Baby beardie won’t eat!

[amandamaghirang]

I recently got a baby, about 2-3 weeks old. Im concerned because I’ve had him for about one month. This one seems to be much more skittish than my first one who is now 3 years old( I’ve had hardly any problems with my first beardie) Anyway, at first he was eating very well, crickets, waxworms, even some greens. All dusted. I ended up taking him to a herp vet because he had been acting strange. Vet ruled it out to be stress. So I left him alone for several days. And since then has been on a hunger strike. His temps are 100 on the hot side and 80ish on the cool side in a 20 gal tank. I also have a uvb repti sun bulb I believe 18”. He is also still pooping, smaller than when I first got him but still normal looking. I offer food every single day sometimes up to 3 times a day and I can only get him to eat maybe one or two worms. He will try to catch crickets but is not as enthusiastic about eating as I expect a baby to be.

Anyone have any ideas or suggestions?! I’m getting desperate and hoping I won’t have to take him to a vet again.

 

[destiny1998]

Hi. Can you post a picture of his set up?

 

[amandamaghirang]

Edited by Moderator per OP's request due to posting twice.

 

[amandamaghirang]

Hi. Can you post a picture of his set up?

I’ve got two hides, one on each side. 3 sides of the tank are covered. I had originally placed the uvb more on the cooler end, but thought it may be a placement issue as to why he’s not eating. I feel like an ***** since I haven’t dealt with a baby in over 3 years. My first beardie was soooo easy

 

[EllenD]

It's okay, baby beardies are definitely a lot more picky about their UVB/UVA lighting, temps, etc. than adults are, and even small mistakes can make a huge difference. At this point it's no longer relocation stress, as that should definitely be gone after a month. So usually when babies refuse to eat after this long it is due to a problem with UVB lighting and/or temperature zones. You have experience, so that's good, but again, babies are so very sensitive that they do need very specific husbandry.

First of all, did the vet put him on any medications? I'm asking this first because they tend to medicate for no reason at all and if he did, then that is definitely the main issue.

The main issue with your UVB lighting is that you have an 18" Reptisun 10.0 UVB tube that is the much weaker T8 strength (the T5 tubes give you double the UVB output and give you a lot more leeway on how you have to have the tube setup). You have the UVB tube sitting on top of a mesh lid, and no T8 UVB tube can sit on top of a mesh lid and still deliver adequate UVB light to your dragon, as the mesh blocks about 40% or so of the UVB light, and a T8 strength UVB tube is far too weak to still deliver adequate UVB light to your dragon on the other side of the mesh. This will definitely effect his appetite. The photo you posted is actually a perfect representation of this problem, as your dragon is trying to get as close as he can to the UVB light, because he's not getting enough.

So the first thing you need to do is to take either long, plastic zip/cable ties, wire, twine, etc. and put it through the mesh lid in order to strap the entire tube fixture to the underside of the mesh lid. Now you mentioned that you had moved the UVB tube around, well your main goal with setting his lights up is to replicate Natural Sunlight as closely as possible. You do this by placing both the UVB tube and the bright-white Basking Bulb over the Hot Side of the tank, right alongside each other, so that both of the lights are basically "sharing" the top of the Hot Side of the tank/lid. So when you strap the entire tube fixture to the underside of the mesh lid, make sure that you don't center it to the entire tank, it has a reflector behind it, so it doesn't matter if it's going over the Cool Side of the tank at all, you want it over the Hot Side and pretty much "off-center" of the Hot Side of the tank, meaning that the UVB tube is not right up against the back or the front glass of the tank (you end up losing half the UVB light right off the glass). You just want to strap it to the underside of the mesh lid a little off-center over the Hot Side of the tank, and then place the Basking Bulb also off-center over the Hot Side of the tank, so they are both right alongside each other, with one more towards the back and one more towards the front. Then you need to position his basking spot/platform directly underneath both lights, so that he's getting both light at the same time while basking.

Also, with a weaker T8 UVB tube, his basking spot/platform must be within at least 6" of the now unobstructed UVB tube. Now obviously the UVB tube will be a couple of inches closer once it's strapped to the underside of the mesh lid, and that should definitely put the tube within at least 6" of that cave/platform. That should do it.

Make sure that you write the date or the month that you started using that T8 UVB tube right on the tube itself with a Sharpie, as the T8 tubes must be replaced once every 6 months on the dot, as they have a very fast UVB decay-rate, and at 6 months they won't be emitting much, if any UVB light anymore.

*******I think I see a Digital Probe Thermometer running down to the Basking Spot/Platform, so that's good. Once you get the UVB tube strapped to the underside of the mesh lid and you get both lights sharing the top of the Hot Side of the tank, and you get the basking platform placed directly underneath both lights, then wait about an hour, and then place the Probe right directly on his Basking Spot on the Platform, right exactly where he lays to bask. Allow the Probe to sit there for at least 20-30 minutes, then read the temperature. This is the Basking Spot Surface Temperature, and it should be between 105-110 degrees F.

*******That's another possible issue, for such a young baby, you need his Basking Spot Surface Temperature to be higher than what an adult requires. Babies want their Basking Spot Surface Temps between 105-110 degrees F, while adults (over a year to a year and a half old) like it between 100-105. So getting his Basking Spot Surface Temperature between 105-110 degrees F will also help quite a bit. Make sure that 110 degrees F is the hottest Surface Temperature anywhere in the tank. Also, you want the Hot Side Ambient (air) Temp between 88-93 degrees F, and then the Cool Side Ambient (air) Temperature between 75-80 degrees F. Keeping a baby's 3 temperature zones within these strict ranges will create 3 distinct temperatures inside his tank that he can go to and actually feel a considerable difference in temperature.

Also, make sure that you are leaving both the UVB tube and the Basking Bulb on for at least 13-14 hours every single day.

I really think that after a day or two of him getting adequate, strong, direct UVB light (this has been your major issue with his appetite, it's a very common problem with T8 tubes sitting on top of the mesh lid), getting his 2 lights set-up in-coordination with his basking spot/platform, and getting his Basking Spot Surface Temperature up from 100 degrees to between 105-110 degrees, you're going to see huge improvements. I'd make these adjustments immediately and then give it 48 hours and report back with an update...

 

[amandamaghirang]

It's okay, baby beardies are definitely a lot more picky about their UVB/UVA lighting, temps, etc. than adults are, and even small mistakes can make a huge difference. At this point it's no longer relocation stress, as that should definitely be gone after a month. So usually when babies refuse to eat after this long it is due to a problem with UVB lighting and/or temperature zones. You have experience, so that's good, but again, babies are so very sensitive that they do need very specific husbandry.

First of all, did the vet put him on any medications? I'm asking this first because they tend to medicate for no reason at all and if he did, then that is definitely the main issue.

The main issue with your UVB lighting is that you have an 18" Reptisun 10.0 UVB tube that is the much weaker T8 strength (the T5 tubes give you double the UVB output and give you a lot more leeway on how you have to have the tube setup). You have the UVB tube sitting on top of a mesh lid, and no T8 UVB tube can sit on top of a mesh lid and still deliver adequate UVB light to your dragon, as the mesh blocks about 40% or so of the UVB light, and a T8 strength UVB tube is far too weak to still deliver adequate UVB light to your dragon on the other side of the mesh. This will definitely effect his appetite. The photo you posted is actually a perfect representation of this problem, as your dragon is trying to get as close as he can to the UVB light, because he's not getting enough.

So the first thing you need to do is to take either long, plastic zip/cable ties, wire, twine, etc. and put it through the mesh lid in order to strap the entire tube fixture to the underside of the mesh lid. Now you mentioned that you had moved the UVB tube around, well your main goal with setting his lights up is to replicate Natural Sunlight as closely as possible. You do this by placing both the UVB tube and the bright-white Basking Bulb over the Hot Side of the tank, right alongside each other, so that both of the lights are basically "sharing" the top of the Hot Side of the tank/lid. So when you strap the entire tube fixture to the underside of the mesh lid, make sure that you don't center it to the entire tank, it has a reflector behind it, so it doesn't matter if it's going over the Cool Side of the tank at all, you want it over the Hot Side and pretty much "off-center" of the Hot Side of the tank, meaning that the UVB tube is not right up against the back or the front glass of the tank (you end up losing half the UVB light right off the glass). You just want to strap it to the underside of the mesh lid a little off-center over the Hot Side of the tank, and then place the Basking Bulb also off-center over the Hot Side of the tank, so they are both right alongside each other, with one more towards the back and one more towards the front. Then you need to position his basking spot/platform directly underneath both lights, so that he's getting both light at the same time while basking.

Also, with a weaker T8 UVB tube, his basking spot/platform must be within at least 6" of the now unobstructed UVB tube. Now obviously the UVB tube will be a couple of inches closer once it's strapped to the underside of the mesh lid, and that should definitely put the tube within at least 6" of that cave/platform. That should do it.

Make sure that you write the date or the month that you started using that T8 UVB tube right on the tube itself with a Sharpie, as the T8 tubes must be replaced once every 6 months on the dot, as they have a very fast UVB decay-rate, and at 6 months they won't be emitting much, if any UVB light anymore.

*******I think I see a Digital Probe Thermometer running down to the Basking Spot/Platform, so that's good. Once you get the UVB tube strapped to the underside of the mesh lid and you get both lights sharing the top of the Hot Side of the tank, and you get the basking platform placed directly underneath both lights, then wait about an hour, and then place the Probe right directly on his Basking Spot on the Platform, right exactly where he lays to bask. Allow the Probe to sit there for at least 20-30 minutes, then read the temperature. This is the Basking Spot Surface Temperature, and it should be between 105-110 degrees F.

*******That's another possible issue, for such a young baby, you need his Basking Spot Surface Temperature to be higher than what an adult requires. Babies want their Basking Spot Surface Temps between 105-110 degrees F, while adults (over a year to a year and a half old) like it between 100-105. So getting his Basking Spot Surface Temperature between 105-110 degrees F will also help quite a bit. Make sure that 110 degrees F is the hottest Surface Temperature anywhere in the tank. Also, you want the Hot Side Ambient (air) Temp between 88-93 degrees F, and then the Cool Side Ambient (air) Temperature between 75-80 degrees F. Keeping a baby's 3 temperature zones within these strict ranges will create 3 distinct temperatures inside his tank that he can go to and actually feel a considerable difference in temperature.

Also, make sure that you are leaving both the UVB tube and the Basking Bulb on for at least 13-14 hours every single day.

I really think that after a day or two of him getting adequate, strong, direct UVB light (this has been your major issue with his appetite, it's a very common problem with T8 tubes sitting on top of the mesh lid), getting his 2 lights set-up in-coordination with his basking spot/platform, and getting his Basking Spot Surface Temperature up from 100 degrees to between 105-110 degrees, you're going to see huge improvements. I'd make these adjustments immediately and then give it 48 hours and report back with an update...

Thank you!! Yes for some reason, I did not have the same issues with my first beardie. But I was also in a different location and this set up is much different than the first. The vet did not prescribe any meds, and was actually leaning more towards just giving him time to settle rather than medicating. But I will try and adjust his lighting asap and see how he does from there.

The only other thing I was concerned about was him being much more skittish than my first. Still very wary of having hands going into his cage. I have been approaching him slowly and picking him up from underneath as opposed to just grabbing him from above. Once hes in my hands he seems to be OK but its when I'm going to handle him, that's when he gets jumpy. I was thinking just giving him time and spending a little bit of handling a once or twice a day to get him used to people more. The pet store i got him from definitely were not handling him often like they claimed. :?

 

[EllenD]

Well honestly they are all different, but also, when they aren't feeling well and have no energy (and the total lack of UVB light will definitely cause him to feel crappy, that's why he's not eating and has no energy) they don't want to be handled either. I'm willing to bet that the lack of adequate UVB light, due to the tube being blocked by the mesh and being too far away from him, is what the main issue is.

Just get that UVB tube fixture strapped to the underside of the mesh lid immediately, and get his basking spot/platform within 6" of the tube, with the basking bulb right alongside the tube so he gets both at the same time, and then give him a day or two. And also, something I forgot to ask you or tell you to check, make sure that the tube fixture that the UVB tube is inside has no clear, plastic cover on it's bottom that is covering the UVB tube. Some fixture come with a clear, plastic safety cover on their bottom's that the UVB light must shine through, and NO UVB light can penetrate any type of glass or clear plastic at all, it blocks 100% of it. So if your fixture does have a cover you must remove it before you strap the fixture to the underside of the mesh lid.

Always talk to him softly as you approach his tank, tell him what you're doing while your doing it, and let him know you're there before you put your hand in the tank. Then always let him see your hand while your talking to him so he knows it's your hand, and always pick him up from underneath or from the side, never just grab him from above. But I really think once he gets a day or two of UVB light things will change drastically for you, it's extremely important that Dragons get at least 13 hours every day of strong UVB light at the appropriate distance from their basking platform, and that mesh lid has made it so he's gotten almost none. That effects/changes everything.

Keep us posted on how he does after you get his lights corrected.

 

[amandamaghirang]

Well honestly they are all different, but also, when they aren't feeling well and have no energy (and the total lack of UVB light will definitely cause him to feel crappy, that's why he's not eating and has no energy) they don't want to be handled either. I'm willing to bet that the lack of adequate UVB light, due to the tube being blocked by the mesh and being too far away from him, is what the main issue is.

Just get that UVB tube fixture strapped to the underside of the mesh lid immediately, and get his basking spot/platform within 6" of the tube, with the basking bulb right alongside the tube so he gets both at the same time, and then give him a day or two. And also, something I forgot to ask you or tell you to check, make sure that the tube fixture that the UVB tube is inside has no clear, plastic cover on it's bottom that is covering the UVB tube. Some fixture come with a clear, plastic safety cover on their bottom's that the UVB light must shine through, and NO UVB light can penetrate any type of glass or clear plastic at all, it blocks 100% of it. So if your fixture does have a cover you must remove it before you strap the fixture to the underside of the mesh lid.

Always talk to him softly as you approach his tank, tell him what you're doing while your doing it, and let him know you're there before you put your hand in the tank. Then always let him see your hand while your talking to him so he knows it's your hand, and always pick him up from underneath or from the side, never just grab him from above. But I really think once he gets a day or two of UVB light things will change drastically for you, it's extremely important that Dragons get at least 13 hours every day of strong UVB light at the appropriate distance from their basking platform, and that mesh lid has made it so he's gotten almost none. That effects/changes everything.

Keep us posted on how he does after you get his lights corrected.

UPDATE: HES EATING! Thank you all very much for the help. I am no longer worried about whether he is sick or not. Besides the lighting issue, I switched to a front opening cage and left him alone for a few days with the proper lighting. He also must have been sick of worms on top of not getting proper light. I also was able to get him to drink from a spray bottle so everything is looking positive! Wooo!

 

[EllenD]

That's really good to hear. I'm glad he's feeling better, it's amazing how sensitive they are to their lighting and temps. Be sure to replace that T8 UVB tube every 6 months on the dot, as they very quickly stop emitting any UVB light at all. You may want to think about switching to the Reptisun 10.0 T5HO UVB tube (you'd need to buy a new tube fixture with a reflector for it too, as the fixture has to be rated for 24 watts instead of the 15 watts for the T8 UVB tube). Not only can the T5HO tube sit on top of the mesh lid (as long as it's within at least 10-11" of the basking spot/platform), so you get a little more leeway with the distance, but the T5 tube only needs to be replaced once every 12 months, so you end up saving quite a bit of money over the years. You can buy both a 22" Reptisun 10.0 T5HO UVB tube and a 24" T5-rated tube fixture with a reflector for under $60 shipped on Amazon.com.