Bearded dragon body condition scoring

[Mctoste]

Hi I'm new to the forum and was hoping someone would help me out. I'm working on a body condition scoring guide for bearded dragons but have hit a bit of a road block as to what constitutes as fat vs obese since there isn't a whole lot of information on how to tell the difference. I have a bit of information down but I'm not sure how accurate it is and would appreciate some feedback. Also how can I upload a PDF of what I have so far? I added the url that its located at below but I'd rather upload the PDF version since its posted in my Facebook group. https://lookaside.fbsbx.com/file/Body%20Condition%20Scoring%20in%20Adult%20and%20Sub%20Adult%20Bearded%20Dragons%20pdf.pdf?token=AWyHK-lS7PnauW3MxhT-EHWUlWL8Z4gwma1bA7DQMORi_apkZ13gRjZ22yt0TIZDS4CrUDjngtV10Ker_qbNEzQ64jVewrMMgEWCA83TjN1Ly35Twh9QNiOHHxZk9DHa92bfC3FpqcsuQjQysKLt4zuZ

 

[CooperDragon]

It may be difficult to come up with a set scoring guide because they are all quite a bit different. There are some threads on here charting the growth of people's dragons that may help you get a general range of weight vs age & length but there are other factors to consider as well such as muscle mass in the arms and legs, fat pad content on the top of the head and at the base of the tail, and environmental factors. My concern is that if someone's dragon doesn't meet a high score on a chart, it would cause them to worry, possibly unnecessarily - especially if their dragon is still growing. Similar to matching humans up to a set BMI chart.

I'm not able to see the file you posted. A .pdf would need to be uploaded to a site like dropbox and linked. If you can export it to jpg, gif, or png format you can upload the image directly to the site here https://www.beardeddragon.org/useruploads/ and post the image to your thread using the XIMG button.

 

[Taterbug]

I can't see it either, but I'm interested to since this is something that I've considered making as well. It would certainly be a good tool, in the same way that a body condition chart is useful for dogs and cats. Without getting to see your chart I would describe fat vs obese similar to other condition charts do.

A 3 (ideal) Visible fat stores in the head and tail, palpable fat stores in the abdomen. May have some fat stores in the underarm developing. The spine is defined but not prominent. The contours of the bones in the hips are defined but not prominent. The lizard in cross section is roughly wedge shaped with a flatish belly. The tail is rounded with a thicker portion near the base. The lizard can flatten out.

A 4 (over-weight/fat) A fat lizard will still probably be storing most of its fat in typical areas, the abdomen is getting round and fat is starting to get stored in the neck and chest more. The spine is less defined. The belly sags or is rounded (not related to eating). Lizard cannot really flatten out so well.

A 5 (obese) would be rounded to the point that they loose most definition skeletal definition, especially in the back and tail. These lizards look swollen to me. In cross-section the lizard would be more oval shaped than wedge shaped. Spine may appear sunken relative to the sides. Fat rolls around the neck and hips.


Cooper, I'm not sure if you are familiar with condition charts but its not so much a matter of scoring high, but being 'fit'. I agree that its probably best suited for grown dragons, there are lots of captives that could be healthier if their owners recognize signs of being too thin/too fat. Recognizing body condition in non-human animals can be a challenge without some cues.

 

[CooperDragon]

I wasn't familiar with them but looked into it. I think as long as it takes enough major factors into account and is used as a guide rather than a set regulation like some doctors use BMI, it will probably be a helpful tool.

 

[Mctoste]

Here are some of the areas I was thinking would be useful to have as criteria:

Tail Shape
Fat Pads
Visibility of Hip Bones, Back and Tail Vertebrae
Looseness/ Tightness of Skin
Muscle Tone
Overall Appearance

I've found however that while these are pretty easy to use to define thin and emaciated dragons, once you get up to fat versus obese it gets more difficult, especially since everyone has different opinions on where that line should be drawn.The image I've attached is something I drew to be a representation of an emaciated dragon, but when drawing a fat dragon I can't seem to find a common standard to adhere to even enough that I can give a pictorial representation like this for it.

And heres a section of the part I've written on the score of one which is emaciated.

versus what I have for the same area for an overweight dragon

 

[Taterbug]

That might be a 5 dragon to me, not a 4. The fat in the face/neck area as well as how round the belly is more than just a bit overweight IMO. Dragons are generally rather lean lizards.

Working with a vet or someone with a good understanding of reptile medince/physiology might help take some of the opinion. Some amount of fat is in particular areas is good, starting to store visceral fat and such is my good.

 

[AHBD]

Interesting stuff....I just wanted to add that the size fat pads on the head vary greatly, with some dragons having flatter heads. Some dragons almost look as if they have a puffy , muscular area of fat pad where others that are perfectly healthy have a smooth area that doesn't appear puffy at all. Until these areas actually become slightly [ or greatly ] indented, it can't be used very accurately across the board to determine health.

And other than very obviously skinny or ill dragons, I think dragons that are leaner are healthier, almost always more active, flexible and retain the ability to move quickly compared to very chunky and fat dragons. Heavier dragons seem to become what you might term as a couch potato....not wanting to move much but usually having a big appetite , usually for bugs. Not that a chunky dragon can't live a long + healthy life but they might be at higher risk of developing problems associated with inactivity and carrying too much weight and fat , including around the organs.

 

[Skipper7]

This is quite the interesting thread. I'm interested in following. I see a lot of lizards on instagram and have formed my own "opinion" of what is healthy. I agree that a leaner dragon is a healthier dragon.

If you're interested, and If I get permission from owners, I can post a bunch of pictures here.

 

[Mctoste]

I'd be very interested in seeing some more pictures, especially of the overweight and obese dragons. For some reason I've been having trouble finding good representations. Also I managed to screenshot all of what I have so far (its quite long unfortunately) and would love some feedback on what looks good and what can be improved. The four and five scores especially need a lot more work but I have a feeling that the other sections can also be improved. As for finding out more from a reptile specialist, I plan on talking to the people in the herpetology lab on my campus.