Barely breathing, not eating always sleeping baby beardie

[Nelly234]

I just got a baby bearded dragon 3 days ago at petco (it was random, I was sad and he was so cute, I know that's not the best reason to get one) but anyways, I named him K9 and he is so cute. him, am so paranoid, I want to make sure everything is good for him and he lives a healthy life. I have a few problems to discuss here, sorry in advance. I have the whole wrong setup for him so can someone please tell me what's a good set up like temp wise and post pictures of the lights I should get so I can match it in the store because I have no idea, also can anyone tell me where I can get a 55gallon tank for a decent price.

To start off, K9 only eats worms (mealworms) I heard this is bad for them so I ordered reptiworms. In the Petsore they were only offering him mealworms so when I got home I offered him crickets and he just allowed them to crawl all over his head and I was so sad for him.. When I say he eats worms I mean he snacks on them... These past 3 days he has only eaten about 5 worms (only their body, he leaves the head). Each day he had a few drops of water, I'm buying a spray bottle today and giving him a bath tonight. He won't eat fruit or greens.

Last night around 4am I woke up in a panic I don't know why, but I ran to my lil K9 to make sure everything was okay and it seemed like he wasn't breathing. I watched him for a while and nothing, I honestly started crying. I think I was extra sad and nervous because of all the YouTube videos I watched where their bearded dragons from petco keep dying, so I just assumed mine did as well. I go and get my grandma and we were both watching him, he wasn't breathing and wasnt moving so I announced him dead. I didn't want to touch him I was sad and scared so she picks up the rock he's on and puts him in a box and he scurries under the rock!! I was like omg!!! The dragon has awoken!!!! Then when I got up today at 645 for work he wasn't breathing again!! I start tapping the glass and nothing!! But I was like I'm going to give him some time so when I came out the shower I checked on him and he was in the same place, eyes shut. But then, I changed his light and his eyes opened and he seemed to move alil im not too sure though, and I see him breathing. So is this normal?

Lastly, my beardie is ALWAYS sleeping. This lil boy is not active at all... When I pick him up he wakes up then falls right back to sleep in my hand. In his cage if his eyes are open and I pet him he falls asleep its cute. He also loves being handled? Or maybe that's just the way I'm interpreting it? When I put my finger in front of him he latches on right away and when I try putting him back he turns around and tried running up my hand again.. He also likes staying on my shirt. Is this okay?

Thank you to anyone who took the time to read this, it is well apprieciated!

 

[PodunkKhaleesi]

Okay, first thing’s first:
1. Temperatures. What are your current basking temperatures and cool side temperatures and how are you taking these? For a baby you want a basking surface temperature between 100-110 degrees. And the only way of ensuring that your basking surface temperature is safe and in this necessary range is to take it with a temp gun. Those plastic stick on thermometers on the wall of your cage can be very inaccurate and don’t tell you what the vital basking surface temperature is. I usually recommend the Zoo Med temp gun because it’s easy to find. Here’s the link on Amazon but it’s also available in many chain pet stores: https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B0053Y6IPE/ref=mp_s_a_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1520258793&sr=8-1&keywords=zoo+med+temp+gun&dpPl=1&dpID=51O8Jxs%2BRXL&ref=plSrch
2. What brand/strength UV light are you using? A quality UV light is the most important purchase you’ll make, and the two that are most recommended by vets and breeders are the Reptisun T5 10.0 and the Arcadia D3 12 or 13% UV tubes. Many of the compact and coil “all-in-one” UV lights pet stores sell emit virtually no UV, and some can even cause eye issues long term. I once assisted in a research study measuring UV output of many common pet store coil/compact bulbs and the findings were very disturbing. But the two just listed are proven to emit the exact UV levels they claim at the strength vital for beardies to stay healthy (the only reason I don’t recommend MVBs is simply because I don’t have experience with these lights, but other members that do can hopefully advise on these). Drsfosterandsmith.com usually has great deals and free shipping on the Reptisun T5 HO 10.0 tubes and Amazon also carries them for much less than what most pet stores charge. So if your UV light isn’t up to par, fixing that will have the greatest influence on your beardie’s health.
3. You’re right about mealworms. They’re the toughest insect on a young beardie’s digestive system and nutritionally they offer very little. It’s best to avoid them altogether. Make sure any insect you feed a beardie is not larger than the space between his eyes, as this is the width of the beardie’s throat. Good feeders at this stage include Phoenix worms (also called calciworms or BSFL), crickets, dubia roaches, and small silkworms. Ordering insects online is the easiest way to ensure that there’s variety (and pet stores charge an insane amount for crickets). Baby beardies eat a dizzying amount of bugs (feed at least twice a day, as many as he wants in a 10-minute period). I love calciworms/BSFL and so does almost every beardie I’ve encountered. Symton BSFL is a great place to buy these online. Even the largest size BSFL still tends to be small enough for young beardies. Make sure you’re also offering a variety of greens and staple veggies. The Beautiful Dragons website has an excellent guide on which insects and greens are best as treats and which are daily staples.
Finally, if you could post pictures of your current setup that would really help us fine tune anything that needs to be tweaked or removed completely. But making sure you’ve got the right temps, UV light, and a supply of nutritious insects is vital to your baby’s health, so these need to be addressed ASAP. If the temperature and UV light aren’t correct, this could very well be the reason for his lethargy. But these are very easy fixes, so don’t panic and let’s just focus on fixing each of these issues until everything’s perfect and he can be a happy energetic beardie.

 

[Nelly234]

Right now he's in a really small tank, 10 gallon. This is the one they gave me at petco and said it'll last 2 years, I know now that this is absolutely not acceptable and I will be changing it by next week. His temperature says 80 degrees and at petco this is what they told me to keep him at, thats the same temperature they keep all their animals at.

 

[destiny1998]

Hi. Like the above poster I agree with the advise. Follow it! Do not follow the advice by pet stores. They are not trained at all to take proper care of the animals they take care of. Your lights are wrong, temps those are very important to the health of the baby dragon that's why he's lethargic.

 

[kyleena29]

You cannot get a proper temp gradient in a 10 gallon tank. If you have to just get a large rubbermaid or sterlite bin and use it temporarily. He is probably dealing with too low of temperature and not able to digest his food so he isn't going to eat and if he does the food will just rot in his tummy and make him feel sick and again will not eat. He is either going to get too hot and have no cool place to go and dehydrate or not hot enough to even be active.

We need to be sure what set up you have. Since he's in a 10 gallon you probably don't have the right lamps for him. They can look dead while they are sleeping yes. The first day I got a beardie I had no clue about them. The next morning I look at her and thought she died. You need to look over the care sheets on this site as I feel you are in the same boat as me when I first got one. Misinformation and not enough proper education on how to take care of these sweet little creatures.

 

[EllenD]

Wow, you've got some serious issues here, not your fault, Petco obviously has not a clue what they're talking about, at least whomever you talked to doesn't. He is most likely suffering from a bit of Relocation Stress, that's normal and can last a week or so, but if his tank is only at 80 degrees and he doesn't have an adequate UVB tube over him along with a bright-white colored Basking Bulb, both lights being on for at least 13-14 hours a day, then he will have no appetite and it's better he doesn't eat, because he won't be able to digest the food anyway.

So I'm going to be direct here and just tell you what you need to buy/order and what you need to do, because this case sounds very bad...First of all, he won't eat many fresh greens/veggies until he's around a year old, they do most of their growing during their first year of life, and as such they eat tons and tons and tons of LIVE insects every single day, and may or may not nibble at the fresh salad of greens/veggies that you should offer to him anyway, but don't be alarmed if he doesn't eat them, that's totally normal. Not eating his LIVE bugs is a problem and an indication that your lighting and temps are wrong...Also, mealworms are awful for them, he'll become impacted and they are very high in fat and cause Fatty Liver Disease. The "ReptWorms" are excellent live Staple feeders, even though he's a baby he can eat the size mediums or larges because they are entirely soft-bodies, so don't bother buying smalls. Figure he will soon be eating between 30-60 medium to large ReptiWorms every day...I order mine on www.dubiaroaches.com that's the cheapest place I've found, they are called BSFL or Black Soldier Fly Larva on there, same thing, and I order 1,000 larges a month for only $25 shipped...I'd order at least 200 to start with and go from there.

Also, Dragons don't really drink much standing water, they have no concept of it as there isn't any in the Australian Desert where they are from, so they get most all of their hydration from the LIVE insects that they eat and from the FRESH greens/veggies they eat. GIVING HIM A BATH WILL NOT HYDRATE HIM UNLESS HE ACTIVELY DRINKS THE WATER THROUGH HIS MOUTH!!!!! Internet myth, they do not "absorb" water or hydration through their vents or skin by taking a bath or soaking in water, and most don't like baths, they just stress them out. So unless you see him actively drinking water through his mouth in the bath, then he only needs a bath once a week, or when he gets dirty, that's it, no need to stress him out any more. YOU CAN GIVE HIM HYDRATION, SINCE HE'S NOT EATING MANY LIVE BUGS, BY DRIPPING WATER ON HIS SNOUT WITH AN EYEDROPPER OR ORAL SYRINGE FOR HIM TO LICK OFF, GIVE HIM AS MUCH AS HE'LL LICK OFF, AND DO THIS 2-3 TIMES THROUGHOUT EACH DAY. THAT WILL KEEP HIM HYDRATED.

Okay, so UVB lights...YOU NEED A LONG (at least 18" long) UVB Tube and a matching length tube fixture that has a metal reflector inside it, behind the tube. The regular Compact and Coil UVB bulbs do not emit nearly enough UVb light for a Dragon, and the mesh lid to the tank is blocking about 40% of the already too weak UVB light...So if you have a compact or Coil UVB bulb, remove the mesh lid and let it shine directly on him, and try to get it within about 6" of his Basking Spot. This will have to do until you order a proper UVB tube.

There are 2 strengths of UVB tubes: The much weaker T8 and the much stronger T5. The differences are thus: The T8 tubes cannot sit on top of the mesh, you must strap them to the underside of the mesh lid using zip ties, wire, twine, etc., while the T5 tubes are strong enough to sit on the mesh lid. The T8 tubes must be within at least 6" of your Dragons basking spot/platform, while the T5 tubes must only be within 10-11" of his basking spot/platform. And the T8 tubes must be replaced ONCE EVERY 6 MONTHS ON THE DOT, AS THEY STOP EMITTING ANY UVB LIGHT AT 6 MONTHS OLD...The T5 tubes only need replaced once a year (12 months), they have a slower UVB light decay-rate...So you're best to buy a T5 UVB tube/fixture, it's best for him and it will save you money.

AVOID THE BRANDS ZILLA, ALL LIVING THINGS, REPTILEONE, TRIXIE, AND ANY OTHER OFF-BRANDS. They emit harmful light rays that cause eye damage, neurological damage, and blindness, and they are often much weaker in UVB output than they say. THE 2 BRANDS YOU NEED TO BUY ARE EITHER R

REPTISUN 10.0 (not 5.0, not strong enough UVB output for a Dragon) OR

ARCADIA (they make a 12% or 12.0 T5 UVB tube)

The cheapest way to go is ordering both the T5 UVB tube and the fixture on Amazon.com by far...You can buy a 22" (necessary if you're buying a 55 gallon tank) Reptisun 10.0 T5HO UVB tube on Amazon.com for about $27 shipped, and they also sell one 24" fixture that is rated for a T5 UVB tube (24 watts) that comes with a reflector (crucial for a large tank) for about $28...So for about $60 shipped on Amazon you can buy one of the best available UVB tubes and a fixture for it that comes with a Reflector...THIS IS NOT OPTIONAL, IT'S THE MOST IMPORTANT PIECE OF EQUIPMENT YOU WILL BUY FOR YOUR DRAGON! Without a strong, adequate UVB tube he will become extremely sick, develop physical disabilities, and eventually die.

You already know he needs at least a 40 Gallon Breeder Tank as a minimum size, I have no idea why a Petco employee would say a 10 Gallon tank would last for 2 years, as they are pretty much fully grown at about a year, and longer than a 10 gallon tank at under a year old. What a *****. Uhg.

You must also buy at least one Digital Probe Thermometer or a Temperature Gun, because you cannot at all measure his Basking Spot Surface Temperature with a Stick-On Thermometer...For now, in the 10-Gallon tank, there's absolutely NO WAY to get a proper temperature gradient, However, assuming that you have a bright-white colored Basking Bulb (YOU CANNOT USE ANY COLORED BULBS FOR A DRAGON), you can try to achieve a Basking Spot Surface Temperature of 105-110 degrees F, that's where it needs to be for a Dragon under a year old. Then the rest of the tank needs to have an Ambient/Air Temperature around 80 degrees. But you have to get a $10 Digital Probe Thermometer first. Eventually, here's the temperature zones you're aiming for in your larger tank:

BASKING SPOT SURFACE TEMPERATURE (no Stick-On Thermometer can measure this): Between 105-110 degrees F for a Dragon under a year old; Between 100-105 degrees F for a Dragon over a year old; ANY SURFACE TEMPERATURE OVER 110 DEGREES CAN BE LETHAL...

HOT SIDE AIR/AMBIENT TEMPERATURE (air temperature of the Hot Side of the tank, surrounding his Basking Spot/Platform): Between 88-93 degrees F.

COOL SIDE AIR/AMBIENT TEMPERATURE (air temperature of the opposite Cool Side of the tank): Between 75-80 degrees F MAX.

*****For now, in the 10 gallon tank, he needs a Basking Spot Surface Temp between 105-110 degrees F in order to digest his food and absorb any nutrition, though he likely won't absorb much of anything until you get a proper UVB tube.

Also, you need to dust his insects in a Calcium Powder 5 times a week, and in a Multivitamin Powder 3 times a week...

 

[Nelly234]

I bought a tank yesterday

I wanted everything immediately so I went to the petstore and bought the lights but they didn't have the T5 I have T8 (or vice versa) only 15w and I think its zoo med brand - I'm going to order the correct ones on Amazon but I thought this would be a better setup temporarily. The basking light is 75w but only bringing the temp to 90 the most, so should I get 100w? Also, I put a box so he doesn't have complete access to the whole tank.

 

[Drache613]

Hello,

I hope he is doing better!
If the temps aren't getting past 90 then you definitely need the 100 watt to get the temperatures
up to the optimal range of 95-110F for him.
Too bad they didn't have any lights, but most pet stores just don't carry the correct lights.
Amazon should have them in stock & usually ships out pretty quickly also.
Have you gotten him to eat today?

Let us know how he is doing.
Tracie

 

[PodunkKhaleesi]

That’s great that you were able to get him a bigger tank and that you ordered the lights. When you say the temps aren’t getting past 90, are you referring to the basking surface temperature, and are you measuring this with a temp gun? If not, you need a temp gun pronto or you’re not getting accurate numbers. If the surface temp is 90 degrees, two things can help bump this up: 1. A stronger wattage basking bulb 2. Basking platforms and branches to help him get closer to the heat. Beardies love to climb and perch, and having branches or other structures staggered near the heat will let the beardie choose what temperature he prefers (within the 95-110 degree range babies need). You’ll just need to make sure the branches and other decor are placed at the appropriate distance from the UV light (they’ll include a reference on the package). You’re doing a great job correcting all of the pet store’s mistakes, and once you’ve got the proper UV light in place and are able to fine tune the temperature you should see a more active beardie with a much better appetite. Were you able to get some BSFL/Calciworms, by chance? These can often entice youngsters that have snubbed crickets to start eating again. The wiggly nature of worms has more appeal to some dragons.

 

[Nelly234]

He ate 5 mealworms.. I know he shouldn't eat those but that's the only thing I have right now and don't want him to starve. I'm waiting for the silkworms and phoenix worms to come in the mail. I can actually already see a difference, this has been the most active I've seen him. He climbs on all of his things and is so alert. Last night I didn't put the red lamp at night on, people said he can sleep with no light, is that fine? I'm not sure the exact temperature of my room at night but if it drops a little below 65 would that be harmful? I don't want to get the CHE thing right now because I don't want him to over heat with the heater and light.

 

[PodunkKhaleesi]

The red “night lights” are a gimmick concocted by pet stores. No bearded dragon in nature sleeps with a neon red light bouncing off his face. They crave darkness, just like other animals, and these infrared bulbs pet stores market as “comforting” can actually be very irritating to beardies and disrupt their circadian rhythm. So that’s great that you ditched the unnecessary red light (he’ll thank you—promise. ). Most households don’t have temperature drops at night that are low enough to require a CHE. If your room does reach 64 degrees or below, that’s when these are usually recommended, but chances are good that your night time temps are fine for him (double check to be sure though). If you do require a CHE, that should be the only thing you turn on at night regarding his cage (no basking bulb or UV light, for the circadian rhythm reason mentioned above). The goal of a CHE is to nudge the temp up just a bit (not to provide the same temps the cage maintains during the day). It’s great that you ordered two of the best feeders money can buy, so hopefully this past week will be his one and only dalliance with Mealworms.It’s great that he’s already perking up, and you’ll notice his energy and alertness get better and better once you’ve got the new UV light installed. I know how panic-inducing it is to realize the pet store not only has no idea what the animals they sell need to be healthy, but are also willing to sell unknowing beardie newbies a plethora of products that range from unnecessary to dangerous. Many of the more urgent threads on forums like these involve beardies that are in dire situations because of a Petco’s advice to use walnut shells as substrate (impaction) or to simply rely on a plastic stick on thermometer on the wall of the cage and assume the basking surface temperature is the same temp as the wall (unmonitored basking temperatures that are too cold for basic metabolic function or fatally hot). But when you realized something was wrong you sought help and sprang into action immediately, and soon every component you need to raise a healthy happy beardie will be in play. Quick follow up: Were you able to get or at least order a temp gun so you know your basking temperatures (and not just the general cage/ambient air temps)?

 

[Nelly234]

I watched so many horrifying videos on youtube about what happened to some bearded dragons after brought home from petco that I was so nervous. My brother thinks I'm weird and obsessed but I love him so much and want everything to go perfect. This website was a life saver (Literally) . the petco I went to obviously have absolutely no idea what they are doing and its a shame because the animals suffer. I'm ordered the reptisun UVB light as well as the temperature guns today on Amazon (I had to wait for my check from my job) everything has ran me so far more than 300$ with all the extra stuff petco made me bought, its ridiculous. Then they tell me I can't return it because I don't have the receipt but I paid with credit card so they can easily bring it up (pretty sure even if I paid cash they can aswell.) I have him on just paper towel right now however I do plan on going to home depot today to get tile for his cage. So far, everyday he's used the bathroom and one day he used it twice.

 

[karlys]

My Petsmart baby (well, he's like 9 mos old now but he'll always be my little baby xD) was sick when I brought him home but I didn't really know better. I thought he was just super docile and chill but, luckily, I was feeding him correctly and had almost the right lights. (I had the wrong UVB but correct temps). Even with that, it didn't take long for him to perk up and totally change. I would later find out that he had a horrible coccidia infection when he bloated up round like a balloon and he had to have some meds but that episode led me to this website and these lovely people who educated me on correct UVB. Now he's a very happy and healthy little man! I just thought I'd share my happy story to get your mind away from the sad YouTube videos. They're pretty resilient little creatures and, with proper care (which you seem to be doing now), they really can bounce back!

If it were me, I'd try to escalate the returns situation with Petco. If you've tried the manager already, contact corporate. At least, they should give you store credit. It's ridiculous.

 

[EllenD]

Do you use a Petco "Pals Card", where you give them your phone number every time you buy something? If so, then all you have to do is either log in to your Pals Account online and click on "transactions" and you can print your receipt, or if you go to any store they can look up your account by your phone number, and they can see every single individual transaction you've made, regardless of how you paid for it. I've returned several things to Petco this way, just logged right into my account, clicked on the transaction, printed the receipt, and took it to them. And I actually made a complaint, I had purchased 2 containers of large Superworms for $5.99 a piece because my regular online vendor wasn't shipping due to the weather...Well when I got home there was not one Superworm in either container that was larger than a size small at best, most were "micros', and I could have purchased 2 containers of 75 medium size for $1 less per container and they would have been larger than what I got...Of course I tossed my receipt the minute I walked out of the store because I never thought I'd want to return Superworms. So I called the store directly, asked for the manager, and she herself looked up my Pals account and printed the individual receipt for me, and just gave me cash back, including the tax, I didn't even have to bring back the tiny little worms.

 

[Nelly234]

Aww I'm so happy your baby was able to recover! Maybe my bearded dragon is sick and needs to go to a vet? He's very nice and friendly and loves when I hold him. Just before I couldn't get him off my shoulder he just wanted to sleep there. He's very skinny (I think) but the guy at petco said there's always a small one in the bunch and he's probably it and that he'll gain weight and stuff. Are their legs supposed to go straight because when he's laying down three lgs will be positioned regular and then the back left leg will be spread out straight... But its able to bend, so I'm guessing its nothing to worry about? And thank you for telling me how to get a reciept because these people are ridiculous. The cashier and manager are both so rude, the manager told me "I don't know why you're here everyday just stick with the lights I gave you" meanwhile he gave me the red light and other ones with 50w... So he clearly doesn't know what he's talking about. But with that being said, I'm going to print ny reciept and have my ceeidt card with me so there won't be any reason why they won't take it back.