This isn't uncommon to see or hear about, it's just sad and frustrating. It's not uncommon for breeders or pet stores to sell 2 at a time and tell the buyer that they can live together, not even mentioning the fact that they're naturally solitary reptiles and the only bearded dragons that have ever really been housed together successfully are multiple females, and even that doesn't work out often. So please, get her out of that tank, out of his sight, and give him some special attention, lots of good food (I'd actually offer him more live bugs than he usually gets, he needs the protein, he's really thin and not well looking)...

As far as his beard, the grey spots look exactly like shed, but as far as the black spots I can't see them well enough to tell...are the black and grey areas raised or like "growths" or skin hanging or growing off his beard, or are they simply coloration changes? I can't tell, I mean if I could see him up close it wouldn't surprise me if they were bites or scratches from the female, but it doesn't look like that. If you can describe what the spots are like a bit more in detail, or maybe get some close ups it would help. Like I said, the light grey spots appear to be shed (shed often gets stuck on their beards, it's a bit weird for them to shed that area), but the black spots I'm not seeing well enough to even guess at this point...are you sure they are actually black and not very dark red dried blood?

 

[Savora]

Your beardie might be exhibiting symptoms of MBD by having a crooked spine. What is your UVB lighting setup? (What is the type of UVB light you have--coil, fluorescent tube, or MVB? What brand is the UVB light? Where is it located in the tank setup? Does its fixture have a mesh, plastic, or glass covering over it?)

Also, sometimes when the beard scales get damaged they turn black until they heal. I hypothesize that the other beardie is being a bully, and nipping at their mouth while you aren't supervising them. This could explain why one is thinner than the other: stealing food, stealing basking spots, being stressed around the other one, etc.

I'm sorry about your beardie's issues though. Poor things looks cute regardless. I hope his issues can be resolved soon. Keep us updated!

 

[EllenD]

Out of curiosity, who sexed the two dragons for you? Was it the same breeder that sold them to you? i was just thinking about it, and honestly it wouldn't surprise me if you have 2 females that are starting to show dominance/submissive and aggressive behavior. It's odd to me that a male and female housed together don't even show behaviors like the male black bearding and head bobbing. Sometimes they won't breed, but 9 times out of 10 the male will still catch the female and breed her over and over again...unless he does have a serious illness like MBD, I didn't even catch the part where you said his spine was crooked, I apologize for that...I saw how thin he was and then started typing my response.

If he does also have MBD, it doesn't necessarily mean your UVB lighting is inadequate or mounted improperly or at the wrong distance, though that obviously could very well be the case. However, a lot of times when you house 2 dragons together, one so dominates the other that they literally "hog" all the best basking spots purposely, meaning she is always sitting in the basking spot closest to the UVB or in the spot that gets the best UVB and best temps, etc., robbing him of any UVB at all, especially if you're not using a long, tube UVB with a reflector to fill the enclosure with UVB light, and rather using a compact or coil UVB light that basically focuses the UVB light in only one spot, right directly under the bulb, so the femaie easily hogs that spot. Typically a crooked spine is a sign of MBD unfortunately. Was he like that when you got him, or has that developed over time since you've had them? Either way, that's a very important reason that you absolutely must separate them immediately and make sure that they both have adequate UVB tubes mounted correctly and within the correct distances of the basking spot, and that you replace them once every 6 months or a year, depending on what UVB lights you have. If she doesn't show any signs of MBD she can certainly go without a UVB tube for a week or so while you get her her own stuff, unfortunately though you absolutely must buy 2 of everything and set them up stacked or in different rooms. He's suffered for a long while now and he needs special attention and his own space. It's not your fault, you were given horrible advice and directions by a totally unscrupulous breeder...

 

[SpyroNessie]

That's their setup currently, also yes it was the breeder who sexed them for me. I got them at a local reptile store. I would love to figure out a stacking system for them asap and get him better poor guy I might take them to a different reptile store that I know will help me with their sex if it is wrong. Also with his black spots they look like scales that are falling off with black beneath them, definitely does not look like blood to me. I believe all my lights are zoomed except one that I recently replaced.. couldn't find the label for it unfortunately, I have a coil, a ceramic and a regular looking bulb in their tank. Does anyone have a good stack system they could recommend? Also thank you all so much for your responses it feels good just to know what's going on and that it can be fixed! My camera won't focus on his face that was the best pic I could get of the spots close up. I also thought it was weird that he never head bobbed or anything because in the beginning I believe she was being submissive and he didn't care, I've only seen his beard go black like once and that was just because someone was vacuuming.

 

[Savora]

The gender isn't super important for them, but you can try to sex them yourself if you google "bearded dragon flashlight sexing." It's somewhat easy to tell when they're adults.

The beard scales act sorta like TV pixels: when they're damaged, their connection to what "color" they should be is severed, therefore they turn black. This is temporary until they heal and new beard scales are grown. I think it's likely that your boy dragon is being nipped and bitten without your supervision--unless maybe he recently had a fall and scraped himself?

I think the most important thing to do right now is separate them, if you have access to another tank. I would put the healthy (girl) beardie in the separate tank, because the unhealthy (boy) one needs the special attention. It's okay if the other tank is smaller for now, it's only temporary. Remember that the smallest space recommended for an adult beardie is a 40 gallon breeder tank.

It's also not immediately necessary that they're stacked right now, just that they're in separate tanks. You can cover the side of the tank where they can see each other. However, if you google "foster and smith aquarium stand," they have the cheapest stacked aquarium stand I've seen online.

Lastly, and I'm sorry about this information, but your UVB light isn't quite adequate for a bearded dragon. As a desert dweller, beardies need constant strong UVB exposure. The bulbs that best achieve this are the ReptiSun 10.0 T8 or T5, and the Arcadia 12% T8 or T5. If you live in America, you will want the ReptiSun. The ReptiSun 10.0 T5 can be placed on top of the mesh screen, as it's strong enough to penetrate that--mesh screens block out 30%-50% of the UVB output. All of these bulbs are long fluorescent tubes and need a fixture to fit either the T8 or the T5 bulb, whichever you choose to get.

Natural sunlight has very strong UVB, though glass and plastic filters out 100% of the UVB of the sun. I would be taking your beardies out in the sun as often as I could. Also, feeding calcium with D3 might help in your case.

I'm sorry about your situation. I hope you get everything all sorted out soon.

 

[EllenD]

Beat me to it, your UVB needs upgraded ASAP, and they'll both need that. And yes, I think he's being bitten as well. Please get her out of that enclosure immediately...

Also, just to help you out, we can easily sex both dragons for you. All you need to do is take a picture of each of them with their tails arched as far over their backs as you can get them, like a really happy dog, so the skin on the underside of their tails is taught and is visible. Then just take a photo of each of their vent areas and the area on the underside of their tails right above their vents. We can tell you the sex of each directly then...

 

[Savora]

I should add that getting a Mercury vapor bulb (MVB) might be cheaper than getting new ReptiSun/Arcadia UVB bulbs and fixtures. I personally don't have experience with using MVBs, but the PowerSun and MegaRay are reputable brands. I'm NOT certain about this, but I think that MVB's also require being unobstructed by a mesh screentop.

MVB's can screw directly into the dome fixtures you currently have, and they produce both lots of heat and lots of UVB. Make sure you monitor that their basking area isn't too hot when using one of these.