Baby beardie lethargic and not eating

[ParkerandMe]

My baby Norbert has eaten one cricket since the day we got him. It has been three weeks and he has become increasingly lethargic. Last week he started shaking, so we took him to the vet. They said it was possible he had adenovirus or maybe parasites. They also said he was suffering from calcium deficiency and lack of nutrients from food. I have been feeding him apple-chicken baby food (They did not carry just chicken), and squash baby food as well. He hardly ever opens his eyes all the way when he is in the cage, and he falls asleep on me constantly when he is out. If I put him on the floor or something he will run around some, but eventually closes his eyes. His temps are all fine and the vet said his set up was good. I will be sending in a fecal soon. I was given a calcium supplement (on the receipt it is called Calcium (Neo Cal Gluc) Syrup 1/2 o*) and this food supplement with essential nutrients (carnivore care (lafeber) (40 dram)*) which I mix with water and give him 25 units on the little syringe I have a day. It says 1/2 mL, but I'm not sure if they mean the entire syringe or just each unit. It's pretty small and I'm horrible at the metric system. He also gets 1 unit of calcium each day. I feed him using a curved tipped syringe, which he absolutely despises. Please help! He hasn't gotten any better (except for the fact that he stopped shaking) and has become more and more lethargic since the vet on Saturday. I love this little guy so much and I really want him to be okay. I try to take him out in the sun every day and get him his baby food, but I am at loss. Does anyone know how to help him? Thanks,
Claire

 

[AHBD]

Hi Claire....I'm sorry that your little Norbert is not well. How was he when you first got him ? Did you get him from a breeder, shipped, an expo or a store ? If from a store, have you seen the tankmates lately, how are they ? It's good that he stopped shaking. Can you post a pic of him, and of his set up + lights ? I hope the best for you both....others will chime in as well to help.

 

[ParkerandMe]

Thanks. I got him from a pet shop, but they only sold reptiles so the animals were a lot healthier than most. When I got him he was fine, but when I brought him home he just went on a hunger strike. I saw his tankmates a week or two ago and they were fine. There was only one left though-- the others had been sold. Here is a picture of his tank.
http://i1381.photobucket.com/albums/ah207/ParkerandMe/cage2_zps335c583a.jpg
I don't know if you can see the lighting, but I have an 18" reptisun 10.0 tube in an aquarium fixture. There is a hole cut in the mesh over the cage so no UVB light is filtered out. My basking bulb is a Zoo Med 50 watt, but my basking spot is only about 4" away from the light, so temps are about 106 *F on the spot (infrared temp gun)
Here is a picture that I took 2.5 months ago when he was at the pet shop. He's the one in the front.
http://i1381.photobucket.com/albums/ah207/ParkerandMe/Norbert_zps7b556753.jpg
Here's him the third day after I took him home, super bright and curious.
http://i1381.photobucket.com/albums/ah207/ParkerandMe/Nor_zps6dcc4d2e.jpg
Here is today.
http://i1381.photobucket.com/albums/ah207/ParkerandMe/Norbert4_zpsa7e5fec5.jpg
http://i1381.photobucket.com/albums/ah207/ParkerandMe/Norbert3_zpsbddd8ac0.jpg
http://i1381.photobucket.com/albums/ah207/ParkerandMe/Norbert2_zps3d82cc76.jpg

 

[AHBD]

He does look lethargic, but at least he hasn't lost much weight. Very pretty boy, too ! Claire, do you know how much he basks ? Also, is the basking bulb a tight beam [ spot] ? The reason I ask, it could be that the only warm place is directly under the basking light so the ambient temp. may be too low. How do you offer him crickets, in the tank or taking him out in a separate feeding tank ? I personally never did that, some people do but it makes some dragons nervous. There may be a few things going on....I would suggest taking out the rock, the cave + hammock as well as the paper towels. [Just spot clean when he poos for now.] Leave only the log. If your basking light is only that one, try getting a regular 100 watt house bulb, the old fashioned kind, not energy saver. Or get a halogen bulb from a home improvement store.

For feeding, try squishing a cricket until the guts come out the back and rubbing lightly on his snout. By the way, have you tried Phoenix worms ? And do you bathe him and or offer water on his snout with a syringe ? You want to be sure he's not dehydrated. It's good that he takes some nutrition via syringe, but the bad thing is that he hates it so it is stressful for him. Hopefully you can get him interested in insects again. If he does, try just dropping a few at a time in the tank when he is not as drowsy and after you take out all the extras...but shake them up a bit in a jar first so they are dizzy + slow moving. That might attract him. Try a few of those things + see if it makes a difference.

 

[ParkerandMe]

Thanks AHBD. I have tried the bug guts thing. I squished a dubia and tried it but he was pretty reluctant and didn't lick it all off, just one tiny piece. I'm not really sure about the basking bulb, but the other temps are about 83*F on the ground and in the upper 90s on the hammock. He basks for about 5 hours a day, but seems to prefer his hammock and cooler spots. I took the other stuff out, and he is mostly sitting on the cooler part of the log. Is the point of removing things to allow him to get more heat? I have tried phoenix worms, and waxworms just to coax him into eating (I know they are not a staple). He gets a soak everyday for a minute to thirty seconds, and he usually dunks his head in and drinks a lot. I have tried the crickets in a separate box, but he just ignored them and ran into the walls trying to escape. Also, I have seen him on his log before, standing on his hind legs with his arms on the side of the cage. He moves his arms around sometimes. Is he trying to escape or get warmer? He has become very dark when I leave him in his cage, but the thing is he very rarely goes to the hottest spot, even though it is easily accessible. I will try shaking up the crickets. Thanks again for your help!

 

[ParkerandMe]

I left him in the cage, and when I came back he was really black and sick looking. Is this a problem? He seems really stressed out.

 

[AHBD]

The temps. sound O.K, I was just checking to be sure that wasn't a factor. You mentioned before that he seems to be going downhill since the vet visit ? I wonder if the doses of calcium syrup are too much, along with the syringe feeding. Are you not sure of how much to give him ? There is a dosing table at the top of this page. He does look very tired in the 3rd picture, the close up. Has he drank any water ? How often does he poo , and when was the last time ?

 

[ParkerandMe]

He drinks water everyday, and the last time he actually went poo was probably about Saturday. He usually just urinates, but I can't tell really well because the stuff I feed him is mostly clear, along with a bit of baby food. He went today when he was out of his cage. He better now, and always seems better when I take him out of his cage. I'm not sure what the dosage or anything is unfortunately.

 

[diamc]

I'm sorry to hear that your beardie isn't doing well. I too wonder if the the calcium syrup is too much especially since he has been so thirsty. Also would be a good idea to increase the bathing time as a minute isn't long enough. Would make the baths 15 to 20 minutes and offer drips of water on his nose while he is soaking.

Are you having to force the curved syringe in his mouth or does he willingly lick some off? If he doesn't like the taste of the CC formula, maybe mixing a little chicken or squash baby food with it would help him to lick more on his own.

Would be a good idea to get a fecal checked for parasites if you haven't yet.

 

[Drache613]

Hello Claire,

How is little Norbert doing?
When you say 1 unit of calcium, do you mean .1ml or 1ml?
The Reptisun 10 tube bulb is great & he should be getting plenty of UVB. It is 4 inches from him? You may want to consider moving him to a distance of 6-8 inches from the UVB light. If it is too close, it can irritate the eyes.
What type of basking light are you using? Is it a bright white light?
Is he on any antibiotics?
I would continue with the carnivore care daily so he gets some nutrition into him. He is a great looking little dragon. You could also try some bee pollen to help with immune system, too.
Let us know how he is doing.

Tracie

 

[ParkerandMe]

Thanks everyone, Norbert is doing better today! He is a lot less lethargic and more alert. One question. I moved his basking log to the other end of the cage to make it stable. Will he still be able to get UVB light? I will try to post a picture. So now instead of being in the back, he is in the front of the cage near the doors. Also, I left the rock in because it also helped the log stabilize. It is sturdy now, but not really that stable when left by itself. Tracy, the basking bulb is a 50 watt Zoo Med Repti Basking Spot Lamp which I just found out. I think the UVB light was affecting him, because now he is better. I think he might have been closing his eyes and spending time on the hammock because his eyes hurt under the light. I have heard of bee pollen and alfalfa powder as superfoods. Do you know any stores that carry them? I have seen it sold on beardeddragon.co but that's it. I'm not really sure about the units. I will also try to post a picture of it. Thanks again!
Claire

 

[AHBD]

It's good to hear that he's feeling better ! But you say that his log can't be positioned under the UVB + basking bulb ? I know some of the logs with twisted shapes can flop around.....see if you can get it where it's at least 10" from the UVB, it doesn't need to be 6" away, it will be fine at 8-10". If you need to put the hammock back, that would be O.K. as well. The reason I mentioned removing things is so that when you start dumping a few crix in at a time for feeding he will spot them more easily. Babies can become overwhelmed + crickets can easily hide when there are too many objects in the tank. Since Norbert's not been well, he needs a simpler tank to get around in and to spot his food . Hopefully he'll continue to improve....and every now + then you can try the squished cricket or dubia again.

 

[diamc]

That's good to hear that he did a little better today. He was to close to the UVB at only 4" away. Do you know if the Repti-Sun 10.0 is a high output T5 bulb or is it the standard T8? The reason I ask is because if it's a T5, it should be further away than the T8 since it is stronger.

If you could post a picture, it would be helpful so we can make sure he would still be getting some UVB penetration since you changed things around the log is on the other end.

How did he do eating today?

 

[ParkerandMe]

Thank you so much I will be posting a picture as soon as I can. I am super happy. Today he ate two crickets when I put them in his cage ! I am a little worried because they were kind of big, and one might have been a little bigger than his mouth but I am not sure. Is there anything I can do to aid digestion? I am pretty sure he will be just fine, but he hasn't eaten in weeks, so I want to make sure he will be okay. I am really excited though. Thanks so much for your help and I will post a picture as soon as I find my phone. Thanks again!!

 

[ParkerandMe]

Oh and I think he has a T8 bulb. Those are usually wider in diameter than the T5s right? Here I just uploaded to photobucket.
http://i1381.photobucket.com/albums/ah207/ParkerandMe/Nor2_zpscf7c6029.jpg
http://i1381.photobucket.com/albums/ah207/ParkerandMe/Lights_zps26888962.jpg