Baby Beardie shivering. Is this normal?

[Ack]

My baby beardie started shaking today when I picked him up. I haven't seen him do this before. I held him on top of my hand in his tank and he stood still on my hand but his whole body, from head to tail, was shivering. It was only a little bit. More like when a person shivers from the cold rather than a seizure or anything.

Other than that he seems healthy. He's eating well, alert, chasing crickets around the cage, etc. Temperatures, UVB lighting (reptisun 10.0), etc. all seem fine according to the general guidelines I've learned here. Repticarpet substrate. He's going to the bathroom about once per day, in fact just did an hour or so before the shivering incident happened.

I think he may be stressed out because this morning I removed a climbing branch that he really liked because it let him get too close to his UVB lamp. His main basking spot was at the top of this branch and his favorite hiding spot was underneath the bottom. Can being scared cause them to shiver like that? If so then maybe he was just more scared than he usually is when I hold him since his branch is gone.

Any ideas? Is shivering normal or should I be concerned?

 

[zandi202]

Was your hand cold? Or outside his viv cold?

 

[Ack]

I was holding him inside the viv, and only for a less than a minute. I don't think my hand was colder than normal. I did pick him up from his basking spot, so he went from his 105* basking spot to around maybe 95 or so in the middle of his viv... do they shiver when they're cold or have a sudden temperature change?

 

[brittani299]

That doesn't really sound normal. But I am unsure of that. Mine have never done that. Do you use calcium powder? I know mbd can start out like that.

 

[Ack]

I'm using calcium powder with d3 and a reptisun 10.0 bulb. The uvb bulb us shining through a screen and I'm planning to fix that tonight. I've only had him for 2 weeks and I'm not sure how the pet shop cared for him.

 

[brittani299]

The UVB sitting on a screen can be a problem for sure. I would mount the UVB inside the tank for more rays to your beardie.

 

[daner923]

Was it like a quick flinch, or prolonged shivering? Sometimes they flinch a bit if they're scared or something.

 

[Ack]

It was a steady subtle but noticeable shivering for the 60 seconds or so that I held him. Then I put him down because I thought it might be because he was scared. I'm not sure if he kept shivering after that or not.

He still seems OK now. He ate a bunch of crickets for supper and is basking now. I haven't tried to pick him up again but I haven't noticed any shivering. I'm not sure if I'd notice without holding him or not.

 

[DTRM30]

I've been dealing with a fairly severe case of MBD that likely resulted from the care at the pet store before we got our little guy. Despite having proper UVB lighting and supplements, it was not enough to get him back on track. I wish I had known more about it early on - I may have caught it earlier than I did. The first sign of it was trembling and ours went down fast - within a few days once we noticed he was shaking. We had only owned him for 6 weeks when he was diagnosed, and MBD takes about 2-3 months before physical signs start to show from what I've read during my many hours of research online about it.

Being under stress from being handled, from what I've read, can trigger muscle tremors. It did with ours - only ours actually started to have seizures - but only when startled by being picked up, handled or slipping on his log, etc. A lack of calcium in the system causes not only weak and brittle bones, but it also affects the muscles. The lack could be from not getting enough calcium, or a lack of D3 to be able to process the calcium it has available, or even an improper calcium to phosphorous ratio.

I would suggest doing some research on MBD or even taking him to a vet if for no other reason than to rule it out. If left untreated it is usually deadly and the longer it goes before treatment the harder it is.

Not to get you nervous or anything - since it may be nothing..... but just want to put it out there. The previous poster is correct in saying that muscle tremors are an early sign of it. I don't want to see anyone have to go through what we've had to deal with the past few weeks. Our little guy is starting to show improvement, but has permanent disabilities and spinal deformities now from it. He never lost his appetite and is (always was) eating like a proper piggy dragon, but now needs to be hand fed, is on liquid calcium and pain meds, and has trouble with his hips that will likely never get better.

As long as he couldn't burn himself on the UVB - being close isn't necessarily a problem. For a fluorescent tube - anywhere between 6-8" away is generally recommended (even though the package may say up to 18"), which if you measure it, really isn't too far away. As long as it is above their head and there is a bright light to dilate the pupils of its eyes, you shouldn't have a problem.

 

[Ack]

Thanks! I'm really sorry to hear about your beardie and I'll definitely check into MBD.

Regarding being too close to the uvb, he was basking a few inches away from it and always had the eye facing the uvb closed. He'd even keep that eye closed for a few minutes after leaving that spot and being away from the uvb. From reading on the forum I thought being too close was irritating his eyes.

 

[DTRM30]

Ok

I had that problem myself in the beginning - he would hide from the UVB so I had to re-arrange things a bit .... I'm using a PowerSun 100w Mercury Vapor Bulb now in addition to the ReptiSun 10 tube and he seems to like that better. I also needed a way to get some extra UVB down to him since he can no longer climb.

I hope it turns out to be nothing serious !

If you want to read about my little guy, you can find the thread here in the health section. It's gotten rather lengthy and has some photos of his spinal curvature progression. I've learned a lot about MBD the hard way

Definitely keep an eye on him and take note of ANY little thing that could be suspicious. The more background history you have of what started and when the easier it will be to track any problems if they arise. BD are prey animals so they will hide illness as long as possible; and once they can't hide it any longer it's already been going on for quite a while.

 

[Ack]

Thanks, everyone. I haven't seen him shivering anymore but I'm keeping a close eye on him. I've moved his reptisun 10.0 so there's no longer a screen between it and my beardie. His basking spot is now about 10" away from the bulb.

He seems to be a lot more active now. He walks around and explores his cage and he comes to the front and looks at me expectantly when I walk up (expecting crickets, I think ) He'll now chase crickets around his viv whereas before he wouldn't take them unless I hand fed them or chased them near enough that he could snap them up without taking more than a few steps. I'm not sure if it's due to the UVB, him getting more comfortable in his new home, or both, but whatever the reason he seems healthy and happy (and very hungry)! Thanks again for your help!

 

[daner923]

Sounds like both. I would try to get the UVB even closer - we typically suggest 6-8 inches.