Baby Bearded Dragons Dying

[mfaith31]

I have had numerous clutches of baby beardies and haven't lost one of them yet...until this clutch. The other day, one of them died suddenly. He was eating fine, appeared to be nice and fat and happy, then we woke up and went to switch their lights and he looked like he'd lost all his weight over night. A couple hours later he had what felt like a seizure on my boyfriend's shirt and died. I was devastated and very confused.

Then, to make matters worse, a friend who took one of the babies called to say theirs had don't the same thing. And tonight, we lost one more. I'm at a complete loss here. It's the weekend and I can't get them in anywhere in this area. I have no idea what is happening with this clutch. We've cared for them exactly the same as all the others but they are dying. Please help!

On a side note (possibly), this is the first clutch in which we've experienced nips. We've never had them before. It also seems to be the one's who have been nipped who have died. Could it be infection? Parasites? I can't even imagine and I have no idea where to start. :`(

 

[Drache613]

Hello,

I am sorry to hear the babies are not doing well & dying off.
Have you bred the same two dragons before, or are they different dragons that you bred?
Are they are specialized morph?
It sounds like the mother may have been low in calcium at the time of laying, or adeno virus might be suspected, too.

Tracie

 

[mfaith31]

Thank you for your reply. Adeno virus (stargazing) is not really a consideration as they've never exhibited any symptoms of it whatsoever. As for the calcium, I"m not sure. Mommy got plenty while she was carrying the clutch and extra roaches and all that but she did get a little sick afterward, however. It took us a couple weeks to get her up and running again. I'm not sure if that's normal in general but she laid three clutches off that one breeding so it may have taken a lot out of her...including calcium. The mom and the dad are the same and we have bred them before. I'm just at such a loss here...I have no idea what's going on. Here's what I know for sure.

The clutch affected is the second of three clutches. Half (12) of that clutch went to the local pet store where they sell them for us for a small commission. There has been no issues with those 12 babies. There are also no issues with the babies in the new clutch. It's just the 10 left here from the divided (second) clutch that are dying. We've been killing ourselves trying to figure out what might have happened. So far, we've narrowed it down to a few things happened that were actually different than previous and subsequent clutches and that may have caused an issue. They are as follows:

One, for some reason we had nips with this clutch. Of the three passed, two (if not all three - we are trying to find out) had nips. So, I did wonder about infection. Two, when I bought their water a couple weeks ago there was no distilled water left on the shelf so I grabbed some nursery water because it had no fluoride added marked on it. It was Gerber brand. I did notice tonight that it has minerals added for taste. Potassium and magnesium included. Three, adopted a new dragon. We did, however, keep her separated for quite some time before risking cross contamination with my other 5 grown and adolescent dragons. They all seem fine though. Poo looks normal and everything. I do know that babies are much more delicate to things such as parasites than adults so that is something that crossed my mind, as well.

Do you know if nursery water is safe for baby dragons? Could the minerals included be making them sick? I've switched to regular distilled again since and won't be buying nursery water again in the future but I'm hoping that I didn't do this to them with the water. :`(

 

[Drache613]

Hello,

I hate to even mention this but from what I have read regarding "Nursery water" I believe it is laden with fluoride. I hate that companies are forcing people to drink that stuff, it is poison. Sorry, I am big into government stuff, studying a lot of subjects on it.
I can't guarantee that is what the problem is, but it is a high possibility of fluoride poisoning.
Especially if they haven't exhibited any other strange behavior, then I would lean more towards something like that instead of adeno, etc.
What else did they ingest, any types of foods/greens?

Tracie

 

[Rankins]

Doubtful the nips are the cause of death. Even if your dragons have never shown signs of adenovirus it is still possible that they can have it. Adenovirus can be in a remission state and can crop up at any time. Adult dragons may carry it and not show symptoms.
My thoughts are along the lines of Tracie's. Excessive potassium can cause seizures and heart failure. In fact lethal injections contain a high dose of potassium to stop the heart of the criminal that is executed. Probably wouldn't take much for a baby dragon to get a toxic dose.

 

[Drache613]

Hello,

Any news on the rest of your dragons right now, have any more of them passed away?
Please keep us posted on the situation.

Tracie

 

[Rankins]

What's the status of things?
Kind of worried and I think we all would appreciate an update.
Thanks, and hope things are going better.

 

[mfaith31]

Sorry, things are crazy lately. So far we have lost 4 babies. The last baby of the clutch appears to be just fine...as do the babies in the new clutch. Nips have definitely been ruled out. As for the nursery water...there was no fluoride added. However, there was magnesium, potassium, and calcium chloride I believe. Unfortunately, the last baby to pass did take a pose like those similar to the virus mentioned before. So, we are absolutely terrified right now and everything is on hold. No selling, cleaning and sanitizing every day, keeping in touch with those who bought beardies from us. I'm a complete mess. I have no idea how this could have happened. The only new animals we've introduced into our home is Sammie (a new beardy we rescued not long ago) and Pan (an 8.5 yr old yellow bellied slider turtle we bought from a very tearful owner with a new baby) around the same time. Both seem in prime health. So, at this point we are all just holding our breath, sanitizing and changing shirts before loving up each dragon,and putting all future sales, breeding, events, etc., on hold.

As for the 4 little babies that passed...my heart goes out to them. And thankfully, one of us was there with each of them to at least hold and try to comfort while they passed. I seriously wonder sometimes if I love these little guys too much. This has broken my heart completely. :`( RIP little ones. <3 We miss you terribly!

 

[Drache613]

Hello,

I am glad you haven't lost them all.
Did you test your rescue that you brought in for Adeno?
That's good the nursery water was not fluoridated then! Most of it is right now, depending on the brands.
I hope you don't lose more of them. I'm happy this last clutch seems to be doing pretty well.
They are precious souls & to lose one is to lose part of your soul along with them. At least they did not pass alone, they had you to help comfort them at the end.
Keep us posted on them.

Tracie

 

[Drache613]

Hello,

Just checking to see how things were going with your babies! I hope they are all doing well.
Let us know how things are going.


Tracie

 

[mfaith31]

So far, we haven't lost anymore. Thank God! I still have one from the second clutch and all of the newest babies. The one's we sent to the pet store are all in good health, as well. Again, I have no idea what's going on but we are keeping a strict routine up with each of them. Everyone is isolated at this time with the exception of the 4 we originally had. We still have taken to washing between each dragon but we don't change shirts between those four.

Ms. Thorne is not happy about not being able to play with Ms. Sammie. They are somewhat obsessed with one another. lol. It's cute. But I"m worried about mixing them up just yet...even though a couple of my grown dragons and been in and out of Sammie's cage.

This just really seems to be those four babies. Better safe than sorry, though. So, we will keep on and keep praying and keep our fingers crossed. So far so good, though. I'll keep you posted if anything changes.

Thank you for all your advice and concern. I absolutely love this site! <3 You guys rock!

Thanks again,

Me, Sammie, Thorne, Bitty, Peeper, Sunnie, and babies!

 

[Drache613]

Hello,

That is wonderful you haven't lost anymore of your babies then, I am sure that is a huge relief.
It's probably best not to mix them up yet, I agree. They are doing well as they are now.
I am happy that things seemed to have calmed down right now.
Definitely keep us posted on them all!

Tracie

 

[Rankins]

Have you had the new animals tested for possible diseases?
It is possible that you just got a weak clutch of eggs. I have had perfect appearing eggs that hatched to produce weak babies that died in a few days.
The worse part about breeding reptiles is that there will be losses. Its never easy...

 

[Taterbug]

It's a bit too late at this point but did you involve your vet in any of this? A necropsy on one or more of the babies may have been able to determine cause of death and given you direction to remedy the situation.

At this point it seems testing (blood work and adeno) on your dragons (at the least on the breeders and the rescue) would be a step towards figureing out if it was just a weak clutch or if there is a bigger problem.

 

[mfaith31]

Okay, so...really late reply (to say the least). But, long story short...no virus! This is good. We've actually waited this long to breed again and spent a small fortune on tests to ensure it's not adenovirus. What we found was that the chemicals in the carpet we used as a substrate in the babies cage contained an adhesive that is toxic to bearded dragons (among other living creatures...including us). I would have never thought this since we cleaned it thoroughly, disinfected it, and covered it with paper towels. However, over time these heated paper towels (which they drank off of) became subject to these chemicals.

We didn't consider this until we noticed that dragons we gave to a friend, well informed of the risk, faired extremely well outside of our provided environment. In fact, even though the first couple clutches did fine, over time, this material wore down and eventually began to emit more and more of these chemicals that ended up proving deadly to our third clutch of dragons causing neurological symptoms much like those displayed with adenovirus. We actually found out in time to save the last handful of dragons out of that clutch (in addition to those sold before our dragons started dying).

On the bright side, we have learned a very hard lesson. While we still mourn the 7 little babies we lost...we have since had almost three successful clutches...and another in the process of hatching now.

My only request from you is this...we were too busy and terrified to name these little guys throughout this process. If anyone reads this post (as old as it is) I'll take the first 7 names suggested for their pictures (still hanging over my desk) to provide closure for me and my family before we pack them away. 4 boys and 3 girls.

Thank you! And thank God it wasn't that virus! :/ God help, hold, and bless those and their dragons who end up, through some unfair and ****ed up chance of fate, actually having to actually deal with it.