Bearded Dragon sick need help!

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Hi everybody, my bearded dragon Spike is in bad shape and the problem is I have no idea why, and my vet explanation makes no sense to me. This will be long post because I want to post all that has happened to my bearded dragon. Hopefully one of you guys can help me out.
First things first, Spikes husbandry;
Cage 40 gallon tank 18 height by 18 deep and 3 feet long
Lighting, Solar Sun Glo 125 watt
Heating pad under cage.
Temperature 90F
Substrate newspaper
Rock and a few Pet store logs for climbing.
Now I will tell you what happened. Spike was doing fine. I fed him crickets everyday and some veggies although he was not much a veggie eater only eating one or two pieces. But then I started notice some problems. His front legs became stiff and almost immobile, making limp around. At the same time he lost his appetite and becoming less active. I brush this off as possible brumation but the stiff front arms was concerning. I thought he might have metabolic bone disease. So I took him to the only vet I could find in my area that looks at exotic reptiles.

We took a stool sample and an X-ray. Stool showed no possible parasites. The X-ray showed that there seems to be nothing wrong with Spikes front legs however the vet told me his hind legs were bent and possible start of metabolic bone disease. I told him the lighting I had before which I will admit was not really good. So he suggested getting UVB UVA and heat light all in one bulb PowerSun by zoo med. He also gave me medicine to help his appetite come back and some Calcium syrup to help with his calcium level while I search for the bulb. The visit costed 300 dollars (Yikes). After this it took a few weeks for spike to start eating again. I went to a few different pet stores asking them if they could ship the bulb the vet recommended. The pet stores did not have the bulb but one said they had Solar Glo UVB bulb which they told me was the same bulb as the one vet said only it was just a different brand. So I bought the bulb.

Spikes appetite came back after a week. Everything seemed to go back to normal. After about 5 months his front legs became stiff again only this time it was all of his legs and was worse to the point he would not move unless I provoked him to do so. So I took him to the vet again and same thing as last time. Stool showed no parasites. The vet had no idea what could be causing the problems with his legs. He wanted to do blood work to determine his health and gave me the same medicine as before for his appetite and calcium. By the end of the visit it was 400$. Yep I spent 700$ on Spike. I did not realize that it was this expensive to help a bearded dragon.

Anyways this was 2 week ago but Spike has not gotten better. I believe giving the medicine has actually made him even worse. He began throwing up the medicine. I was almost crying as I have never seen a bearded dragon throwup before. He also began to ignore me as in anytime I tried to hold him he shut his eyes and try to get away. He must have been so stressed. I got him to eat a few crickets but the next day he threw them up. I tell you this throw up was worse. He puked up the cricket parts undigested and just this brown color. I suspected it might be from the crickets in his stomach but I am not sure.I then gave him a bath with Pedilyte water which he drank only to have him throw it up the next hour. The vet soon called and said his bloodwork seemed to be all normal. He said his kidney function was normal and his calcium level is normal so can't be metabolic bone disease. He said stop giving him the medicine since it was pointless now. I told him he threw up. He said he does not know what is wrong with him. He then asked if I did everything he told me to do. He then asked about what bulb I got and I told I had bought the Solar Glo bulb to which he said that was the wrong bulb and he had recommended the PowerSun UVB bulb by Zoo Med telling me that the Solar Glo bulb said it was synthetic and was bad knock off. Because I didn't buy the right bulb he blames that is the reason he has been having problems. He also said by the time a bearded dragon is throwing up the damage his already been done. He said I could bring him in and give him medicine for throwing up and show me how to feed him through syringe which possibly have to do for the rest of his life since he refuses to eat.

At this point I have already spent almost 1000 dollars on him and I don't think I could feed him through a tube the rest of his life as he hates it. I am thinking of just putting him down. I love him but I don't think he is going to get better. I still have no idea what went wrong. The vet blames the bulb but that makes no sense because one he said his calcium level is normal so shouldn't that mean the UVB Solar Glo bulb did it's job? And two all the other people I have called they say they use that exact same bulb. I would also I like to point out I had one bearded dragon before Spike named Yoshi and he lived to be 10 years old and I didn't even have some of the right stuff. I never had problems with him, but I have learned from then.

So I would like to ask what do you guys think went wrong? I really wish Spike would get better but if he throws up one more time I going to put him down. I am sorry if I have been a terrible owner in anyway. Can someone please help, thank you.
 

CooperDragon

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Can you post some photos of spike and his habitat? I'd like to take a look at him and his housing to see if anything stands out as a possible issue. Do you have a copy of the blood work report? You can upload photos here https://www.beardeddragon.org/useruploads/ and post them using the XIMG button.
 

Spooky799kil

Member
Original Poster
CooperDragon":3svz9dc4 said:
Can you post some photos of spike and his habitat? I'd like to take a look at him and his housing to see if anything stands out as a possible issue. Do you have a copy of the blood work report? You can upload photos here https://www.beardeddragon.org/useruploads/ and post them using the XIMG button.

I will have to call the Vet and have him give me the blood work, in the mean time here is some photos of Spike

84807-6115374751.jpg
84807-4287801301.jpg
See how his font arms go back. Especially when he goes sleep they go fully backwards and can't keep them infront of himself most of time limping around. He can make them walk forward but he can't make them balance him making fall on his stomach.
84807-5805224175.jpg
In this photo I show myself pushing on his leg. Its stiff and it hurts him apparently when I do that. He struggles when I do it too.
84807-345562138.jpg
84807-2509911643.jpg
His right front leg is actually bigger and bloated compared to his left. I don't know if you can tell from the photo but if you were holding him he would be able to tell how stiff and bloated it is and how he can barley move it.[
84807-917405244.jpg
Here he moved away from me and limped over. He tried licking around to feel but look likes he has really bad sight as he had trouble touching the item he was licking (cord).
Heres all of the photos of his habitat.
84807-1844627932.jpg
84807-7347927829.jpg
84807-3652875605.jpg
84807-7250373568.jpg
84807-1846936746.jpg
I really want to know what I have done wrong. Thanks for your help.
 

destiny1998

Extreme Poster
Photo Comp Winner
Hi. Im sorry this is happening to that cute fellow :D . I have a beardie with gout and his feet and arms look like mine does. Before I got Daizy diagnosed his back legs just quit working and then I noticed his front hand was swollen and so was his lower arm. He now takes allopurinol every day and with in a few days he could move his back legs. He still has a stiffness when he walks but gets around pretty good. Especially during mating season when he sees the female. :D
 

Spooky799kil

Member
Original Poster
destiny1998":3lw0cbc0 said:
Hi. Im sorry this is happening to that cute fellow :D . I have a beardie with gout and his feet and arms look like mine does. Before I got Daizy diagnosed his back legs just quit working and then I noticed his front hand was swollen and so was his lower arm. He now takes allopurinol every day and with in a few days he could move his back legs. He still has a stiffness when he walks but gets around pretty good. Especially during mating season when he sees the female. :D

How much is that going to cost? As said above I have already spent 700 dollars and I don't think I can afford to spend more especially if he is in a state beyond repair.
 

CooperDragon

BD.org Sicko
Staff member
Moderator
I agree that the swelling looks like it could be gout. If the blood work shows elevated uric acid levels that may help to confirm. If gout is the problem it certainly can be treated but it's a constant process rather than a treatment and cure. One of my guys was on Allopurinol as well but I don't recall the cost of the medication. I don't remember it being very expensive though. In the meantime, you could offer some dark cherry extract which can help reduce uric acid in joints the way Allopurinol would. If the kidneys are stressed there could also be dehydration so I'd offer extra water via dropper to ensure he is well hydrated. If we're correct, this is a treatable condition and it's worth pursuing treatment in my opinion.
 

Spooky799kil

Member
Original Poster
CooperDragon":3cltsjxl said:
I agree that the swelling looks like it could be gout. If the blood work shows elevated uric acid levels that may help to confirm. If gout is the problem it certainly can be treated but it's a constant process rather than a treatment and cure. One of my guys was on Allopurinol as well but I don't recall the cost of the medication. I don't remember it being very expensive though. In the meantime, you could offer some dark cherry extract which can help reduce uric acid in joints the way Allopurinol would. If the kidneys are stressed there could also be dehydration so I'd offer extra water via dropper to ensure he is well hydrated. If we're correct, this is a treatable condition and it's worth pursuing treatment in my opinion.

The Vet never mentioned gout. When he looked in his mouth he said it was healthy if I remember correctly. If you guys are correct I wish I would have asked you before wasting all that money for no results. But as I said when I gave water he threw it up within the hour. I will try again but I fear he will throw up again. Anyways may I ask if my Set up is alright for him and how did he develop gout?
 

CooperDragon

BD.org Sicko
Staff member
Moderator
The setup looks pretty good. I'd add some hides perhaps so he can move out of the light if he wants to. How far above the basking log is your MVB? I'd keep that at least 12'' away and add a regular basking light or ceramic heat emitter to get the temps up to the right level. How are you measuring the 90 degrees? I'd try to set it up so the top of the log is at around 100-105 with areas around the log in the 90s and the cool side of the tank near the food should read about 75-80 using a temp gun or digital thermometer with a probe.

Gout can be caused by genetics or diet or possibly another illness which is affecting kidney function. The gout diagnosis is just a guess on my part at this point. It could be something else or could be one of multiple issues. Beginning treatment with the dark cherry extract won't hurt though and may help his system out along with the hydration. It may be worth it to have some milk thistle on hand to administer in case there is an issue with the liver as well. The blood test results may reveal more about what's going on.
 

Spooky799kil

Member
Original Poster
CooperDragon":9oq1n257 said:
The setup looks pretty good. I'd add some hides perhaps so he can move out of the light if he wants to. How far above the basking log is your MVB? I'd keep that at least 12'' away and add a regular basking light or ceramic heat emitter to get the temps up to the right level. How are you measuring the 90 degrees? I'd try to set it up so the top of the log is at around 100-105 with areas around the log in the 90s and the cool side of the tank near the food should read about 75-80 using a temp gun or digital thermometer with a probe.

Gout can be caused by genetics or diet or possibly another illness which is affecting kidney function. The gout diagnosis is just a guess on my part at this point. It could be something else or could be one of multiple issues. Beginning treatment with the dark cherry extract won't hurt though and may help his system out along with the hydration. It may be worth it to have some milk thistle on hand to administer in case there is an issue with the liver as well. The blood test results may reveal more about what's going on.

Ok thank you. What do think about the vet saying that Solar Glo UVB bulb is the culprit for his problem and causing health issues. I forgot to mention that he said when I get the new bulb he recommended, PowerSun UVB by Zoo med he said put it on 24/7 for few days as therapy. I am getting his bulb but since I think its not the bulb that is the problem, I don't know if I should leave it on for that long.
 

CooperDragon

BD.org Sicko
Staff member
Moderator
It's hard to say for sure without measuring the output using a solar meter. Based on what I've read about those bulbs, they are inconsistent due to frequent changes in manufacturers. Testing that was done by Frances Baines showed a significant decrease in output over a very short time from the 125w. The 160w version she tested had lower UVB output right out of the box. Given that information I wouldn't trust that bulb without being able to measure the UVB output. Improper UVB exposure can certainly have significant health impacts but I can't say for sure if that's the case here.

If you want to play it safe, I'd replace the bulb with one that is known to be more consistent. If you want to continue using a MVB, I suggest either a MegaRay or Arcadia. Otherwise I'd get a T5 tube and fixture from either Arcadia or ReptiSun - these are known to be consistent and reliable.

http://www.reptileuv.com/shop/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=65_67&products_id=181 This one mounted between about 14-20'' above the basking log would be good. You'd need to double check the temperatures and add a CHE or low wattage basking bulb next to it at a height that would provide appropriate basking temps on the log.
 

Spooky799kil

Member
Original Poster
CooperDragon":sqditqa7 said:
http://www.reptileuv.com/shop/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=65_67&products_id=181 This one mounted between about 14-20'' above the basking log would be good. You'd need to double check the temperatures and add a CHE or low wattage basking bulb next to it at a height that would provide appropriate basking temps on the log.


Sorry about the delay here is Spikes Blood work. Can you guys determine his problem by looking at this information?

Pet Name Species Breed Sex Pet Age Chart#
Spike M 2 Years N
Test Requested Results Adult Reference Range Units
CBC (Avian and Exotics)
WBC Estimate 15.8 1000/uL
WBC count estimated from smear.
HCT 50 (HIGH) 28-36 %
Verified by Microhematocrit Method
RBC Morphology
RBC MORPHOLOGY NORMAL
Blood Parasite None Seen
Differential Absolute % Adult Reference Range Units
Heterophils 5,056 32 1698-5445 /uL
Toxic Changes None Seen
Differential Absolute % Adult Reference Range Units
Lymphocytes 10,270 (HIGH) 65 0-5512 /uL
Monocytes 158 (HIGH) 1 0-144 /uL
Eosinophils 0 0 0-53 /uL
Basophils 0 0 0-279 /uL
Azuophilic Monocytes 316 2
Thromboycte Estimate Adequate
Test Requested Results Adult Reference Range Units
Reptilian Comprehensive Chemistry
Total Protein 9.2 g/dL
Albumin 4.4 g/dL
Globulin 4.8 g/dL
SGOT (AST) 35 IU/L
BUN 2 mg/dL
Phosphorus 5.3 mg/dL
Glucose 185 mg/dL
Calcium 17.3 mg/dL
Result Verified
Sodium 166 mEq/L
Potassium 2.6 mEq/L
Result Verified
Chloride 119 mEq/L
CPK 323 IU/L
Uric Acid 6.4 mg/dL
 

CooperDragon

BD.org Sicko
Staff member
Moderator
Most of those numbers look normal as far as I know, but I don't have very much experience with blood test results yet. You may want to ask Tracie for her thoughts on the results. She knows quite a bit more about it than I do.
 

Spooky799kil

Member
Original Poster
CooperDragon":21jn1ts0 said:
Most of those numbers look normal as far as I know, but I don't have very much experience with blood test results yet. You may want to ask Tracie for her thoughts on the results. She knows quite a bit more about it than I do.
How do I contact Tracie? Also Spike has stopped throwing up and now is eating like a pig. Unfortunately haven't been able to get him to eat vegetables. So if it is just gout that is his problem I will buy Black cherry extract as you instructed. Thanks for your help.
 

CooperDragon

BD.org Sicko
Staff member
Moderator
It's great that his appetite is up! As far as gout goes, I'm not sure if that's the problem. The uric acid levels are right in the middle of the acceptable range as far as I know (1.6-11.4) and these would be higher in the case of gout. The BUN (blood urea nitrogen) levels are a little high but not by a lot (<1 - 2). Again, this is just a slightly educated guess on my part and I'm not certain what all of the fields in the results mean. The high BUN could indicate a kidney issue or just dehydration but I'm not certain. Offering him some extra water may help with this. Drop some water on his nose a few times per day and see if he'll lick it up. Make sure the bugs he eats are well hydrated as well. Tracie may be monitoring this thread but if you don't hear from her, you can try sending a PM to her (username Drache613)
 
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