Beardie not himself

[ShadowandSpaz]

Hi,

I have looked for about 2 hours, and have not found a topic that answers my questions, so I am just posting a new situation. I am asking for help and ideas.
Here are the settings:
40 Gallon Breeder Tank
2 adult beardies 1 male (Shadow) age unknown (18 inches tip to tail) 1 female (Spaz) about 1 1/2 years old (housed together for 1+ year)
basking temp - 99 - 102 degrees F
cool area 85-90 degrees f
humidity 35-40% after morning and afternoon misting dries
heat provided by reptisun 10.0 uva/b 150 watt incandescent lamp
substrate - sand (not calci or play sand)
typical diet for both - 2-4 mealworms (dusted with T-Rex Dragon Dust - calcium, vitamin A & D, crude fat, protein, and fiber) consumed each, and 2-4 fresh cut (from frozen and thawed to room temp) green beans each

I have had Shadow for 1 - 1/2 years. Spaz for 1 year - age is unknown as he was adopted from a student who got him from a science teacher for the summer, and the science teacher did not return, and left no forwarding info.

Anyway, after the initial get used to period, Shadow and Spaz have happily co habitated together for the past 13 months.

The last few days Shadow has been very lethargic, and his eyes seem to be very 'sunk-in' as opposed to normal. I haven't observed him consume any food or water, and today I thought he died. Yesterday he was brought out of his cage, and walked around a little (observed 100%) and seemed slow, but not normal. Today i watched him for awhile, and had a hard time observing him breathing. I picked him up out of the enclosure, and he was limp (I thought he was dead). I ran some luke warm water into a shallow sterilite tub, only chin deep, and placed him in it, being careful to not let his nose and mouth become submersed. I left him in this for about 15 minutes, running the water over him, and trying to have him consume some with a syringe. He did not hold his head up at first, so I propped one end of the tub at a slight angle. I reached underneath to feel his stomach and massage it, if it is impaction to help somehow. There doesn't seem to be any bulges, or hard spots, other than normal, and I am unaware of any trauma that may have occurred to cause this.

His beard was back and forth between full black and partial black, and his color was tree bark greyish brown. After his bath I held him in a towel, and noticed him drooling. I tipped him forward, and a lot more drool came out (maybe a teaspoon). I dried him and massaged his stomach which felt warm, and he was holding his head up a bit, and placed him in the enclosure resting vertical on a rock under the basking light. After about 2 minutes, he began to shake his head profusely once or twice, and I observed some more drool being flung out of his mouth. After this, I could observe him breathing, and he was holding his head up (slightly), eyes were open, color had returned to normal yellowish color after bathing, but he still seemed weak (probably from lack of eating).

From the syringe I dripped calcium dusted water, which both dragons usually love. He was not interested. After about an hour, he crawled up over the rock, and climbed into a log shelter where he lay resting now. He is breathing, but I am very concerned as to anything I may do to help him be comfortable. He does not appear to be emaciated from lack of food - the only thing visually different is his eyes seem recessed a little more than normal.

 

[mpinsky]

It sounds like he has an RI. Beardies don't do good in humidity since they are desert animals. I'd say get him to the vet as quickly as possible. Once Diane or another mod comes on, they'll be able to help you in more detail.

 

[crickest]

In order to post a picture you need to go to photobucket, upload it there and then paste the link into the bullentin board.

Posting a picture will help us see what's going on with him.

One of the things I would point out is their diet. It doesn't seem like enough food for a beardie. My six month old eats 100 feeders a day and at least a full cup of chopped dandelion leaves. Green beans are not recommended for a staple. There's a great nutrition guide at http://www.beautifuldragon.com that identifies what can/should be fed daily and what should be fed more occassionally. Also, there isn't much nutritional value in mealworms and their hard shell can be difficult to digest. You might go out and buy some squash babyfood and try handfeeding him. Squash is a staple and he can eat as much of that as he wants. If he does well with that, you can add a little chicken babyfood in a couple of days. I would do this immediately.

Couple of other questions: When was the last poop? Was it firm? Was it runny? Were there any undigested bits in it?
Also, when was the last time the Repti-Sun was changed. The flouresant tube lights are only good for six months.

I would also look at housing them separate. The female may be dominating the male and not letting him eat, especially with so little food available.

I would also start 15 - 20 minute baths 2 to 3 times a day, with a little pedilyte (unflavored) added to the water. The sunken eyes sounds like dehydration, but hard to say for sure without a pic. I would stop misting, since that can cause upper resp infections if they aspirate the mist.

Let us know if this helps and see if you can post a picture.

 

[ShadowandSpaz]

Thank you for your replies. It must have either been old age, or something that acts quickly. Shadow died tonight at 7:45 E.D.T. Now we deal with life, and the aftermath of losing a family member.....

 

[ShadowandSpaz]

So when we are misting the dragons, is there a proper way to do it? I have just been spraying a fine mist over their entire body.

 

[mpinsky]

Oh, dear. I am very sorry for you loss.

You can always do it outside the cage, which is what I do. Because a cage is an enclosed space, the humidity keeps. Misting outside the cage prevents this from happening. Of course, baths are even better than misting and allows the beardie to become more hydrated since they absorb water through their vents.

 

[ShadowandSpaz]

I would like to thank all of you for reading and posting replies. It has been really hard on our 9 year old daughter, future veterinarian (even before this event). It is so painful being so helpless, and trying to help her.

Now that a few days have passed, it is starting to get back to normal. We buried Shadow, out in the back yard under a big pine tree. As luck would have it, something was digging and attempted to dig him up. We lucked out. Everything, the notes, pictures, were still in tact. So we packed him a little better, wrapped the whole box in a plastic bag, dug so the hole was about 2 feet deep, and placed some animal repellent in and around the hole. So far so good. We live in an area where we have everything from woodchucks, to deer to raccoons, skunks, coyotes, and possibly ferrets.

I wanted to reply back and get some information about some of the replies. As far as food, the beardies have an abundance of food. I know I stated mealworms, they are actually superworms. When there were two, I put 8 worms in the tank, after dusting them with dragon dust, and then I would put a mix of carrots, corn, and green beans, then about 10 1 - 1 1/2" green beans in a food bowl. This has actually been developed over the last year for what the dragons will eat. I did recently start feeding Spaz (the survivor) spring mix leafs. I misunderstood, and thought I wasn't supposed to feed any lettuce to them, but I guess it was just iceberg lettuce. There is always food available for them. I have not seen Spaz dominating, and Shadow always seemed to get what he wanted, in fact, I thought otherwise, that maybe Spaz wasn't being allowed to eat, yet that was not the case either.

The Reptisun bulb is 8 weeks old. It is the incandescent style. Thanks for the link to the nutrition guide.

By the way, how warm is too warm for a basking area? I have been reading that it needs to be warm warm warm. 105+ degrees. I measured directly under the basking light, on one of the half log enclosures, and it got as hot as 135, when the thermometer was there for 1 hour. In the cool area, the tank measured 77 degrees. I have since changed the lamp, and am planning on getting the Mega Ray bulb - sounds like a really great bulb for beardies.

The next obvious question is regarding getting another dragon. What is the likelihood for a successful pairing with another female (Spaz is female) about the same size? What should I consider when considering this?

Removing the sand from the tank today, and replacing with repti-carpet (the green brillo pad stuff) to help with the humidity.

Also, I like to rearrange the habitat about once a month. Is this okay? I never considered there being stress to the dragons.

That's all I will ask for now. Again thanks for the comments, suggestions, and thoughts.

Peace to all.

Jeffrey and Kennedy

 

[crickest]

Dragons are solitary creatures. If you are going to get two it is recommended you have two tanks. . . and sometimes you can't even have them in the same room. There is a good chance they would savage each other, and if you think explaining to your nine year old the cycle of life and death is hard, imagine going through blood, and missing toes, limbs, tail, etc. There are a lot of beardies on here who are missing limbs because they were housed together.

The only time to bring two together is to breed. And breeding them can have its own issues. One of the breeders on here said you can get 220 eggs from one breeding and you can't house more than five babies in one viv, (if you want to be responsible). Do some research on the process, if that is what you are considering.

We were thinking of getting a second one, but decided we couldn't keep them both safe if they couldn't be housed in the same room. (One monstrous cat who would like to eat the pretty beardie and must be kept out of the bedroom.)