Bearded dragon lethargic and gaping mouth at UVB light

[Gtauferner]

Hello! I do not know how problematic this is but I am very troubled.
My bearded dragon, Baelish, was acting perfectly fine yesterday but today he started acting lethargic, only ate half the amount he usually does, and just not acting normal. He is only about 3 months, has a 40 gallon tank, a 100 watt UVA basking light (white light), and a 100 watt UVB bulb. I am currently saving up money for a UVB tube set up for him. His set up has a good temperature gradient from 100-105 on basking side and 75-80 of cooling side. He also has a large branch that gives him the ability to get as close as he wants to his UVB and UVA lights.

I am currently troubled because of his recent lethargica and I went out and bought a new bulb for his UVB that is the same as the other and when I turned it on over him he gaped his mouth at it and moved away from it. Now that i have turned his basking lights off and he is ready for bed, he has still gaped his mouth at it and ran away. He is now off his log and on the ground where he is further from the UVB light but is not gaping his mouth at it any more. He is still lethargic and does not move unless he has to put is still keeping his head up and is acknowledges me when i walk past his cage
I have also clipped his nails recently but he did not bleed. His feces are normal and regular

I owned a beardie when i was little and just recently decided to get him (had hime for 2 months). I have already had him treated for metabolic bone disease early on because his past breeder did not give him calcium or good UVB. I do not know how urgent this is but it has me worried. I feel like a mother with her first born :lol:
Thank You!

 

[Drache613]

Hello,

Sorry your little one isn't feeling well.
What brand of UVB lighit are you using & is it a long fluorescent tube bulb or a compact/
coil type of light? Since you mentioned it was a 100 watt bulb, that is a Mercury vapor bulb
correct? How close is the light to him?
What are you using to measure the temperatures in the tank?
If you can take some pictures of him & the tank setup, that would be great.
Let us know what type of feeders he is eating & the sizes of them. Since he is a youngster,
he should definitely get calcium 4-5 times per week. Since you have already treated him
for metabolic bone disease, is he getting liquid calcium?

Tracie

 

[EllenD]

My guess is that your problem is the inadequate UVB bulb. A "100 watt" UVB bulb is either a Mercury Vapor Bulb, as Tracie already asked you, which are all-in-one bulbs that emit both UVB light and heat, which I highly doubt is what you have, or it's not actually a UVB bulb at all, as there are no UVB bulbs that are 100 watt unless they are Mercury Vapor Bulbs, because the "100 watt" is because they put of heat as well. But if you had a 40 gallon tank with a 100 watt bright white Basking Bulb and then a 100 watt Mercury Vapor Bulb, the temperatures inside the tank would be lethal! Typically the only Basking Bulb you need to gain proper temperatures in a 40 gallon breeder tank is a single, bright white basking bulb that is around 100 watts, which you have...so the other 100 watt bulb is confusing, as it's most likely not a UVB bulb at all, they aren't made in 100 watt varieties, the highest is around 26 watts. So if the temps you listed are accurate (taken by a Digital Probe Thermometer or a Temperature Gun, and not by a stick-on thermometer), then something isn't right here.

If you are using a stick-on thermometer then you absolutely do need to spend $10 on a Digital Probe Thermometer, as stick-on thermometers are usually very inaccurate and off by between 10-20 degrees when tested, plus, more importantly, you cannot at all measure his Basking Spot Temperature with a stick-on thermometer. The Basking Spot Temperature is a "surface" temperature, and stick-on thermometers only measure Ambient (air) temperatures. So either way you need to get a $10 Digital Probe Thermometer if you don't already have one, but even if you don't have one and are using only a stick-on thermometer, there is no way that you could have 200 watts of heat in a 40 gallon tank and be at those temperatures...so either you're cooking him with a 100 watt bright white Basking Bulb AND a 100 watt Mercury Vapor Bulb and the extremely hot temperatures are the issue, or he has no UVB light at all and that other 100 watt bulb isn't actually 100 watts...

Can you look right on the "UVB" bulb and tell us what it says? What brand name is it, and what model/wattage? And is it a compact bulb (regular lightbulb shape) or a coil/spiral bulb? Either way it's an inadequate UVb bulb, unless it is a Mercury Vapor Bulb, but if it is then you've got a serious temperature issue going on...He already has MBD, so it's natural for his appetite to go away and for him to become very lethargic if you are not using a long, UVB tube that is at least a 10% tube, preferably you want a T5 strength UVB tube for a Bearded Dragon (you can buy a 22" Reptisun 10.0 T5HO UVB tube on Amazon.com for $23 and get a package deal for a matching 24" T5-rated tube Fixture with a Metal Reflector included for under $50 shipped). This is much more appropriate for a Bearded Dragon than the much weaker T8 UVB tubes (which for some reason are also more expensive than the stronger T5 tubes, especially if you are looking at them in Petco or PetSmart, or really any pet shop, as a shorter and much weaker 18" Reptisun 10.0 T8 UVB tube alone, with no fixture, costs $37 at Petco or PetSmart!)

Please post some photos of your dragon, and then his complete setup with his lights included, but most importantly we need to clear up what this "UVB" bulb is, as either way this is the cause of his issues. My best guess is that it's not a UVB bulb at all, and his calcium deficiency is worsening and following the natural downward spiral that it does when a desert reptile like a Bearded Dragon, who's survival literally depends on adequate and very strong UVB light for at least 13-14 hours a day, doesn't get this required UVB light...

 

[Gtauferner]

Hello,

Sorry your little one isn't feeling well.
What brand of UVB lighit are you using & is it a long fluorescent tube bulb or a compact/
coil type of light? Since you mentioned it was a 100 watt bulb, that is a Mercury vapor bulb
correct? How close is the light to him?
What are you using to measure the temperatures in the tank?
If you can take some pictures of him & the tank setup, that would be great.
Let us know what type of feeders he is eating & the sizes of them. Since he is a youngster,
he should definitely get calcium 4-5 times per week. Since you have already treated him
for metabolic bone disease, is he getting liquid calcium?

It is a bulb 75 watt (sorry i was thinking of his basking light). The light is about a foot away from him unless he goes on his hammock or brach, then he is about 7-6 inches away from it.
I use a Heat gun for him!
He is eating medium size crickets that are gut loaded with juvenile baby dragon pellets and i dust them every day.
The vet said that he should be fine with out it. But if he starts having tremors again to go ahead and give him the medication again

Tracie

 

[Gtauferner]

My guess is that your problem is the inadequate UVB bulb. A "100 watt" UVB bulb is either a Mercury Vapor Bulb, as Tracie already asked you, which are all-in-one bulbs that emit both UVB light and heat, which I highly doubt is what you have, or it's not actually a UVB bulb at all, as there are no UVB bulbs that are 100 watt unless they are Mercury Vapor Bulbs, because the "100 watt" is because they put of heat as well. But if you had a 40 gallon tank with a 100 watt bright white Basking Bulb and then a 100 watt Mercury Vapor Bulb, the temperatures inside the tank would be lethal! Typically the only Basking Bulb you need to gain proper temperatures in a 40 gallon breeder tank is a single, bright white basking bulb that is around 100 watts, which you have...so the other 100 watt bulb is confusing, as it's most likely not a UVB bulb at all, they aren't made in 100 watt varieties, the highest is around 26 watts. So if the temps you listed are accurate (taken by a Digital Probe Thermometer or a Temperature Gun, and not by a stick-on thermometer), then something isn't right here.



If you are using a stick-on thermometer then you absolutely do need to spend $10 on a Digital Probe Thermometer, as stick-on thermometers are usually very inaccurate and off by between 10-20 degrees when tested, plus, more importantly, you cannot at all measure his Basking Spot Temperature with a stick-on thermometer. The Basking Spot Temperature is a "surface" temperature, and stick-on thermometers only measure Ambient (air) temperatures. So either way you need to get a $10 Digital Probe Thermometer if you don't already have one, but even if you don't have one and are using only a stick-on thermometer, there is no way that you could have 200 watts of heat in a 40 gallon tank and be at those temperatures...so either you're cooking him with a 100 watt bright white Basking Bulb AND a 100 watt Mercury Vapor Bulb and the extremely hot temperatures are the issue, or he has no UVB light at all and that other 100 watt bulb isn't actually 100 watts...

Can you look right on the "UVB" bulb and tell us what it says? What brand name is it, and what model/wattage? And is it a compact bulb (regular lightbulb shape) or a coil/spiral bulb? Either way it's an inadequate UVb bulb, unless it is a Mercury Vapor Bulb, but if it is then you've got a serious temperature issue going on...He already has MBD, so it's natural for his appetite to go away and for him to become very lethargic if you are not using a long, UVB tube that is at least a 10% tube, preferably you want a T5 strength UVB tube for a Bearded Dragon (you can buy a 22" Reptisun 10.0 T5HO UVB tube on Amazon.com for $23 and get a package deal for a matching 24" T5-rated tube Fixture with a Metal Reflector included for under $50 shipped). This is much more appropriate for a Bearded Dragon than the much weaker T8 UVB tubes (which for some reason are also more expensive than the stronger T5 tubes, especially if you are looking at them in Petco or PetSmart, or really any pet shop, as a shorter and much weaker 18" Reptisun 10.0 T8 UVB tube alone, with no fixture, costs $37 at Petco or PetSmart!)

Please post some photos of your dragon, and then his complete setup with his lights included, but most importantly we need to clear up what this "UVB" bulb is, as either way this is the cause of his issues. My best guess is that it's not a UVB bulb at all, and his calcium deficiency is worsening and following the natural downward spiral that it does when a desert reptile like a Bearded Dragon, who's survival literally depends on adequate and very strong UVB light for at least 13-14 hours a day, doesn't get this required UVB light...

Hey sorry i miscommunicated. The compact bulb is a 75 watt and i cannot remember what brand it is but it was one that a worker at petsmart said i should get. I also have been taking him outside when it is sunny.I will order the fixture off amazon and hopefully get that in before the weekend is up.
I also measure his temps with a heat gun.

I am a college student and have a final tomorrow so i will be studying for most of today but i will try my best to take pictures today!

Thank!

 

[EllenD]

If it's a 75 watt then it's definitely NOT a UVB light at all. He has no UVB light, that's the problem.
There is no UVB light that comes in a 75 watt version, not even a Mercury Vapor Bulb. That's what I was trying to convey to you.

Even the very strong, long, T5 UVB tubes are only 26 watts. And the strongest compact UVB bulb that is made is the Exo Terra 200, which is also 26 watts. And to the best of my knowledge they do not make a 75 watt Mercury Vapor Bulb, and if they do and it is a 75 watt Mercury Vapor Bulb, then you've got a 100 watt basking bulb AND a 75 watt Mercury Vapor Bulb in only a 40 gallon tank, which would cook him...

It sounds to me like you have 2 separate Basking Bulbs, perhaps the 75 watt one is the "All Living Things" Neodymium bulb, which you would have bought at PetSmart, as "All Living Things" is their house-brand (and horrible, Chinese-made lights), but this is still not a UVB bulb but only a UVA bulb. So he's been getting no UVB light, this is what's wrong...he needs a proper UVB tube ASAP, as he's not been getting any...

 

[Gtauferner]

If it's a 75 watt then it's definitely NOT a UVB light at all. He has no UVB light, that's the problem.
There is no UVB light that comes in a 75 watt version, not even a Mercury Vapor Bulb. That's what I was trying to convey to you.

Even the very strong, long, T5 UVB tubes are only 26 watts. And the strongest compact UVB bulb that is made is the Exo Terra 200, which is also 26 watts. And to the best of my knowledge they do not make a 75 watt Mercury Vapor Bulb, and if they do and it is a 75 watt Mercury Vapor Bulb, then you've got a 100 watt basking bulb AND a 75 watt Mercury Vapor Bulb in only a 40 gallon tank, which would cook him...

It sounds to me like you have 2 separate Basking Bulbs, perhaps the 75 watt one is the "All Living Things" Neodymium bulb, which you would have bought at PetSmart, as "All Living Things" is their house-brand (and horrible, Chinese-made lights), but this is still not a UVB bulb but only a UVA bulb. So he's been getting no UVB light, this is what's wrong...he needs a proper UVB tube ASAP, as he's not been getting any...

Okay thank you so much! I had no idea how dishonest the packaging was for those lights. It said UVB on it but I ordered the T5 light bar and it should be in by the 11th.
I will continue to give him the vitamins that my vet gave me since they have Vitamin D in them.
It is also currently 40 degrees F outside so i do not believe i will be able to take him outside for UVB unless yall have any ideas of keeping him warm outside when that cold!

Thank yall all so much!!! i have now learned my lesson that i need to do more research into his UVB lighting. I really appreciate it

 

[EllenD]

No, there's really no way to get him UVB light unless you have a UVb light or you have him under direct sunlight (UVB light cannot penetrate glass or clear plastic, so the inside of a window won't help either)...I'm glad you ordered a T5 UVB tube, which one did you order? The T5 is worth the money, it only needs replaced once every 10 months to a year, and it only has to be within 11" of the basking spot, as opposed to the weaker T8 tubes, which must be within 6" and be replaced once every 6 months. I'd still mount the T5 tube underneath the mesh lid (if your tank isn't a wooden enclosure), you can use long, plastic zip ties, twine, wire, shoelaces, etc. and then just poke 4 holes in the mesh, and strap the entire fixture to the underside of the mesh, over the Hot Side of his tank, and right alongside the bright white basking bulb. Then move his basking spot/platform directly under both lights so that he gets both at the same time while basking (replicates natural sunlight), and make sure it's within at least 11" to the unobstructed T5 UVB tube (it can be closer than 11", just no further away). Since he's had no UVb light at all he needs very strong, direct UVB light for at least 13-14 hours every day, so make sure you leave both his lights on for that length of time every day.

Did you also order a matching length, T5-rated tube fixture for the UVb tube? Silly question but some people don't realize that they don't come with a fixture. And make sure whatever fixture you ordered came/comes with a metal reflector, that's a must, especially for his situation. If you don't have a metal reflector behind the UVB tube inside the fixture, the UVB light will not be reflected throughout the 40 gallon tank...if the fixture you ordered doesn't have one, you'll need to order a slip-on one...

 

[Gtauferner]

No, there's really no way to get him UVB light unless you have a UVb light or you have him under direct sunlight (UVB light cannot penetrate glass or clear plastic, so the inside of a window won't help either)...I'm glad you ordered a T5 UVB tube, which one did you order? The T5 is worth the money, it only needs replaced once every 10 months to a year, and it only has to be within 11" of the basking spot, as opposed to the weaker T8 tubes, which must be within 6" and be replaced once every 6 months. I'd still mount the T5 tube underneath the mesh lid (if your tank isn't a wooden enclosure), you can use long, plastic zip ties, twine, wire, shoelaces, etc. and then just poke 4 holes in the mesh, and strap the entire fixture to the underside of the mesh, over the Hot Side of his tank, and right alongside the bright white basking bulb. Then move his basking spot/platform directly under both lights so that he gets both at the same time while basking (replicates natural sunlight), and make sure it's within at least 11" to the unobstructed T5 UVB tube (it can be closer than 11", just no further away). Since he's had no UVb light at all he needs very strong, direct UVB light for at least 13-14 hours every day, so make sure you leave both his lights on for that length of time every day.

Did you also order a matching length, T5-rated tube fixture for the UVb tube? Silly question but some people don't realize that they don't come with a fixture. And make sure whatever fixture you ordered came/comes with a metal reflector, that's a must, especially for his situation. If you don't have a metal reflector behind the UVB tube inside the fixture, the UVB light will not be reflected throughout the 40 gallon tank...if the fixture you ordered doesn't have one, you'll need to order a slip-on one...

I did get the fixture that had the metal reflecting to it! the casing is 22" and the bulb is 24w 22"
I am assuming those fit haha but if you do not think they will then id be happy to order a different casing!
Thank you and i will be sure to keep the UVB on him for that time!

 

[Drache613]

Hello,

That's great you got a new light fixture ordered. You have a T5 on order, he will love it!
It should help out greatly. The basking light was probably saying it was a UVA source. I
don't know of any Mercury vapor bulbs that are 75 watts off hand.
How is he doing today?
I hope he is feeling better soon & keep us posted on everything.

Tracie

 

[EllenD]

You got the right fixture, the 22" Reptisun 10.0 T5HO fits into a 24" fixture. That's one of the best UVB lights you can buy, so he'll be in good shape after a week or so under it, he should perk right up...

It's not the first time that someone has purchased that 75 watt Neo bulb from All Living Things, thinking it was a UVB light (I'm pretty sure the employees think it's a UVB light, or they're actually told that it is, lol). It's simply a UVA Basking Bulb.