Beginner help

[frenchfrie000]

Hey all,

Im am new to bearded dragons, im looking at getting one but want to make sure my tank is set up properly first so im certain i dont do any damage to the little guy.
I have a few questions so ill try make them nice and quick for you...

1. I found a light bulb at the pet shop that says on the box it emmits, heat, UVB and also UVA. Would this and a heat mat be sufficient in a 20gallon tank for a baby dragon???. or do i have to purchase a UVA and heat bulb separately. Its all soooooo confusing because i keep reading different things everywhere.

2. How close to the dragon does the lighting have to be. My tank is quite tall i think so how low down will i have to hang the lighting for the beardie to bask properly?

3. How many crickets per day does a dragon eat, roughly? and how can u tell if theyre still hungry? With vegies and greens like that, do you just put it in at feeding time? or should you have some there all the time for him to continuously nibble on whenever hes hungry?

sorry if these questions sound a bit silly....but ive never done this before and im really keen to use my tank for something other than fish!
Im from Australia so if u write any temps etc in F....let me know because ill need to convert them to Celcius hahahahha
Thankyou so much for your time!!!

 

[jbowers]

1. From the sounds of it, it sounds like a Mercury Vapour Bulb. These are very powerful and should be about 14" minimum from the dragon due to the high heat and uvb levels it emits. So for a 20 gallon tank that would be too much. Do you already have a 20 gallon tank? If not, get a 40 gallon. It's a waste of money buying a small one to start and a larger one when he gets older.

With regards to the UVB light, the easiest solution is to get a uvb strip bulb like a reptisun 10 or arcadia d3+ and then a normal household white globe for basking/heat. The cheapest good uvb i have found is from here http://www.petcityonline.net.au/details.asp?ItemID=830857008511&CatID=&MainID=Reptile

I've ordered 2 and they arrived fine.

2. All depends on a variety of factors. I think a 50 watt bulb would be more than enough to heat a 20 gallon. Just make sure the bulb is about 10" away from the basking spot.

3. My little guy has some eating problems so I cant be sure. Some days he eats only 4-10. Some days he has eaten about 40. Just make sure the crickets are no larger than the approximate size between his eyes, to be safe. People say to feed them for 15 minutes, just giving them as much as they will eat. Then after that take out whatever the dragon refuses. For a young one you want to do this twice a day. I personally just leave the greens in there from the moment he wakes up. My dragon almost never eats greens though. He's only about 7 months though and im pretty sure thats normal.

By the way, you want a basking temp of about 41-42 c for a young one at the hottest, highest part of the enclosure. Make sure you get a decent digital thermometer if you arent using a thermostat.

 

[Sj45]

I use a uvb florescent and a normal household bulb 150w for his basking spot.

The uvb light needs to be within 6-8" of him unless it's a mercury vapor bulb. The basking light can be at any distance as long as the basking spot is around 100-110F.

Mine eats about 10 crickets/day. He is 6 weeks old.

Scott

 

[Reven1337]

Sj45 for a dragon that young he should be eating about 5x that many...

The general rule for feeding is as many as they can eat and a 15 minute period 3 times a day (be prepared, they eat ALOT when they are young and it can get expensive).
The first meal of every day should be dusted with calcium 5 times a week and herpavite multi-vitamin 2 times per week (i do vitamins on sat and sun so its easy to remember).

When selecting your lighting please bear in mind that dragons live in a VERY BRIGHT natural environment, and as such you should try to recreate this. You can do this in many different ways. If you are using an MVB you could use a non-uvb 5000 kelvin florescent tube to brighten it up and provide some psuedo-natural light. I have also found a bulb at my local home depot that is only 6 watts but puts out 600 lumens (light intensity) and is rated at 6500 kalvin (color of light), which seems to be working great for my little guy. The closer you can mimic there natural environment the healthier and happier they will be.

Now for UVB lighting you have to understand the differences between whats avaliable.

Florescent tubes (do not use compact florescents ever), there are only 2 that are worth a damn, the others generally do more harm than good. The thing to remember is that with florescent tubes, all you are getting is UVB, you will need another light to provide a basking temperature of 105-110 for babys and juvies, 100-105 for adults (take these temps with a digital thermometer with a prob on the end, directly under the heat lamp). These bulbs NEED to be replaced every 6 months as there effectiveness diminishes. With these kind of bulbs you will also need phosphorus free calcium dust WITH d3. This will be what you dust 5 meals a week with.
The only 2 that are effective are:
Repti-SUN 10.0 (not repti-GLO 10.0)
Arcadia (this is what the people in the UK use, im in Canada and have no idea about this bulb)

The other UVB source is an MVB (mercury vapor bulb). Now with an MVB you are looking at heat, UVB, and d3. So with these you will not need another bulb in the tank. It is also important to note that MVBs should NOT be mounted on an angle, they need to be straight up and down, keep this in mind. These bulbs do cost a bit more, however they pay for themselves by only having to be replaced once every 12 months (aka they last 2x as long). With an MVB since they do provide a source of D3 you will need a calcium dust WITHOUT d3, once again this is what you will dust with 5 times a week. In this catagory again there is really only 2 trust worthy bulbs.
Mega-ray (i use this, as far as i know it is #1 best of any UVB source)
T-Rex active UV

As for the 20 gallon tank, if you have no bought it than that is good. It is a very small tank that will need to be replaced relatively soon (your dragon will grow fast). Get your self a 55 gal breeder, or better yet, build yourself a 2x2x4 enclosure, they are 120 gallon and will cost less than half of what an equivalent sized glass tank will. The reason a 20 gal is too small is because you need to create a temperature gradient, meaning having a hot and cool side to the tank so that your lizard can regulate his blood temperature. Ideally you are looking for around 105-110 basking temp, with an ambient air temp on the hot side of ~90. The cool side should be roughly 78-82 so your dragon can cool off if he is too warm. Please for these temps do not use dial thermometers or stick on strips, do yourself a favor and get all digitals, they are ALOT more accurate.

Also since you have a young one it is also important that you do not use ANY particle substrates (bedding). Young dragons tend to lick EVERYTHING and can ingest it while eating live feeders. If they get too much sand into there digestive tracks it can cause impaction, aka blockage. If impaction is severe than it can be fatal. Save yourself the headache and the worry and grab some tiles or some repti-carpet. Other acceptable alternatives include, non-adhesive self liner, news paper and paper towel.

If i forgot anything or if you have any questions please feel free to ask.

EDIT: Forgot to add, you should not leave water bowls in the tank as that will increase humidity which dragons are sensitive to. If humidity gets too high it can cause a respritory infection, which can cost an awful lot of money at the vets office. Also do not use heat mats or heated rocks with your dragon. Dragons absorb heat through the top of there body. They have a third eye ontop of there head that they use to detect heat, shade, and uvb. If the mat or rock malfunctions your dragon will not know and it can cause severe burns that have in the past resulted in trips to the vet (i havent heard of a fatality yet, but dont quote me on that).

ALL THE TEMPS ABOVE ARE IN NOT CELCIUS.

-Adam

 

[Reven1337]

Bump to make sure the "edits" are seen.

 

[frenchfrie000]

Wow guys....thankyou so much for that.

My tank is 20 inches tall and i have already bought the 100 watt MVB. They didnt have them in any smaller size and i though it would be better than having 2 bulbs as my tank is only 20 gallons. Does this mean the basking spot is going to be way too hot for the little guy? or will it be ok if i have the bulb sitting as high as possible. Will a thermostat help me to regulate the heat?
Danielle

 

[Buggsy]

Thermostats and dimmers connot be used on the MVB thay you have. To be honest if you already have the cage, i would returm the bulb and go with a reptiSUn tube and seperate basking light.


Or return the cage if you can and buy/build a bigger one.

You already have some really good advice here and its good your getting things sorted now before you get your baby!

Buggsy

 

[frenchfrie000]

OK ive decided im going to take back the bulb ive bought and swap it for a UVB tube and a standard basking light...hopefully the shop will let me exchange it!!.....
Its all alot clearer now...thankyou so much for your help guys!!!
one last question....what is the best way to find a list of breeders around sydney area?

 

[zebraflavencs]

I would also like to suggest for a flo UVB this:
The NEC T-10 "black light' Ultra. $14. Here is where you find that, almost at the bottom of the page.
http://www.herpshop.com.au/

Hope this helps !
Janie.

 

[Fal]

Hi folks, new here also but thought I'd add to the thread:

Reven1337 - Just wanted to point out that I use a Repti-SUN 10.0 in the UK They are quite common here now in reptile shops, or so I have found in my area, but they might be a recent edition to the UK, as I'm fairly new to all of this too, but it's nice to know the store gave me the correct strip according to you guys! Although I didn't know much at first, I have read up LOADS now and have had my beardie for just over 6weeks and he's doing great, it's so rewarding!

As for eating greens, he's about 2months old and eats loads of greens (well not compared to the amount of crickets he eats, approx 20 in one sitting, but a lot compared to what I have heard other young beardies eating). So on that note, just wanted to add that, giving your beardie lots of veriety and choice in his 'greens' and leaving them in there to munch on all day seems the best way to me. Also put some colour in there to attract him! We have a really good food care sheet which lists staples and occasionals etc... not to mention the nevers! We give him his staples and mix up the occasionals so he gets a variety with the odd bits of colour, making sure not to give him too much occasionals too often though. We also hand a dandylion leaf from a sucker pad grip every day and have witnessed him taking bites out of that, (we also run water down it and he seems to like drinking from it) and we often walk in to catch him in the food bowl snacking on dandylion or squash

As for the no water dish :shock: we've had one in all this time and I'm quite worried now!? Like I said, he's two months old approx. and I'd seen loads of beardie vivs in stores and on the net with them in (although I do know it's rare they drink from them, I thought it would help if they wanted a soak - on top of the baths we already give him). I take it then that we should remove it sharpish?

Cheers and sorry to hijack the thread at the end, although I'm sure any answers will help you too frenchfrie000!

 

[zebraflavencs]

Fal, most of us offer baths 3-4 times a week in lieu of the water dish. Having water in the viv, is a sure way to bring up humidity, so I would indeed remove that, and just offer the baths
Janie.

 

[Fal]

Thanks Janie, I'll do that right away!!

I bathed him today, and we do every day when he is shedding, until it is over (which ony took him 2/3 days last week), but had only been bathing him 1 or 2 a week before that... that's going to change!

As for heating (as mentioned above), how do you guys deal with external temp changes? Being on a NW coast of England, one day can be 28c and the next 15c lol (totally random weather I can tell you). We have a thermostat boiler central heating system (fairly new and funky lol) and so we have the thermostat in the same room as the viv and set to 21c to try and keep the house as regular as possible, but I worry his viv will be affected with temp changes. It tends to stay pretty much the same, although has risen to 28c in the cool end over the past week or so on the odd hot day, so we turned off the ehat lamp :? until it levelled out again. I wondered if there are thermostats that can heat up and cool down the basking lamp to maintain a temp? Or would I be looking at big money for that sort of setup? We have a heat lamp on a normal bayonet fitting at the moment which is just on/off, so not sure if a thermo would work with that?

Sorry again to bombard you with questions, especially on someone elses thread

Cheers
Fal

 

[zebraflavencs]

Fal, your basking temps should be in the 42-43* range, whereas your cool temps should be near 27-28*. To achieve over night ranges, you may wish to invest in a CHE ( ceramic heat element). This bulb only puts out heat, no light so it is brilliant to use at night time. Also, would you be kind enough to list all your lighting, and how old it is, so we/I can help you resolve this ?
Also, venting is very important for keeping temps regulated. How many vents and how large are they ?
Does that help out ?
Love this, I am here in America and I can use metrics.... lol no math whiz here !
Janie.

 

[Fal]

lol metrics rule!

Ahh so 28c for cool end is ok, there's so many conflicting care sheets lol

Ok, the UV strip light is a: Repti Glo 10.00 UVB housed in a Arcadia Flourescent Lighting Controller (has a dial but not sure what it's for lol, got the Arcadia off my gf).

The heat lamp is a: Exo Terra Heat Glo heat lamp 100w Infra red (we have this on 24/7 and have recently read that it can effect their sleep, although as soon as the UV lamp clicks off (on a timer) he goes to his usual spot on his bog wood, closes his eyes and that's him for the night, without fail?). This is housed in a normal bayonet fitment.

We have him in a 20gallon tank with a vented lid (vent is open mesh running the length of the front and then open at the back where the uv strip runs). He is going into a 67gallon in a couple of weeks which will also have a full vented top. We have a friend who has successfully bread beardies in an aquarium in the past with vented top and so we thought it would be fine, as long as we keep on top of the heating levels (hence question about thermostats). It's cost us £300+ for the tank before we knew about vivariums :?

The heating at the moment in the 20gal is as follows:

Cool end varies from 26c to 28c.
Warm end varies from 30c to 35c ambient and basking spot is around late 30's to 40c, although I have just aquired a probed digi therm so going to test that out when my brother can keep Draco out of the way, because I believe you have to leave them forty or so minutes and Draco is way too interested in the probe to leave it in there with him lol

 

[zebraflavencs]

Oh yes, babies love to explore! So yes, 45 minutes is the time limit for an accurate reading.

Now, how handy are you with a power saw, measuring tape, screw gun and hammer ? If you can make anything basic, you can actually make your own custom viv ! I think I saw folks making them for around 120 lbs. Just make sure you use only Hard woods, and seal in with Polyurethane, also caulk in any gaps with 100% silicone, and allow for 24 hours cure time. I just know you can do this !
I would be happy to help out, though you will have to make the conversions, as I am no math whiz .
Janie.