Beardie is dying

[Buttertoast95]

Hey guys, ive posted about this before but ive changed everything about my girls set up so the situation has changed. My lil girl butter is very lethargic, eyes closed all day, hasnt eaten in 3 days, doesnt move quite often, sunken eyes and black beard and clear liquid coming out of her mouth and nostrils. She seemed to be gettin better so i didnt take her to the vet but now its saturday and all the bets around me are closed till tuesday. And i couldnt et an appointment till wednesday so i need to do something at home fast. I will post pictures after i finish this post. Before i had 2 beardies, brother and sister butter and toast in a single 60 gallon tank. They seemed to be always trying to steal the basking area even though there was 2 basking areas and the food so i separated them and upgraded everything. They had a coil uvb bulb and a 50w basking light and only superwos as a staple. Through this website and my own research i learned that everything i was doing was wrong. I now have them in separate tanks. I built them myself of melamine so no harmful fumes. Each have a 100watt powersun mvb less than 2 months old and a reptisun 10.0 uvb bulb that covers the majority of the tank. They had a branch that they can climb and get as far or as close as they want to the bulbs. Ventilation and a sliding plexiglass door. Its been taken apart now for cleaning so you wont see t in the pictures. Can someone please tell me whats wrong with her and if theres something i can do before she passes away?

 

[Buttertoast95]

Also i forgot to mention. The previous owners did not take care of them at all. They let her roam sround in her own poop. The humidty was at 70 when i saw them. They were dirty as hell with their own poop. She has 2 seollen limbs so i though it was mbd. And also i forgot to mention that i have them on a black soldier fly larvae staple diet with veggies now. Mustard greens, dandelion greens and another one i cant think of right now. Please help

 

[AHBD]

I'm so sorry, Butter is pretty well on her way in the dying process. It's not your fault, you upgraded everything from the horrible life she previously had. An experienced emergency vet that regularly sees dragons might give her a very slim chance, but her condition in the pics shows she is probably dying.

Are you sure the temps. aren't too hot in the new tank ?
Can you get any fluids in her via syringe ? Slip a playing card in her mouth + jiggle it to open slightly, the VERY gently offer then water ...a tiny bit at a time so she doesn't choke.

Or is there any emergency vet to see her ?

No way to know for sure if she has cancer [ sadly,cancer is common in beardies ] or a virus like atadenovrus that would cause this rapid decline.

Is the other dragon doing well ?

 

[Buttertoast95]

I gave her some water and the temps check out to around 100 with a mini infrared temp gun. Other dragons seem to be doing ok but i will be keeping a close eye. What exactly is the cancer for bearded dragons like?

 

[AHBD]

Cancer can develop different parts of the body, only a necropsy could tell you if this is what she had. There are owners on here whose dragons died from cancer.

As a matter of fact there is one posted here now that sadly passed away just hours ago from carcinoma.

 

[Buttertoast95]

how can they get it though? It makes no sense to me. She had seollen limbs and was weak when i got her but she was starting to do better, now shes all of a sudden doing so much worse...

 

[Buttertoast95]

Weirdly enough, she seems alot more active again. Shes movig around and basking and has her yellow skintone again. Beard is still slightly black but not as jetblack as before. As i mentioned before. I was cleaning the viv so i removed everything including the tile but is that distance from the uvb fine?

its about 9 or 10 inches away from her head

 

[Drache613]

Hello,

I am sorry she is having such a rough time! I think it is a possibility of her having developed gout which can cause a rapid decline due to renal issues.
Try starting a semi-aggressive fluid therapy process comprised of oral fluids daily. Start with 3-5mls along with some Black cherry juice/extract mixed in with it too. That can begin to help flushing out excess uric acid for now.
There is a slight possibility of getting some subcutaneous fluids into her from a vet, if you could get her to one, but she is very dehydrated right now.
Let us know how she is doing.

Tracie

 

[kingofnobbys]

Is she getting any nutrition ?

What and how ?

 

[kingofnobbys]

Weirdly enough, she seems alot more active again. Shes movig around and basking and has her yellow skintone again. Beard is still slightly black but not as jetblack as before. As i mentioned before. I was cleaning the viv so i removed everything including the tile but is that distance from the uvb fine?

its about 9 or 10 inches away from her head

I don't see any reflector behind the UV tube , so even if it's a 12%UVB T5HO , she can probably do with it being a tad closer , or alternatively , a slip on reflector will fix the low UVB & UVB flux issue.
I'm wondering if her condition has some to do with inadequate UVA in the past as well as well as past owner's neglect.
Here is some info that will help you decide how to best bump up her UV so she's getting about 190 microW UVB / sq.cm at the basking spot. viewtopic.php?f=34&t=235611

A shaped polished reflector will effectively double the UV flux at the basking spot. see http://arcadia-reptile.com/fluorescent-lamp-reflectors-t5t8/ and

 

[Buttertoast95]

Is she getting any nutrition ?

What and how ?

Yes she is getting liquid calcium diluted every other day orally and liquid vitamin orally about 8 drops every other day. Sometimes dust insects with calcium WITH d3 which i know isnt the beat for her and might be excess but i dont give it to her often

Weirdly enough, she seems alot more active again. Shes movig around and basking and has her yellow skintone again. Beard is still slightly black but not as jetblack as before. As i mentioned before. I was cleaning the viv so i removed everything including the tile but is that distance from the uvb fine?

its about 9 or 10 inches away from her head

I don't see any reflector behind the UV tube , so even if it's a 12%UVB T5HO , she can probably do with it being a tad closer , or alternatively , a slip on reflector will fix the low UVB & UVB flux issue.
I'm wondering if her condition has some to do with inadequate UVA in the past as well as well as past owner's neglect.
Here is some info that will help you decide how to best bump up her UV so she's getting about 190 microW UVB / sq.cm at the basking spot. viewtopic.php?f=34&t=235611

A shaped polished reflector will effectively double the UV flux at the basking spot. see http://arcadia-reptile.com/fluorescent-lamp-reflectors-t5t8/ and

I will try to get a reflector. But the previous owner that gave her to me, that only had her for 6 months of her 5 years had a reflective flourescent dome and i dot know what kind of bulb.
The owner before that i know had her in sand and sitting in her own poop but i didnt see their light setup or tank setup in general. When i got her, i had a reflective bulb with a coil bulb but i realized that was bad so i changed it BEFORE she started getting sick. In the meantime i do have some reflective tape that i can shape together and make it better for the time being, i work construction so i have tons of things useful and handy. (The one upside to working hard labor ehh). Im starting to think that the "first owner" was actually the girl who claims she only had them for 6 months but had a whole setup and 3 other bearded dragons. She just seems to know alot about the previous owner and setup and pictures so i think she just took really bad care if them and didnt want to admit it. But atleast she realized she wasnt capable of taking care of them and gave them to me. But anyways. After i realized the coil bulb was bad after about a week i put a 100w powersun mvb bulb in there to make sure she was ok. She was doing fine. No problems. Not very active but definately active. Her limbs were already swollen when i got her. And she moves on all four legs. But she was a little weak. Now shes extremely weak and cant hold herself or even hold knto my clothes when i take her out on hot days.

 

[AHBD]

It's great that you've tried so hard + even made a beautiful new tank for your dragons. Aside from the supplements, is she taking in water or any food mixture ? If you don't have it already, get some Oxbow Critical Care. The liquid vitamins should only be 1-2 drops , at 1-2X a week.

And if that were an Arcadia 12% bulb you wold definitely not move it closer one bit. They are very strong bulbs. Even a Reptisun 10.0 t8 is fine at that distance, besides you have a mercury vapor bulb as well. No need at all to change her uvb distance, she has plenty access .

That would not be why she is this ill, the other dragon you mentioned is not ill. Something else going on here. poor girl.

 

[kingofnobbys]

Has a reptile vet examined her ?

I think she really needs to have a thorough vet examination and maybe some bloods taken to work out how best to move forward and to come up with a treatment / rehabilitation plan.
Based on her past (one of neglect / cruelty) by the prior owner , we'd only be guessing with a vet assessing her and doing some tests. I think this should be your priority for her and is her best chance of getting past this.

As stated by AHBD , vitamins and calcium are not enough , if she's been off her food to while be careful giving her food suppliments (like Oxbow Carnivore Critical Care , HerpaBoost or ReptiBoost, even a wet slurry of Repashi GrubPie) by syringe , there is a risk her kidneys may pack it in it's not taken gradually..

 

[EllenD]

Took the words right out of my mouth...She's emaciated, her fat pads on her head are depleted and her spine,ribs, and hips are sticking out. So most likely due to a life of inadequate UVB, inadequate temperatures, and inadequate diet (though she wouldn't have much appetite anyway with the bad lighting and temps) she is now in multi-organ failure, most importantly kidney failure. I highly doubt she has any type of illness or disease, this is just due to neglect and totally inadequate care throughout her life, and it's sad. Plus, she's been housed with and dominated by other beardies her entire life too, so she has never gotten the good food, basking spots, or anything else, and she's been extremely stressed her entire life.

She cannot handle solid food right now, as Nobbys already said, giving her protein right now has to be done extremely slowly because her kidneys can't handle it. She needs to be put in an animal hospital and given IV and/or subcutaneous fluids to help out her kidneys, while being tube fed Critical Care in very small portions during multiple feeding sessions throughout each day. The black beard is indicating she's in severe pain though, i think her body is finally shutting down and she's suffering. If I were you I would not wait until Tuesday to get her to a reptile vet, I'd find your closest 24 hour animal hospital and drive her there now. Any animal hospital can give her the fluids she needs and tube feed her the Critical Care, but more importantly they can take blood and see just how far into organ failure she is. I hate to say it, but by looking at her current state she may be better off being euthanized peacefully. I don't usually say that, I'm all for trying everything I can to save them, but she is suffering greatly and in agony. And even if her kidneys and liver don't fail, this is going to be months and months of fluid therapy, tube feedings, medications, etc.

 

[Drache613]

Hello,

How is your girl today?
Are you going to be able to get her to a vet for fluids & help with feeding? As suggested, in her
state, I don't recommend giving any protein right now, just a greens slurry to get her hydrated.
If you can get her into a vets, they can give fluid therapy to help her kidneys start to work better.
I'm sorry the previous owner neglected her so terribly, it is heart breaking when that happens.

Let us know how she is doing.
Tracie