Bearded dragon threw up, poops on himself, rejects any food

[Gormagon]

The husbandry issue has been covered and, it is now up to you on which way to go with all of the good advice you have gotten.
My question is, why did the snake reject it? If the snake rejected it, he did so for good reason... Something wasn't right!
Once a snake has had it in its mouth, I don't think I would want my dragon eating it, it could cause infection and, fungal issues.

 

[premammalian]

Please don't feed 72 mealworms in one feeding, there are many other live insects you can feed him that will be more nutritious, he'll eat less and you'll save money, and you won't be risking impaction. If he has to eat 72 mealworms in one feeding then you'd be much better off feeding him large dubias or crickets.

And as just repeated, it's not bogus at all, they cannot tell they are being burned on their bellies from underneath. As far as "how to get his temps correct", it's a matter of trying different bulb wattages at different heights. No, you don't need 3 basking bulbs, you should only need one long UVB tube (has little to nothing to do with temperature gradient) and one bright white halogen flood bulb over his main basking spot. The way I do it is set up the UVB tube right alongside the halogen flood basking bulb so he'll get both while basking, and try different wattages and moving the basking bulb up and down until I get the basking spot temperature correct. Then measure the temp on the cold side. If it's colder than 75 degrees you may want to add another low wattage basking bulb on the cold side, or put your heating mat underneath the enclosure on the cold side. It's just a matter of playing around with the wattages and heights of both the bulbs and the basking platform.

Please put your bearded dragon outside on a sunny day on a piece of metal and observe its behavior. It would leave after a few seconds. They can feel the heat from below as well as from above and from the side and generally from everywhere like any other normal animal. Also bearded dragons are acrodonts for a reason, to chew hard things. Do you want to mix up his poop and send a photo to prove that mealworms get digested? When I say I don't keep a bearded dragon like a baby, I refer to these exact things. They are perfectly capable of digesting any insect, can swallow small stones with no ill effects, can feel heat from everywhere on their bodies can withstand cold temperatures in winter etc. They are evolved for a much harsher environment than we imagine.

 

[premammalian]

The husbandry issue has been covered and, it is now up to you on which way to go with all of the good advice you have gotten.
My question is, why did the snake reject it? If the snake rejected it, he did so for good reason... Something wasn't right!
Once a snake has had it in its mouth, I don't think I would want my dragon eating it, it could cause infection and, fungal issues.

The snake didn't put it in its mouth. It is a rosy boa that can reject a prey if disturbed. That was the day I brought the bearded dragon home and reconnected his electrical equipment, so probably it felt stressed by all the noise and movements of objects and cables around the whole room.

 

[premammalian]

Hey there, it's good to hear that he's eating again. Throwing up a large meal is never an emergency, it just means they ate too much or the wrong thing or too fast. [ Not enough heat for digestion can also cause vomiting ] They pretty much always recuperate quickly. Just wondering if yiou have other insects available. ? While I don't agree with the opinion that mealworms should never be fed, they can cause problems if fed in very large amounts. [ For those who say that mealworms are worthless, just look up an insect nutritional chart ]

So it would be good if you had other insects as a staple. And no, it's not true that beardies can't feel belly heat, but it is true that at times they can't tell that they are actually being burned, that's why heat rocks are hardly ever used because they can be dangerous. But beardies also get burned from above with a strong spot basking bulb....there have been several on here in the past year or so that had burns. So they can be burned from above or below if there's a hot spot that they don't realize that they need to get away from quickly enough. Maybe you could put the heat pad under the tank as was mentioned or just get a higher watt basking bulb.

I can also feed dubias, crickets, red runners, pachnodas, waxworms and grasshoppers. Now it happens to be mealworm time in my collection, as my colony is producing in full force and the stapple this month is mealworms, but that doesn't mean they don't eat dubias, crickets and other insects.
Recently I noticed weight loss from all these stressful situations. I noticed slight protrusion of the pelvic bones and tail spine, and a small shrinkage of the overall tail, particularly the tip. The belly and underside of the tail base still remain normal. I hope it is caused by the recent events and not something worse.
The only time my dragon was burnt was very early when I was installing the tank equipment, when I had the lamp too close to the basking spot and on day its tail tip made brief contact with the lamp or lamp fixture, when he was jumping down, creating a small burn that healed on its own. It was an accident, not a prolonged exposure.

 

[traildrifterphalanx]

I honestly give up trying to reason with you.
Everyone that has responded has been trying to help prolong a healthy life for your dragon, but all you do is defend every action we're trying to help correct. Just because dragons do one thing in the wild doesn't mean it needs to be replicated at home. There's a reason their life span is so much shorter in the wild, and trying to give your dragon a long, happy life isn't babying it. It's raising it right. The natural way =/= the healthy way.

No, a mealworm here and there isn't going to hurt your dragon, but 72 in one sitting is complete overkill, and believe it or not, the chitin in mealworms and superworms does not fully digest regardless of what you believe. This is why certified vets and experiences keepers always suggest against mealworms. Even for Pacman frogs, chameleons, and other herps, mealworms are always shunned. They are not a great staple feeder due to sub-par nutrition and impaction risks. This isn't opinion. It is fact. Why risk your dragon's life?

Look, whether they detect heat from below is moot, that heating pad is dangerous and I hope you removed it.

I'm honestly very tired of reading you make up or refer to outdated facts to back your habits to justify yourself. That kind of mentality is honestly toxic for this forum. There are new users here daily looking for help that the responsible members are trying to set on the right path, and misguided information can hurt their pets and betray their trust. You have many veteran keepers responding to you here and all telling you the same thing and you continue to unnecessarily fight back. So be it, it's your dragon, unfortunately.

This is the last I'm replying here as there is no point trying to help someone who doesn't even listen. Let it be known we were all trying to help.

I wish the best for your dragon.

 

[Gormagon]

You see, most if not all of the folks on here treat there dragons like one of their kids, myself included! We as a group don't always agree on things but, this is the biggest thing we have in common!
It seems to me that you don't see your dragon in this manner. I'm sorry if that offends you but, this is just an observation.

 

[premammalian]

I honestly give up trying to reason with you.
Everyone that has responded has been trying to help prolong a healthy life for your dragon, but all you do is defend every action we're trying to help correct. Just because dragons do one thing in the wild doesn't mean it needs to be replicated at home. There's a reason their life span is so much shorter in the wild, and trying to give your dragon a long, happy life isn't babying it. It's raising it right. The natural way =/= the healthy way.

No, a mealworm here and there isn't going to hurt your dragon, but 72 in one sitting is complete overkill, and believe it or not, the chitin in mealworms and superworms does not fully digest regardless of what you believe. This is why certified vets and experiences keepers always suggest against mealworms. Even for Pacman frogs, chameleons, and other herps, mealworms are always shunned. They are not a great staple feeder due to sub-par nutrition and impaction risks. This isn't opinion. It is fact. Why risk your dragon's life?

Look, whether they detect heat from below is moot, that heating pad is dangerous and I hope you removed it.

I'm honestly very tired of reading you make up or refer to outdated facts to back your habits to justify yourself. That kind of mentality is honestly toxic for this forum. There are new users here daily looking for help that the responsible members are trying to set on the right path, and misguided information can hurt their pets and betray their trust. You have many veteran keepers responding to you here and all telling you the same thing and you continue to unnecessarily fight back. So be it, it's your dragon, unfortunately.

This is the last I'm replying here as there is no point trying to help someone who doesn't even listen. Let it be known we were all trying to help.

I wish the best for your dragon.

Go and find me evidence from here that mealworms are dangerous for dragons. And not maybe very ill, dehydrated dragons, but healthy normal ones. Dragons are designed to eat beetles, also adult dubias have much more chitin and spiny legs, but they eat them fine. Propagating hearsay about mealworms and people not giving them due to fear isn't evidence. I have removed the heat pad, but I must find another way to heat the tank the next fall.
Once I asked a Dutch reptile breeder and researcher of nutritional value of insects and reptile diets, who has gone and studied the bearded dragon in the wild, about the impaction risk of mealworms, and he just laughed. I can give name if you need it so much. That tells it all. It is logically impossible for an animal designed to chew hard things to be endangered by a mealworm, which after all isn't the hardest insect. The mealworm is soft between the segments and when digested can fall appart quickly. The bearded dragon has an acrodont dentition, strong jaws and chews prey for a long time, all adaptations to eat hard things. Chitin is quite indigestible for most animals, but it functions like dietary fiber from plants and maintains likewise normal tone of the gut.

 

[premammalian]

You see, most if not all of the folks on here treat there dragons like one of their kids, myself included! We as a group don't always agree on things but, this is the biggest thing we have in common!
It seems to me that you don't see your dragon in this manner. I'm sorry if that offends you but, this is just an observation.

You got me wrong. I didn't say if we love our dragons or not, just that many people treat them like literal babies, that is utterly incompetent animals that are unable to cover even their basic biological needs on their own.

 

[traildrifterphalanx]

Seriously, you quoted my text but failed to read the part that I'm done responding to you, so let me wrap this up.

You don't care about input from this forum of experienced keepers and breeders, so why are you even here? What is the point of you reaching out for help when you reject all of it?

Do your damn research instead of making up your own facts. It takes 1 google search to pull up hundreds of threads, pages, etc on the matter of heat pads, mice, and mealworms. I'm not saying they are incapable of eating mealworms and that they'll immediately die, but no they are not ideal. Period. One laughing "expert" does not mean he is correct. Seriously, are you trolling right now? Your care for your dragon is in the opposite direction of ANYTHING ever recommended by experienced keepers and breeders of ANY reptile, but if you want to continue on your path of destruction, you're clearly the knowledgeable one and everyone else is wrong, that's the only logical answer, right?

Reply all you want to this page, I am done talking to you. You are not worth my time. I feel badly for your dragon and the dangerous life you've made for him.