Bioactive tank? Substrate

[Stres]

I think that stuff is a high impaction risk.... and is nothing like the soils bearded dragons live on in their natural range.

Hi kingofnobbys whilst im aware from your posts that your not an advocate of bioactive setups for beardies I'm sure you have heard or come across Arcadia lighting which seems to be rated as one of the top two companies for reptile lighting.
http://www.arcadiareptile.com

They are a company that bases all products on natural re-creation from food/supplements to substrate.
I personally doubt (but could be wrong) that a company with a good reputation would recommend this type of substrate for beardies, especially if they thought it would put them at a higher risk of impaction than say using a garden centre soil that is only sterilised and lime free which is what many bioactive setups use.

With the sterilized garden centre soil you have to spend hours sifting it to remove small stones, broken pieces of tree Etc which is one of the reasons iv used this.

Iv seen many other people use and recommend this substrate for beardies in bioactive setups, but will do further research to make sure.

 

[cygnus]

I've seen a lot of people use that and a lot use a soil/sand or soil/sand/clay mixture with no problems.

The inventor of the Arcadia EarthMix is very well respected within the reptile keeping community and knows his stuff.

The dragon's body creates a mucus coat around any pieces of substrate which cannot be digested so it can slide through easily. This is water intensive so hydration is very important.

kingofnobbys, you really should research bioactive substrates. It makes a lot of sense and all of the myths about impaction, humidity, etc are well explained. I took the bit about impaction from this document which 3magpie3 linked to in a previous post in this thread.
http://bdogroup.org/gencare/bioact/bioact.pdf

 

[Taterbug]

I’ve watched pepper spit out little bits of twig and leaf while eating a bug at the same time. I also had a dragon take a short fall onto his tile floor and suffer injuries requiring that him to be euthanized. Your milage may vary for either type of substrate.

The bagged soils look interesting and take the guesswork and effort out of substrate mixing, not sure about cost effective though. I’ve probaly 4-5 cubic feet of dirt in my dragon enclosure, another 3-4 each in my snake setups. That’s be like 10+ bags per enclosure. Would be tempting to use on the top layer though.

 

[3magpie3]

Designed for beardies and other arid reptiles iv never once found a single stone or stick in this stuff and when mixed with a bit of clay forms a nice compact substrate allowing the dragon to do its natural Behaviour like dig and burrow (somewhat) without falling to pieces. Arcadia seem to always be looking further into replicating lizards natural environments and supplements to provide the best for captive lizards and iv had zero issues so far using there products and they seem highly recommended in the u.k

Where do you get the clay?

Looks like Arcadia soils are not readily found in the US. The bioactive guy has a terra sahara mix...

Or I read about many people doing the topsoil/sand mix, however I don't hear about them sifting it.... hmm...

 

[Taterbug]

I did a mix of topsoil, sand, peat and oringally about 75% collected sandy loam soil. I don’t use any clay. I sifted mostly by hand to get big sticks, rocks and such out. You could make a sifting screen probably if you wanted. I like the consistency of the wild collected soil best but it came with too many hitchhikers (Beetles larvae and ants) for me to use again or recommend.

 

[MostBeast]

I'd like to give my input on this. I've had my beardie on bioactive for about 8 months now. Around month 2 or 3, you could really see things starting to balance out. The isopods and other cuc members quickly took care of my beardie's poop. He would poop in the afternoon, and it's gone in the morning (as I've noticed higher cuc activities at night). Unfortunately, you'll have to spot clean urates as those aren't eaten.

My guy's behavior is incredible now. He runs around, hunts members of the cuc, and even digs! I came home from work one day and he was about 2 inches under the soil. He slept there for about 2 days, then came out and was back to normal. I think it really just gives them so many options and so much stimulation.

I have what I think could be called a "jade plant". I think you'll have better luck if you look for something called portulacaria. You're gonna need an LED light over it though. Jungle dawn 13 watt has done well for me.

I want to state that your husbandry needs to be spot on if you want to do this. They will inevitably ingest substrate in their hunt, but if they have proper hydration and *higher* than normal recommended basking spots, they will be just fine. A dehydrated beardie with low temps (I'm talking 110F basking) will become impacted at some point. I spray/syringe drip my guy some water every 2 days. His basking spot hovers between 125-130F, but my cool side stays just under 80F.

I recommend Scott's topsoil mixed with sand, near 50/50 but it doesn't need to be exact. Just be sure that it holds tunnels when it's slightly damp. You don't need a drainage layer, as you shouldn't be dumping much water into this tank. You do need a lead layer to slow down evaporation and give your cuc something to eat and hide in.

If you have any questions, feel free to reach out. If you do it right, you will notice BIG changes!

 

[kingofnobbys]

I think that stuff is a high impaction risk.... and is nothing like the soils bearded dragons live on in their natural range.

Hi kingofnobbys whilst im aware from your posts that your not an advocate of bioactive setups for beardies I'm sure you have heard or come across Arcadia lighting which seems to be rated as one of the top two companies for reptile lighting.
http://www.arcadiareptile.com

They are a company that bases all products on natural re-creation from food/supplements to substrate.
I personally doubt (but could be wrong) that a company with a good reputation would recommend this type of substrate for beardies, especially if they thought it would put them at a higher risk of impaction than say using a garden centre soil that is only sterilised and lime free which is what many bioactive setups use.

With the sterilized garden centre soil you have to spend hours sifting it to remove small stones, broken pieces of tree Etc which is one of the reasons iv used this.

Iv seen many other people use and recommend this substrate for beardies in bioactive setups, but will do further research to make sure.

Like all these companies , their lighting division will be entirely different to the substrates division , and they will be interested in marketing products because they see a market and there is money to be made from these and they will not necessary have staff who have even seen the soils and habitat most reptiles live in naturally.

 

[Gormagon]

I feel that bioactive would be fine for snakes, frogs and, tropical lizards but, not for desert creatures. The desert is not as forgiving as tropical areas. Not as humid and, wouldn't support the creatures used in a bioactive setting.
The humidity would be my biggest concern because it promotes mold and, bacteria growth.
You can put your dragon on whatever you want, its your dragon but, I will continue to to do my non-particle substrate use and, recommendations.

 

[MostBeast]

I feel that bioactive would be fine for snakes, frogs and, tropical lizards but, not for desert creatures. The desert is not as forgiving as tropical areas. Not as humid and, wouldn't support the creatures used in a bioactive setting.
The humidity would be my biggest concern because it promotes mold and, bacteria growth.
You can put your dragon on whatever you want, its your dragon but, I will continue to to do my non-particle substrate use and, recommendations.

That's why you use isopods that can handle the conditions. Mold and fungus really only grow in humid conditions, and if they do grow for whatever reason, that's what the springtails are for.

 

[Gormagon]

Seems like a lot of trouble to go through (buying extra bugs, mixing this and that and, the impaction risk) just for aesthetics.
Yes, I too would want a cool looking viv but, not at the risk of my dragons health.
I am the cleanup crew! :lol: :lol:

 

[MostBeast]

Seems like a lot of trouble to go through (buying extra bugs, mixing this and that and, the impaction risk) just for aesthetics.
Yes, I too would want a cool looking viv but, not at the risk of my dragons health.

Aesthetics is just a bonus. It's incredibly stimulating for the dragons too! My guy's personality has changed so much from tile vs now. And you just get the bugs once lol. They reproduce on their own in the tank

 

[Taterbug]

I feel that bioactive would be fine for snakes, frogs and, tropical lizards but, not for desert creatures. The desert is not as forgiving as tropical areas. Not as humid and, wouldn't support the creatures used in a bioactive setting.
The humidity would be my biggest concern because it promotes mold and, bacteria growth.
You can put your dragon on whatever you want, its your dragon but, I will continue to to do my non-particle substrate use and, recommendations.

Feelings vs the facts are pretty different; if your setup is humid and damp and moldy it’s becuase you have it set up wrong. As I mentioned before I struggle more with my humid and temperate setup than my arid ones. I have isopods, roaches, worms and morio beetles breeding well enough in my dragon tank to use them to supplement my other tanks. I’ve only bought bugs for bioactive once and that was springtails for the humid setup since the wild ones I collect don’t like it that warm and humid.

While your other concerns are certainly valid depending on your opinions and risk tolerance... the humidity argument people keep using is blatantly false.

Health and enrichment are really deeply tied together. There are a few studies in other animals demonstrating that enrichment and enriching environments improve cognitive function, promote natural behaviors and result in less stress in a captive environment. There is a reason some species would simply die outright if kept like bearded dragons.

Keeping things clean and safe, and keeping the animal healthy aren’t always the same. Bioactive and naturalistic setups (you can get close without soil but it would be a pain) are much more the end game of husbandry than simply for aesthetics. Mostbeasts examples are great ones of how an enriching environment really makes for a happier inhabitant.

 

[3magpie3]

I feel that bioactive would be fine for snakes, frogs and, tropical lizards but, not for desert creatures. The desert is not as forgiving as tropical areas. Not as humid and, wouldn't support the creatures used in a bioactive setting.
The humidity would be my biggest concern because it promotes mold and, bacteria growth.
You can put your dragon on whatever you want, its your dragon but, I will continue to to do my non-particle substrate use and, recommendations.

Feelings vs the facts are pretty different; if your setup is humid and damp and moldy it’s becuase you have it set up wrong. As I mentioned before I struggle more with my humid and temperate setup than my arid ones. I have isopods, roaches, worms and morio beetles breeding well enough in my dragon tank to use them to supplement my other tanks. I’ve only bought bugs for bioactive once and that was springtails for the humid setup since the wild ones I collect don’t like it that warm and humid.

While your other concerns are certainly valid depending on your opinions and risk tolerance... the humidity argument people keep using is blatantly false.

Health and enrichment are really deeply tied together. There are a few studies in other animals demonstrating that enrichment and enriching environments improve cognitive function, promote natural behaviors and result in less stress in a captive environment. There is a reason some species would simply die outright if kept like bearded dragons.

Keeping things clean and safe, and keeping the animal healthy aren’t always the same. Bioactive and naturalistic setups (you can get close without soil but it would be a pain) are much more the end game of husbandry than simply for aesthetics. Mostbeasts examples are great ones of how an enriching environment really makes for a happier inhabitant.

Great post here.

They’re done studies on fish and enrichment related to stress as well. It doesn’t surprise me based on my experience but it’s nice to see some evidence backing up what you intuit.

Again, thanks for everyone for heir input. I have learned so much, and I’m really thankful to each of you.

Also, thanks for keeping it respectful. This can be a divisive topic in the beardie world, I’ve found!