Beardie is having multiple seizures...help

[Silver78]

My sons beardie has early stages of MBD, we have purchased a MVB Bulb and his temps are high normal on the basking and the heat sides. He has not eaten on his own for a few weeks but takes well to force feeding. We have him on liquid calcium and sometimes dust his romaine with calcium powder. His color has come back (he's a lovely orange) and he's finally pooped. My concern is his seizures...they seem more frequent. He has no signs of deformation and after he eats he runs around like normal, usually ending up in a seizure Anyone have any ideas on how long it might take for the seizures to go away if ever? Maybe what else I can do for him? There is no herp vet anywhere near me so I'm kinda on my own with this.

 

[AHBD]

Hi there, sorry your beardie is having such trouble. Can you post pics of him as well as his set up, and can you list the exact type + brand of lights you have ? Also, what are you using when feeding him ? Did he have other MBD symptoms like shaking, toes twitching, walking strangely, etc ? Adenovirus can also cause seizures + loss of appetite and they sometimes exhibit a behavior called stargazing, stretching backwards at a very unnatural angle. If you Google adenovirus you can read more on the symptoms. Hopefully it's just calcium deficiency and can be reversed.

 

[Silver78]

Hi there, sorry your beardie is having such trouble. Can you post pics of him as well as his set up, and can you list the exact type + brand of lights you have ? Also, what are you using when feeding him ? Did he have other MBD symptoms like shaking, toes twitching, walking strangely, etc ? Adenovirus can also cause seizures + loss of appetite and they sometimes exhibit a behavior called stargazing, stretching backwards at a very unnatural angle. If you Google adenovirus you can read more on the symptoms. Hopefully it's just calcium deficiency and can be reversed.

I will get pics as soon as I can, for lighting we have a new 160watt Solar Glo MVB Bulb for heat and a ExoTerra 60Watt Basking light, he is in a 40gallon tank. I can force feed him apples and romaine lettuce, so far that's about all he will go for. I haven't noticed the stargazing at all, but he does flip sideways right before he seizes...as for shaking previously nothing out of the ordinary, one day he seemed good then the next he had a seizure and hasen't been the same since. We have moved him in to the front room now so we can monitor him better.

 

[diamc]

The poor thing, it must be so scary for all of you. How old is he? And how long has this been going on?

Actually 220 watts seems like an awful lot of heat for a 40 gallon tank. Could you fill us in on the type of thermometer you're using, digital strip, round gauge (dial), temperature gun or digital with long wire & probe end?

What are you getting for the basking SURFACE temp, the ambient and cool side?

MVB's have a certain distance requirement depending on the bulb wattage because of their UV output. A 160 watt should be a minimum of 16" away from your beardie while in the basking spot. Do you think it is at least that far away?

How long has it been since he ate anything besides romaine lettuce and apples? Would be a good idea to pick up some chicken or turkey babyfood as well as veggie babyfood like squash, sweet potato or green beans. Mix a small amount of one of the meat with a small amount of veggie and put drops on his nose to try to get him to lick it off. Have you been offering him drinks of water?

Hope you can get this figured out and he can improve soon. Has he been seen by a reptile vet?

 

[Drache613]

Hello,

Poor guy, that has to be scary for him as well as you having to see him go through that.
It can be very painful for them.
Which liquid calcium are you using & are you dosing it also?
The Solar Glo 160 watt is definitely sufficient, but may be too close possibly, I am not sure. It should be at a 14-16 inch distance since it is a 160 watt. I agree, that is too much wattage for a 40 gallon tank, though. He only needs just the one MVB light, but at the proper distance for him.
Do you have any pictures of him & of the tank setup we could see also?
Which foods are you feeding him via syringe feeding?

Let us know how he is doing.
Tracie

 

[Silver78]

Thank u all for your help It's definitely heart wrenching to watch. Thorn is 18mos old. The reason we got the 160w bulb is because that's all there was left at the 3 pet stores that carry any reptile stuff. I thought it would be better than the coil UV we had. I've ordered a probe thermometer online still waiting its arrival...for now we have 2 round ones on either side of the tank. He has been eating romaine and apples for about 3 weeks, previous to that he would eat a few meal worms a week and always had fruit and greens in his dish. He seems to be laying in is water dish a lot and we have been giving him water as well, he will lick it off his nose.
I have some pictures, I used the uploader on this site but can't seem to find them to post :?

 

[AHBD]

Oh, here is the info for posting pics, sorry, I meant to add it. :
https://www.beardeddragon.org/useruploads/
Then hit the XIMG button.

I agree that the 220 watts is too hot. Just use the Solar glo bulb at a distance of about 16 inches at least. Even shutting off the other bulb may help right now by reducing the temp. You don't even need to check, it's certainly too hot with the 2 bulbs.

 

[Silver78]

 

[AHBD]

O.K, thanks for the pics. So is that a 160 watt bulb on one side and a 60 on the other ? Poor guy, he is cooking....his seizures may be a stroke like situation brought on by over heating. Move the 160 bulb up high ASAP, like now, and get rid of the other bulb. I believe that's the problem. Give him a soak in about 3" of cool -lukewarm water, but of course watch that he doesn't go under. But please adjust those bulbs immediately.

 

[diamc]

Oh dear, that 160 watt MVB is way to close to him. There is no way he can escape the heat, explains why he has been laying in his water dish a lot. Turning the 60 watt bulb off will help some but please move the MVB further away so that it is about 16" from him. The heat being so high and with the MVB that close, could certainly explain the "seizure-like" activity.

Continue with the oral fluids and be sure to give him baths to help his body cool off also.

So you haven't syringe fed him anything at all, right? Have been only putting pieces of romaine and apples in his mouth? Would be a good idea to pick up some chicken or turkey babyfood as well as veggie babyfood like squash, sweet potato or green beans. Mix a small amount of one of the meat with a small amount of veggie and put drops on his nose to try to get him to lick it off. He needs some protein so he will get that from one of the meat babyfoods until he feels well enough to eat feeders again. Rather than mealworms (an impaction risk), you could get him crickets, dubia roaches, silkworms, hornworms, butterworms, superworms.

Please let us know how he does when you turn the 2nd light off and move the MVB further away. Also, the MVB's are not supposed to be used at an angle as it will affect the filaments and shorten the life of the bulb.

 

[Drache613]

Hello,

Oh my, I agree, it is too close to him which is why he is laying in his water due to overheating.
Did you get the other bulb turned off?
He looks very good though, great colors & body condition, too.
Were you able to get any oral fluids into him today & maybe a bath also?
Let us know how he is doing.

Tracie

 

[Silver78]

So I turned the 60w off and moved the MVB light we will see how he does today, I should mention tho that he had his first seizure before we got the MVB bulb, we only had a coil UVB and regular heat bulb at the time. I'm going to pick up some babyfood today and try to get some protein in to him as well.
Thanks again, I will keep you guys updated.

 

[AHBD]

O.K, good....and I wondered if he had one before the new lamps were installed. But this should help, and if it's still a calcium issue then getting him out in the sun [ not in a glass tank ] should help him to assimilate the calcium.

 

[Silver78]

Hi everyone
Update on Thorn...he is still having seizures, but not wildly flip flopping around now, just curling up on his side with his mouth open tounge hanging out sometimes biting at the ground They last roughly 10-15 seconds. I've been feeding him baby food for protein and still romaine lettuce and the occasional piece of apple, he only eats a little bit a day before he starts to get stressed and fights me opening his mouth. We give him daily baths and still spray him with calcium water daily. I'm not sure what else to do for him at this point....any more ideas would be greatly appreciated. I can't get him to a herp vet as there are none in my area. He hasen't shed since October. He's only had 2 bowel movements in 3 weeks.
Thanks again

 

[SLDragon]

Do you know what the temperatures in the vivarium are?

Are you using any kind of vitamin supplement?

DId you diagnose MBD yourself?