Beardie dragon hand

[Blaze]

As alot of you may know, i rescued my beardie from petsmart.
it was a long, and hard recovery, and my guy made it through, he suffers from slow growth due to his early life.
and has gotten extremely better, he is being housed in a 20 gallon long.
gets uvb from the sun, for at least 2 hrs. a day.
has a basking spot of 105. degrees.
eats a mixed salad. of collards, mustards, lettuce, grapes, carrots, and more.
and eats crickets, mealworms, super worms, (all freshly shed) and roaches on a daily basis.
the problem is that ever since he shed, he had some issues with his hand.
its not a retained shed, but hes dragging one. his front left hand, it doesnt look like it hurts.
he can prop himself up right. but he just lets it go limp often.
i read that it could be MBD symptoms.
and its understandable. i havent given him calcium in awhile.
and i think that his sudden growth spurt triggered it.
i feel horrible. i was just posting about how great his been doing, and now his taken a turn for the worse.
this little dude means alot to me, and ive grown extremely attatched.
im kind of mad at myself for not supplying calcium on a regular basis.
and at the moment i cant afford vet care.
i can post pictures later on today.
and would love any advice.
thanks in advance

 

[gulfbrzdawn]

Sorry to hear your little guy is not doing well.
It does sound as though he is showing signs of mbd. Does he have a UVB in his viv or is the 2 hrs of sun daily all that he is receiving as far as UVB goes?
If he is only getting 2 hrs of UVB a day, it is not enough. You might want to get him a UVB source for his viv. Right now the best one on the market is the ReptiSUN 10 fluorescent tube UVB. He will need one that stretches at least 2/3 the length of his viv.
The calcium is extremely important for proper bone growth. If he is a young beardie, he needs calcium dusted on his feeders 5 x a week and a multivitamin 3 x a week. If he is an adult... calcium 3 x a week and multivitamin 1-2 x a week. Since he is already showing signs of mbd.. a liquid calcium would probably be better for him.
If you get him a good UVB source and get him on calcium regularly, you can stop the mbd from getting any worse.

 

[w0554096]

As far as I know, one hour of natural sunlight is the equivalent of a whole day under a UV bulb. So if he's getting two hours outside a day, his UV intake should be sufficient. He should still have an UVB bulb for his viv, just in case you can't get him out, or it's raining, etc. I definately seccond the liquid calcium though. You could also try some calci worms, as they're very high in calcium as well. Remember that they also need a few hours of UV after they eat to properly digest their food. SO, if you were taking him outside, then feeding him later, their could be a few issues.
Best of luck.

 

[Blaze]

thanks for the response.
as for the mbd. can that be reversed?
as in, it took not even 3 days for his hand to go limp.
and i live in Fl, so we have been having very hot and sunny days.
ill look into ordering the reptisun 10.0
im going out to buy some calcium today.
and do you have any idea where i can get the liquid calcium?
thank you for such a quick response

 

[gulfbrzdawn]

As far as I know, one hour of natural sunlight is the equivalent of a whole day under a UV bulb.

Can I ask where you got your information from?


Blaze... I am happy to hear that you are going to look into the Reptisun.
From what you are describing about your beardie's hand, it sounds like MBD. I could be wrong, but unless your beardie has recently injured that hand or there is some other health issue going on I don't know what else it could be. Could you post a pic of your beardie's hand for us?
As for the liquid calcium, if you cannot find it locally, Tracie(Drache613) has a site in which she sells it. http://www.bug-de-lite.com

 

[w0554096]

gulfbrzdawn, I first read about the natural sunlight equivalence online, which of course is not always reliable so I talked to my vet about it. My vet said that although it's true it's also going to be dependant on the UV output in your area and time of year. You can go to your local weather network online and look the UV report to monitor how high the uv is in your area.

 

[Blaze]

To me, it seemed as if my guy was healthy. no swollen joints, no pain, no toe twitching,
and the hand limpness was sudden. today i got him out for 3+ hours in full sunlight, and fed him a dozen calcium covered crickets before hand.
his hand doesnt seem to be getting progressively worse. but its still early to tell. i will post pictures soon. thank you

 

[AHBD]

Hi Blaze....if it is the beginning of MBD, then the calcium and natural sun will heal it more quickly than anything, and if it has not deformed his wrist [ sounds like it's only been a few days ] then it will almost certainly be reversed. Keep doing what your'e doing, and yes, one hour in the Florida sun beats any light on the market. The only other possible thing it might be is if he maybe got his hand stuck somewhere[ under a log or rock in his tank] and yanked it too quickly, it could be similar to a sprain...hopefully nothing worse.

 

[gulfbrzdawn]

Wow! I have never heard that one hour in the sun(or the FL sun) is equivalent to a full day under a UVB :shock: Has this been studied or proven? I live in FL and here I have been spending all this money on expensive UVB lights for my beardie's for 7 yrs. Can someone show me some concrete facts on this?


Blaze... how is your beardie doing today? Are you able to post a pic?

 

[AHBD]

I've done it for 16 years, [ use only the sun during the warm season] from hatchling to adult. This is not to confuse people with the idea that they need no light/ heat when they are brought back in to their enclosure for the rest of the day....they still need a bright hot light [ I use common house bulbs, and have used halogen at times] but they already have the UV needed for the day when put outside regularly. The only dragon I ever had that developed the twisted wrists was about 14 years ago,living indoors during the winter and I caught it quickly and he thrived very well for years.

 

[Blaze]

Ok, well im hoping it was a sprain. as it seems to be a little better.
im still adding calcium to his food. ive been giving him turkey and chicken baby food mixed with calcium.
and today i sat outside with him for a full 3 hours.
im hoping that this will quickly clear up, and that his wrist will be reversed to what it was before.
thank you for the advice everyone. and i do plan on getting him a uvb this week.
i will update frequently. and maybe make a video so you all can see what its like.
thank you all for the responses.

 

[Drache613]

Hello,

Great that you will be getting a new light this week for your dragon.
As far as the 1 hour of sunlight being equivalent to a full 12 hour under the UVB light, no, there is no scientific proof of that. It greatly varies. It would depend on the "intensity" of the UVB, during the 1 hour, etc & whether or not the dragon actually sat under the sun for that entire hour, or self regulated as they normally do in the heat.
They most likely would not sit directly in the sunlight for an hour, as they regulate their D3 levels by sitting in the more intense light, then sitting out of it. Their D3 levels are regulated by the strength of the UVB & the length of time spent under the intensity of the UVB.
While I always encourage outdoor time, it is not always an option for a lot of keepers, therefore, I encourage the use of UVB lighting.
So, it is virtually impossible to say 1 hour equals 12 hours of UVB lighting. The UVB measurements of uW/cm2 covers a certain area of the animal, etc. It is measured in time spent in that intensity, etc. A lot of measuring would need to be done, minute by minute, etc, to properly see the comparison of each.
The sunlight is much more intense yes, but in short intervals is all they do in the wild, but for off & on periods during the day depending on the heat.

Tracie

 

[AHBD]

The point that I was making is that whether or not scientists studied it, those of us that do utilize the sun know of it's benefits, and so it's not a real guess and the results show that in the animals raised. I think if you would look at an illustration using healthy people in certain parts of the world that eat right, [for instance, the Mediterranean diet] have a good lifestyle ,and exercise regularly, you don't need scientific evidence to figure out why they thrive and have good health And I'm not making this statement about sunlight at all to be arguementive, I just know it to be true because I've seen the results for many years.... Otherwise, the dragons would suffer from the consequences. I never use uvb bulbs from spring through fall, and the dragons thrive. That's the evidence. And I have seen babies that start out with the low calcium " twitching" get better in one to two days with no medical intervention, just the sun along with normal calcium supplementation. I do agree though, that for anyone who is too skeptical to try it, then it's fine to have the bulbs, and I understand that the whole sun versus bulbs debate is not understood or believed by everyone. These were just my suggestions to try and help with a problem that can in many cases be " cured" much more quickly by the help of natural sunlight.

 

[Drache613]

Hello,

No, I completely understand your approach. It's just not feasible for a lot of owners to have that type of time, or resources to be able to consistently provide the sun as it does take time to get them outside safely.
Some areas have much lower sun intensity than other places do, so, it does greatly depend & is very variable.
I think the sun is superior to UVB lights, that is for sure. I myself cannot always get our dragons out when I would like to, so, the bulbs help out when I am unable to get them out for as long as I would like to.
I wish that I could provide an outdoor tank, but, during the summer it is way too hot for that. In the wild, they hide during the hottest portions of the day, anyway.

Tracie

 

[AHBD]

Yes, Tracie, whether or not a person has time to get the dragon outside is also a real factor, and some places [ especially in the U.K.+ Canada], and depending on the state and time of year in the U.S., don't allow for much sun exposure. I just like people to know that there is a real benefit to getting the dragons out in the sun when they develop the beginning of MBD, it usually works so quickly that it's amazing, and how happy an owner is when there's a quick solution to help their beardie. So, yes, it's still good to have the uvb bulbs, for sure, and I know that everyone posting in these forums does so because they care about their animals, and the people responding, like you and glfbrzedawn and w0554096 do so because you care.