Beardie Cancer/Melanoma/Chromatophormas

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MexisMom

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It's been three + months since our four year old Mexi has had her bump. It hadn't really grown, only darken in color. Today we finally took her to the vet for him to say it's likely cancerous and we won't know anything unless we cut it off and test it, cutting it off would be $400 and any biopsy at additional fees. When there's equal the risk going under anesthesia and cutting a wound with the unknown it's a risk keeping it and cutting it off. I want thoughts and opinions. He was a very caring vet that gave both personal and medical advice. He even recommended another reptile expert much much further away. He said the worst assumption is either CHROMATOPHORMAS or Melanophorma (melanoma). In my gut I think it would be safer to let it take her in time versus starting a cycle of tests ($$) and worry. Mexi is happy & healthy and doesn't act any different. Dragon lovers, support and advice.
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Tonja

BD.org Addict
If its cancer, cancer taking its course can be very very painful. Having it taken off versus her being in pain or it consuming her if its cancer is a decision you would have to make, and its not an easy decision, had to do it for a cocker spaniel. Personally I would opt for removal and biopsy so you know what you are dealing with. A one time cutting it away provided they get it all, versus a lifetime of pain for me is no decision. I know its expensive and not everyone can afford that at one time. Maybe you can make arrangements with your vet for payments. You can also apply for credit care or care credit which is like a credit for emergency medical expenses in pets and humans. You would have to weight the risks and what quality of life you want for your baby. You could even see if your vet could do a needle aspiration of the tissue involved for biopsy I don't know. Just some things to consider.
 

MexisMom

Member
Original Poster
I read :study: and saw the most interesting thing that makes me think it could be a keratin bump. The way it is above her skin/dermal and not under her skin as well as moves when you move her skin makes me less concern about cancer, though it is still a possibility. The keratin bump I saw on another beardie looks more similar to her very small bump versus cancer bumps I've see., I surely hope this could be what it is. It is hard and crusty like that one I saw online and honestly it is not growing as if it were cancer. Most the advice I have been getting says just to monitor it and monitor her. I think surgery would be to abrasive for something this small, at least in its current condition. I am commonly hearing that all mammals get mole type bumps in old age so this could also be it. I would treat myself holistically if I possibly had cancer before I did any harsh treatments, so what I've done was order manuku honey, which I have read has had success curing skin ailments on reptiles. I know it is not an open wound but maybe it will shrink or fall off. I will keep everyone posted on this forum, though I am disappointed that I have only had 1 response. Also, I don't know what results from a keratin bump if its not removed either but what I saw was someone pick it open and pull out the extra keratin and then healed with ointment. I am still researching out for support from people who have had little hard bumps on their dragon. Thank you.
 

Tonja

BD.org Addict
Keratin is what your hair and fingernails are made up off. I have seen eratin growths in beardies which are conical in shape, at least in the ones I have seen. I have seen them in varying sizes from just a small bump to large enlongated structures. From what I understand keratin lesions or bumps are harmless unless they become cumbersome and very large inhibiting the comfort of movement. I cant tell you what to do as its your decision and you know your situation more than anyone. When the vet said it was cancer, did he do any blood work, a skin scraping or anything to indicate it was cancer? The reason I am asking is that in some cases <not all> just looking at a lump, swelling or what have you, unless well versed in the subject, appearance and other things, I don't see how he could jump so quickly to its cancer. In some ways I do agree with you, you can watch it to see if it spreads which if it does I would take the animal back to the vet. Is your dragon acting normal, eating normally, poohing ok, if so I would watch it especially if she is not in any discomfort. Keeping in mind some cancers are very aggressive and you don't know whats under the skin in the way of this growth, be very careful that you really keep an eye on it, redness, abcess, necrosis of the skin are all signs to watch for along with lethargy. I know this post is kind of all over the place but I type as my thoughts come to me. Good luck with her, and will pray its nothing serious.
 

MexisMom

Member
Original Poster
Thank you for your reply. The vet did nothing of sorts. He didn't diagnose it as cancer, he basically said the worst case scenario is skin cancer, and that skin cancer is common for beardies. The vet visit with nothing done that day was $85, I hate to put a price on a loved pet, but I was not comfortable having her put under to do a $400 biopsy at that time. I know I cannot judge from just appearance on what it is, but I am not ready for my sweet girl to have any abrasive work done. She is healthy otherwise, normal daily behavior, normal pooping, normal eating, nothing is wrong, she just has a little baby scabby bump on her. She isn't bothered if its touch or anything. Like I said, if it is cancer I am still not ready to stress her out by having expensive tests done and taking her back and forth to a vet who I am not sure how skilled he is in beardie medicine. He is an expert small mammal vet but said if I were more comfortable he knew a reptile expert an hour away. In the past three months it has not grown at all and I will continue to monitor her and if I noticed a change in behavior or size/color of her bump then without a doubt I would likely take that drive to an expert versus my local one. Thank you Tonja.
 

Damieboo

Hatchling Member
Skin cancer is common for beardies? That's weird considering they spend most of their day in the sun...I wouldn't do any sort of surgery until the vet can take a skin scrape and know for sure it's cancerous. Often times more harm than good is done at the vet's office simply because bearded dragons are still new to the vet world and not much research has been done on them, and the vet would rather do something in the hopes of helping than do nothing at all (also, unfortunately for the ka-ching).

I'd recommend either the skin scrape (relatively painless) or waiting to see if it changes. You should measure the bump or take pictures once a week, as sometimes it's hard to tell if it's getting bigger when you see it every day.
 

SkeptiBee

Hatchling Member
Couple notes up front:
Tonja: Keratin is also what scales are made of.
Damieboo: Cancer works differently in animals than it does people. Generally animals do not get cancer that is triggered from excessive UV exposure but those who have darker pigmented skin have seen higher cases of cancer or tumors. According to the vet I take my beardies to, this hasn't been deeply researched as to why or how the tumors develop. We only have treatments to try and control it but ultimately success is gauged on the aggressiveness of the cancer itself.

MexisMom: I think it was you who posted in another thread earlier today that popped up in my email notification. I wanted to reply in depth with some pictures as I do have a beardie that has been tested for and came back positive with melanoma.

I know you're worried now and I know the operation is expensive, but the best thing you can do for your baby is get a biopsy done so you know one way or the other what is going on. Even benign tumors can turn cancerous if given time. See if the vet would be willing to work out a payment option for you. Mine was very flexible and allowed me to pay half upfront and billed me the remaining the following month. Look at some options in terms of extraction but I do think they need to be put under for proper removal and stitching to be done. As other's have said, in the meantime keep an eye on the growth and make sure if it gets bigger that you take her in. The problem with cancer is that while you might think everything is on the surface, there could be metastasis going on that you are not aware of. If this is the case, you aren't going to know until her health is tanking. Reptiles by and large are hard to detect illness with. It takes a while for you to know something is wrong and by that time the situation can be worse. I'm glad that her eating and behavior is normal though! That's a great sign! My beardie, despite having her tumors, eats and moves about as well (though admittedly she doesn't move around frequently but I suspect she is just old - as she is a rescue her age is unknown).

Sienna's melanoma looks very different from Mexi's lump. None of her tumors are raised, but they are flat and black as if her scales are rotting. This does not mean that this is the case 100% of the time. I have seen videos of maligent tumors being removed from reptiles that are raised above the surface. This is only to show you there are differences in the way melanoma can manifest. Below are some images for you to take a peek at to see the difference.

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This is a recent darkening of her scales on her tail. Probably in the last month or so this has shown up and I've been having to monitor it.

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I know this is going to be hard to see due to lighting and due to her skin being dark already (that's why I included a small shot of circle A). However, Sienna's melanoma is all over her body to the point that it's almost impossible to extract them due to size. When she was getting surgery done to remove a much larger mass (which was not melanoma but a epidermal inclusion cyst), the vet removed the largest cluster of black scales to be sent into the pathology lab. All of those circles contain tiny pin point black dots where the melanoma has begun to or has been spreed(ing). They are very hard to discern in this light but I've been handling her long enough to know where they are on her... and then some. She has them all over her body; feet, belly, tail, beard, but the most is on her back where her natural darker pigment is. I could get a better photo showing you how many are on her if she get's scared as she turns ash grey. But I'm not about to frighten her just to make a point on a photo. :p

When I got the pathology report, it was noted that the samples were so heavily pigmented that the lab techs could not do a proper cell count. The one positive to all this is that when she was undergoing her operation, the vet did not see signs of metastasis inside Sienna's body. The only reason we had to cut her open was because the vet discovered Sienna was egg bound and so I had the vet desex her and remove all those eggs.

I know, deep down, I will lose her to cancer. I've already consulted with the vet regarding additional treatment but at this point, extraction is the only advisable method of regulating her cancer. Just like you don't want to put Mexi through stress, I don't want to stress Sienna out with repeat surgery either. That will have an impact on her well being just as much as dealing with the cancer. Honestly, it's a rock and a hard place. Ultimately, I decided that I'm going to forgo future operations on her unless a sizable mass occurs. I just want her to live the rest of the days she has with as little stress as possible. Thus far, she has been doing very well!

Anyway, that's my experience so far with cancer and a beardie. I do urge you to have a test done just to be on the safeside but ultimately it's your choice on how you want to proceed. I wish you and Mexi luck in this and I hope the growth doesn't get bigger.
 

MexisMom

Member
Original Poster
THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR YOUR INSIGHTFUL POST! You seem to have a lot of knowledge on the subject as well as experience. I have read Siennas story and it heart warming and you are an amazing person for having rescued her and put forth the effort that you have in healing and helping her. I wish you both the best. I truly appreciate the pictures and response. I am going to follow my gut and wait to see if it gets any larger or darker in color because it is not causing her any distress and I will worry and make myself sick leaving her at the vet to go under for surgery, I just cant bring myself to do that but I promise I will if I notice any changes in months to come. Most the advice I have been getting is to keep monitor on her and that is what I will do because even if this is what takes her life, if it doesn't take her life for another 4 years I will be happy given there existing life span. I haven't discussed financing options with my vet but I may do that just to have a plan incase we have to biopsy but It would still be hard financially to keep up any vet work :( Thank you again for your detailed post and I pray everyday that it is not cancerous but that is all I can do besides provide her the best life I can offer her. The vet didn't offer any testing without going under, he said he cant do local anesthesia and I haven't asked about scraping it but I think that could be risky in spreading the cells etc. The vet that was hopeful and said it could just be keratin said I COULD SCRAPE IT, HECK NO! I don't know why he would even say that but I am guessing because I described it as scab like. Anyway, good luck with sienna and I hope we can remain updated and keep in touch. Thanks, Candra aka MexisMom
 
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