Bearded dragon underweight and has MBD.

[clearlyjoyful]

This is mostly old news. However, I weighed him today and he's only 85 grams. He's almost 6 years old (actually, probably more like a little over 6 years old now) and I'm aware that this is less than half the weight he should be. He has MBD and we've known that since around April of this year. He was staying with my mom for a long time after I moved out because I couldn't take him with me, but he moved in with me in April, when we found out he had MBD. He's since been revamped in almost every way possible. He was switched from sand to tiles (and then to placemats since I haven't gotten his newest tiles in there yet), he's gotten a much more varied diet (when he lived with my mom he ate almost solely bok choy and whatever fruit my mom had - kiwi or grapes, usually), his bulbs have both been replaced (he hadn't had one replaced in a while, which I suspect was the main cause of the MBD), he gets all his food calcium-ized, and he's bathed often.

Today, he had his bath and when I took him out, I let him run around on the floor, as I usually do. When he's out he rarely sits still, he just likes to go. But as he was sitting, before he started to scamper, I noticed he was twitching all down his body - from beard to tip of his tail. Previously, it was just in his hips/back legs/tail that was twitching, so it's spread. I'm sort of at a loss as to what to do now. I'll give all the answers to the questions in a second, I just wanted to state what the main issue is and it's the twitching. His leg muscles aren't very developed, and his weight is low, but we have a very limited variety of worms, etc to give him here in Ontario, Canada. And if anyone FROM Ontario, Canada gets insects shipped in, please let me know from where and specifics on how? I tried to with one store but I can't remember what it was called, and it didn't work out. They wanted to ship to Alberta and have me drive there to pick them up?? I don't even know. I just need help!

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Age of dragon: around 6 years.
How long have I had him?: Around 6 years, but like I said, he was living with my mom for a while, around maybe 2 years.
How long is he: About 18".
What is the sex: Male.
What size enclosure: 40 gallon breeder.
What type substrate: Right now, placemats, but ultimately tiles. Nothing edible, though.
UVB lights: Yes - ReptiSun 10.0.
How close can your dragon get: Closer than the recommended 6-8", maybe 4" or so? I'm still trying to figure out how to remedy this. Please let me know if this could be the problem, or A problem.
Do you use a separate basking bulb: Yes, it is a 100 watt and it's white.
What are the basking temps?: 90 F.
What is the cool side temp: Around 75-80 F.
Temps: Are taken with a probe thermometer on top of the basking log.
No heat rock/pad.
What do you feed him: Veggie wise, he gets a lot of escarole and endive, occasionally kale. He likes squash, carrots, kiwi, grapes. He also gets baby food, usually squash, but occasionally other flavours, because he doesn't eat enough veggies, I feel. Protein wise, he gets crickets and superworms.
How often do you feed and what time: He gets veggies offered every day and he also gets fed live prey once daily. Usually around 6 or 7 pm, sometimes earlier. He'll get about 12x either crickets OR worms. They're dusted and gutloaded. He gets veggies in the mornings and they stay there all day and replaced the next morning.
He gets calcium supplements whenever he gets protein, and his veggies are dusted with calcium 2x a week, and dusted with multivitamins 1x a week.
He's pooping irregularly right now, I assume because of the lack of veggie foods. Which is why he's going back on baby food.
He gets baths usually once or twice a week. He doesn't get misted. He's been to the vet before and he's had a fecal which came up clean.
And lastly, he's a solitary dragon.

 

[AHBD]

Hi there....wow, poor fella, are you sure he's just 85 grams at 18" ? That's true emaciation. Keep up the calcium and veggies, go very easy on the bugs [ especially superworms ] so that his system can handle them. You don't want him to vomit. You can give daily baths as well, he is probably dehydrated. In his condition, he can go either way....the shaking is worrisome, but is there any deformity ? Bowed legs, underbite, lump on back or crooked tail ? Try to get his basking temp. up to 95 - 100. Hopefully he will make it. Do you have a good reptile vet ? It may be a good idea to take him, but only if they truly are good with bearded dragons. You might get some critical care supplemental food for him.

 

[clearlyjoyful]

Hi there....wow, poor fella, are you sure he's just 85 grams at 18" ? That's true emaciation. Keep up the calcium and veggies, go very easy on the bugs [ especially superworms ] so that his system can handle them. You don't want him to vomit. You can give daily baths as well, he is probably dehydrated. In his condition, he can go either way....the shaking is worrisome, but is there any deformity ? Bowed legs, underbite, lump on back or crooked tail ? Try to get his basking temp. up to 95 - 100. Hopefully he will make it. Do you have a good reptile vet ? It may be a good idea to take him, but only if they truly are good with bearded dragons. You might get some critical care supplemental food for him.

Well, you're right, I'm going to try and re-weigh him tomorrow using some sort of container to keep his whole weight on the scale. I was just trying to do it with him sitting on it and now I'm wondering if all his limbs, including his tail were included. He's not emaciated, though you can tell he's underweight. He's got a belly, that's for sure, but very thin limbs and you can see protuding hip bones. That's why it's so confusing to me. 85 does sound pretty low for his length, now that I think about it. He's gone to bed, so I'll weigh tomorrow and update.

He has been dehydrated so he's been getting extra baths (which he has no issue with whatsoever). And the bugs he's fine with eating. You're right though, I'll try and ease up. It's just worrisome because he eats little veggies. But the baby food will supplement that, I suppose. There's minor deformities, like the receding jaw typical of MBD and his limbs being very thin and containing little muscle mass. Nothing wrong with his back. His tail is crooked but it is also... dead, if that's the right term. He's had a dead tail that probably should have been amputated. But it's a previous injury that he's had since before he was mine when he was at Petsmart. He's been to the vet, and back then he was way worse off. He has improved, other than the tremors getting worse. Like, his weight is more than it was then. I ordered Critical Care from Beautifuldragons along with liquid calcium. He's been on Reptaboost, but I haven't given it to him in a while, so I might try that again. Honestly, I'm not too sure of the vet's experience with bearded dragons, but she's the only one in the area. My friend also has a bearded dragon, and he had an accident where something fell on his tail, and she amputated it and he's doing well, so I guess that's something. I will lower his bulb to see if I can up his basking temps.

So to do:
- Up basking temps to 95-100
- Re-weigh with a container of some sort
- Restart him on Reptaboost
- More baths (if possible)

It's been a long ways, but I thought he was getting better since he was gaining weight, but the tremors are so worrying. It's frustrating, since I'm doing everything I can, and it seems like we're backpedaling now. Thanks for replying, I really appreciate it!

 

[AHBD]

Oh, you may be right....and the scale could be off as well, but when part of their body hangs off you can get an incorrect reading. So if you have had him since April and he's been eating bugs since then,you should continue because ne needs all the protein he can get. Hopefully extra calcium + good food and hydration will help him out.

 

[clearlyjoyful]

Oh, you may be right....and the scale could be off as well, but when part of their body hangs off you can get an incorrect reading. So if you have had him since April and he's been eating bugs since then,you should continue because ne needs all the protein he can get. Hopefully extra calcium + good food and hydration will help him out.

Okay, good. He really loves his bugs. I really really wish it wasn't winter here, because in April after his vet's appointment I started taking him outside almost daily to get natural sunlight and it did WONDERS, but I can't do that now

 

[clearlyjoyful]

Okay, so it turns out I'm just really dumb. I weighed him again today, but this time instead of just laying a cloth over the scale, I put him in a pan and zeroed it to the pan. He's actually 538g, which I understand is a decent weight for a full-grown beardie of his length. A user on Reddit.com has been helping me also, and she and I have sort of figured out the problem is probably the supplements I've been using. So I'm going to switch those and see if that helps.

In case you were wondering, here are some pictures of my little guy!
http://imgur.com/a/8Uph9/

 

[sweetpea1981]

Very cute dragon!!

 

[clearlyjoyful]

Very cute dragon!!

Haha, he and I both thank you!

 

[AHBD]

He actually looks great weight - wise. He is not underweight in the least. For the shakes, he may need vitamin B supplement.

 

[clearlyjoyful]

He actually looks great weight - wise. He is not underweight in the least. For the shakes, he may need vitamin B supplement.

Thanks! Now that I'm looking at other peoples' bearded dragons, I'm mostly just noticing he doesn't have the beard flab (I don't know what it's actually called) and his arms and legs are less fatty than others', but that's probably the lack of muscle development. He has slight bowing of his back legs, too, which makes them look a little different. I'm glad to hear that his weight is looking good though, when I first got him in April he looked like the picture below and he's improved so much in that area. I'm so glad.

Doehannah on Reddit.com suggested different Calcium and D3 supplements and her reasoning for this makes a lot of sense to me. Now that that whole area has been explained, I've gotten those different supplements and we'll have to just try those out and see if they make a difference. I'll keep the Vitamin B supplement in mind, though, thank you!