B. Dubia - Facts or Fiction?

[wes]

I've seen a number of statements thrown out and I wonder if they are really true or just something that's been passed along so often, or are found on Wikipedia, people assume they are true. I'm hoping there are some members out there who can verify through personal experience whether some of these statements are fact or fiction, or clarify some of the statements.

Female Dubia produce 20-40 nymphs per month.

Why I question this: Since the gestation period is 28 days, that would mean the females are not pregnant for only about 2-3 days per month. Furthermore, if I received 35 adult females from a breeder who keeps them in an ideal setting, at least 30 should be pregnant at some stage and I should see a new set of babies on average almost every day (or dropped egg sacks). I've never heard of anyone experiencing that kind of production.

Oranges are roach viagra.

Why I question this: Are people taking into account the gestation period? The stories I read go along the lines of "I didn't see any babies until I fed them oranges." I've never read, "I finally saw babies 30 days after feeding them oranges." I fed oranges but the adults barely touched it.

Mold will destroy a colony.

Since Dubia are found among decaying matter in the wild, and prefer a climate suitable to mold growth, wouldn't they be used to mold? Would it need to be something that would have to overtake the egg cartons to really wipe them out?

Dubia produce heat.

How big of a colony do you have to have before you should be concerned about the heat from the colony affecting the bin temperature, and is this a colony of adults, nymphs or mixed? Obviously, bin size and ambient temperatures matter, too.

Dubia thrive in darkness./Ideal breeding temperatures are 85-95F.

They seem especially bothered by movement and shadows cast over them. Can Dubia adapt to light as a heat source (no moving shadows)? If you can't have the ideal dark, high eighties enclosure, is it better to have it dark and upper 70's to low 80's or light and upper 80's to low 90's?

Males are territorial./Bins can hold thousands of Dubia.

How much territory does an adult need/acquire, in terms of egg crate real estate?

Dubia take 4-6 months to reach adulthood.

They grow from 0.2cm as a baby to 4.5cm as an adult. Is it safe to say that after one month, the nymphs should be at least 0.75cm? I would like a way to monitor how many nymphs are produced per month. About approximately how long would it take for a nymph to grow to 2cm?

Thanks in advance! Hopefully some others will post additional statements they question.

 

[hartungs]

Hi Wes. I can try to answer some of your questions based on my experience.

I think the average number of babies is between 20-30 per month. I have seen babies that have just been born and made a "rough" estimate on their numbers. If you want to, just count them. I haven't seen numbers as high as 40, but others may have. You may want to do an experiment and place three females and one male in their own bin for a couple months and see what happens.

I am not sure about the claims that oranges are like Viagra. Can this be proven scientifically? Probably...but not sure who is going to do it. I have noticed that they LOVE oranges and it seems to help with production so why not do it?

I would absolutely stay away from mold. In the "wild" roaches have the ability to roam around over a large range. They can enter and exit the mold areas at will. However, if they are contained in a bin, they cannot leave and will experience the effects of constant mold exposure. It just isn't good for them.

Dubia will eventually produce their own heat. I ended up turning off my heating pad because of this. But, like you said, it depends on the bin size. I have a large bin and had thousands and thousands of all mixed sizes in there. Unfortuately, I lost almost all of my colony due to increased heat and lack of ventilation (see thread viewtopic.php?f=76&t=120321). I am now trying to build the numbers back up.

I would agree that roaches like darkness. I believe it is in their nature to want to hide if they are around light. I keep mine in a room where the light is almost always off and they are in a dark colored bin. When I go in to pull feeders (with the light on and the lid off) they run and hide. I think that if you can't have the ideal situation, that darkness and temperatures that are a bit lower would be better than light. You can always put them in a closet.

I don't know about the territorial issues...sorry.

I think that growth rates will depend on the environment that they are kept in. For example, if you have someone who keeps dubia in a clear bin with very low temperatures and doesn't feed them often, they won't thrive or grow very fast. However, if you keep them under the "ideal" conditions, they will grow faster and be stronger. You may want to do your own experiment here as well and just monitor how they do and how fast they grow under "your" specific conditions.

I hope this has helped...

 

[wes]

Thanks for taking the time to reply, Sam.

As for the breeding, it's not the number in a clutch that I question, but that a female will give birth 12 times per year. I would expect more females to arrive pregnant from breeders if that number was accurate.

That's a good point about the mold. I definitely wouldn't let the mold take over, but is it really that harmful if some food develops mold, or will that quickly expand to the egg crates? Right now, the air is so dry that I don't think I'll have to worry about mold until the spring and summer.

I'm really sorry about your loss. I would be devastated losing my small colony, I couldn't imagine losing one that size. If you don't mind my asking, how long did you have that breathable fabric and how often did you open the bin (which would allow some fresh air in)? I certainly wouldn't have thought of it, but in hindsight if you had to do it over again I suppose using some sort of fan to circulate air through there would have saved them, but I don't know what that would have done to your heat.

 

[Ihaggerty1313]

I think Sam answered those questions pretty darn accurately. However I think you may have one thing confused as far as the females go. If I'm reading this wrong than I'm sorry.

"Since the gestation period is 28 days, that would mean the females are not pregnant for only about 2-3 days per month. Furthermore, if I received 35 adult females from a breeder who keeps them in an ideal setting, at least 30 should be pregnant at some stage and I should see a new set of babies on average almost every day (or dropped egg sacks). I've never heard of anyone experiencing that kind of production." - Blaptica Dubia are ovoviviparous. This means that they give live birth. If you see a dropped egg sack that is a bad thing when it comes to Dubia. They will get inseminated by a male, eject an egg sack, then maneuver it into their pouch w/ their hind legs for the incubation cycle. Hissers are another species of roach that are ovoviviparous. Lobsters and Turks aren't and drop their sacs

Pretty much all the problems that I've seen w/ raising Dubia are created by their owners fiddling around w/ them and adjusting parameters. Remember these guys are cockroaches and cockroaches are dam near indestructible! The science and husbandry that goes into keeping these guys is far easier than pretty much any kind of living animal you can keep w/ the exception of a cat or dog. Seriously, no joke! All you have to do is keep them warm, dark, well fed and these guys will do the rest for you if you are looking to breed. They do not need a heat gradient and as a matter of fact they do better w/o one.

To give you couple examples of how tough these little guys are. I have people that will get a ton of Adult males for feeders, keep them in a room that's like 65 degrees and they are totally fine. Heck, I ship these guys w/o heat paks... literally. I haven't used one yet this season w/ 0 problems (and it's COLD right now in NE). I've had 2 people tell me that a mailman didn't follow the shipping directions and they found their package next day w/ all of their roaches "dead".... We heated them up slowly and within 3 hours EVERY single roach thawed out, came back to life and has been doing great to this very day. That's how durable these guys are.

The only 2 things I've seen take these guys out (besides Beardies ) are mold and ventilation issues as in Sam's case. That's it... Other than that good luck trying to kill them! LOL!!!

-Ian
http://www.theroachranch.com

 

[wes]

If I understand you correctly, while a female is carrying a clutch of fertilized eggs in a pouch, another egg sack is being produced so that after she gives "birth" she can mate again within a few days. So, theoretically, a female Dubia can "give birth" every month.

If biologically that is what can happen, it doesn't seem to work in practice. Ian, you probably take as good care of your roaches as anyone and I have read enough testimonials to believe that, so you should be as close to the theoretically possible as anyone.

For a female to give "birth" 12 times a year, carrying each clutch of fertilized eggs for 28 days, she would have to be "pregnant" (28 x 12) = 336 days per year. That would be 336/365 = 92% of the time. So at any time, 92% of your females should be at some stage of "pregnancy." If you ship out 36 females, 92% or 33 should be "pregnant." That means within 28 days, following your instructions for husbandry and based on 20-30 nymphs per clutch, the person should have at minimum (33 x 20) = 660 nymphs and they would have on average eight "births" per week for the first four weeks. Does anyone experience results like that? Or is there something I'm missing in these equations?

 

[ez2bbad64]

i have to roach setups both 40 breeder tanks with under tank heaters the lower one runs cold so i put a hot light on it that hot light also keeps the upper one warmer as it radiates heat and warms the floor of the upper one. the roaches with the light ate very little they wouldent come out to eat so i got a red 100w flood light bulb from menards for under $4 and they have been really really active since and eating like pigs!

 

[wes]

i have to roach setups both 40 breeder tanks with under tank heaters the lower one runs cold so i put a hot light on it that hot light also keeps the upper one warmer as it radiates heat and warms the floor of the upper one. the roaches with the light ate very little they wouldent come out to eat so i got a red 100w flood light bulb from menards for under $4 and they have been really really active since and eating like pigs!

Thanks, ez2bbad, this might really help me. Could you please clarify some things? Swapping out the hot light for the red flood light caused the roaches in the lower tank to be more active and eat more. Did it change the temperatures at all? How long did you have the hot light in? Do you have adults, nymphs, or a mix in the lower tank? I assume you block other light from the tank, no?

Right now I have about 50-60 adults in a separate bin, heated by a light (darkened with a marker), and 500+ nymphs in a bin heated by a heating pad. The nymphs eat much more, but I don't know if that is because: a) there are more of them, b) they just eat more than adults because they are growing, c) they can eat in the dark, or any combination of the above.

 

[ez2bbad64]

the red flood is warmer then the household bulb i had in and not only warmed the lower tank that its over also increased floor temps in the tank above. right now i do not have anything blocking other light from getting in either tank i do plan on getting some black construction paper and covering the back sides and front of both tanks the front one will be put on with velcro so i can take it off to see whats going on in there. when i switched that light to the red one the roaches came out as soon as i switched them they are deff more actve now and eating more. the lower tank that that red light covers is my breeder tank it contains mostly adults with a bunch of newborns.
the upper tank deff outeats the lower one that is my feeder tank! it contains the youngsters of many diffrent sizes i just take any that are big enough to tell if they are male or female and put those in the breeder tank

 

[wes]

So you definitely attribute the change to the red light and not the increased temps because it was immediate. That makes sense. I have a red flood that the previous owners left, so I might give it a try. It will be too hot if kept in for any length of time, but I'm curious if more would come out right away. I do see them feeding on occasion, sometimes as many as three at a time, and some of them usually "hang out" near the edge where I can see them, so maybe it's not too dark, but I would prefer darker. Thanks for sharing your findings!

When do you move your babies to the feeder bin?

 

[ez2bbad64]

yes i belive the change was in fact due to the change from a white light to a red one. i havent had my colony long when i cleaned it out last time i moved all the babies to one bin and now i have little ones all over the breeder bin again so soon i will move them to the other bin too

 

[crazyseany]

I think I got 120 large and 20 adult pairs from IAN about 3 months (maybe less) ago.

I have recently seen a HUGE boost in the smalls in my tote! There has to be over 100. I had a few clutches right away but now I believe most of the larges have become adults and are breeding themselves. I would like to get another bunch from him eventually to "superboost" my colony... But it really is getting rolling and they are starting to go through food like crazy.

I have them sitting on a large heating pad and in a 40 or 50 galln tote... Lots of room in there!

our BD goes crazy for these things... We've only fed out of it if we run out of crickets for the week...


sean

you should try setting up 2 totes with a male and female... After they have babies ... Pull them and then see how long it is till the next batch... Have 2 grps and do it fore 3-4 sets of babies... Could also record how long it takes to reach various sizes.....

 

[wes]

Sean, I might try that at some point. I'll have to figure out where I can keep them, though. Probably a few small containers inside a bin should work. As far as how long it takes to reach a certain size, one thing I noticed is that the babies sure seem to be larger than 0.2cm, unless I am not spotting them until they have grown twice that size. (I try to disturb the cartons as little as possible, so maybe they could have grown that fast in a week's time. I don't know.)

Your results sure seem to confirm that they don't have a clutch every month, unless you had a typo. Twenty adult females for about three months and now sixty more for maybe a month? The numbers don't add up.

 

[crazyseany]

I'm not sure how many babies I have but there are alot... !!

gonna try and let them do their thing for anoth couple months... I have a guy I can get 1k crickets for 15 bucks so it's not to big of a deal to wait....

sean

 

[spyder79]

If you ship out 36 females, 92% or 33 should be "pregnant." That means within 28 days, following your instructions for husbandry and based on 20-30 nymphs per clutch, the person should have at minimum (33 x 20) = 660 nymphs and they would have on average eight "births" per week for the first four weeks. Does anyone experience results like that? Or is there something I'm missing in these equations?

Here is the issue with this equation. Females, when stressed, will drop their egg sac. So all those babies that they could conceavably have within that first 30 days a large portion will be aborted. You also have to realize that when in a new enclosure on a new schedule with new temps and humidity they are easily stressed and can drop their egg sacs. Thats why its not normally until the 2nd-3rd month before you start seeing nymphs pop up in your colony.

 

[Ihaggerty1313]

I think everyone is giving great advice on this thread and I like how it gets down to some number crunching and the what if's ect. All that is good and well and you need that knowledge to provide the proper husbandry to them. However I will tell you this w/ 100% certainty. Over the years I've found that people who have the most problems raising roaches are the ones who micromanage their colonies. There's 3 things you need for Dubia to mass produce.

-Heat (I know it's tough sometimes but try to at least get it into the 80's)
-Constant supply of food (fresh fruit, a high protein chow, and water gel)
-Darkness (24/7)

There's a couple great roach dealers on here, Jason (The Roach Guy), Marcus (A.F. Exotics), and I believe Aaron Pauling graces the forums from time to time and a few others (but I'm not sure if they're still in business) and they'll all tell you the same thing. Set it up and leave them alone. We all breed in mass quantities to supply our clientele and it's the only way to go.

All this knowledge that you're gathering is half the battle and well worth the effort to absorb and learn. But when it comes down to it go the simple, easy route for success. Tweak the process only IF you have to. Another thing to keep in mind is that as a breeding colony gets to around 3 months, I've found that they just start to boom for a good 6 months thereafter. There's a wind up phase, a booming phase, and then the colony will start to wind down. Never feed off your females, just let them die off so you know you got their maximum potential. And replace the males as they start to die. I actually keep charts on my colonies to I know what's in what and if I have to adjust the m/f ratio.

Other than that this thread is really interesting and coming out beautiful! It's gonna be a great resource to future members. Cheers to that guys!

-Ian
http://www.theroachranch.com