Argument with a local breeder...

[Oniko]

I was reading local classified adds on my phone the other day, and noticed a bearded dragon breeder trying to sell her remaining beardie from her most recent clutch.

In her add she was telling people to feed it green leaf lettuce, and four medium sized crickets per day.

I emailed her and nicely suggested she do a bit more research so that she was passing on the correct information to people that purchase babies from her. I told her that medium sized crickets are too big for a baby dragon, that green leaf lettuce is not something she should be feeding them due to it mainly being water once broken down, and that she should switch to collard, mustard or dandelion greens instead. I pointed her towards this forum for wonderful information on beardies.

I also explained that impacted bowels are a risk if she is feeding the babies crickets that are too big.

Anyways, she replied like this...

Everyone has there own option and own ways on how they look after there breaded dragons, i am knowledge VERY well on them so im pretty sure i know what im doing.
BTW fruits will give them the runs because they are to acidic for them
Medium crickets are NOT TO BIG for them i know all about impaction as thats not what causes it
So i don't appreciate you trying to tell me (AN EXPERIENCED BREEDER AND OWNER FOR YEARS) than im giving out fasle information, i know exactly how to care for them and what is right and wrong

So now I find out they are not being offered any fruit at all in their diet... wow.

I explain why they need fruit, tell her about the natural kink in the baby intestines of a beardie, and go over the proper diet again with her. She replies again with the same type of attitude. I respond again, a bit more curtly because frankly when people don't expand their minds and animals suffer for that, I get really ticked off. I was still diplomatic in my response, but was more forceful in my tone.

This was the last response to me;

you have no right telling me how to care for my bearded dragons I have months of research that I've done on them and plenty of years experience with them as well, all my lizard have been eating leaf lettuce for years and they are extremely healthy, plus that's how they get there water and stay hydrated. I've sold babies to people who already have beardies and they are feeding them the exact same thing I feed mine, you have your ways and I have my ways and if you don't like the way I do things then that's just to BAD

This is the ad: http://kelowna.kijiji.ca/c-pets-other-pets-for-sale-Baby-Bearded-Dragon-For-Sale-W0QQAdIdZ475589833

I don't want to rally troops to email her, but yet I do. My biggest pet peeve is when breeders send babies home with people and start them off with the absolute wrong care information. It's just as bad as when pet shops do it.

I wanted to share my frustration here

 

[Spoony]

Just give her this website, or gather and share stories about babies who have had issues that have stemmed from care instructions such as her own.

 

[Oniko]

I gave her this website the first time I wrote her, and put in some stories as well. She reacted very immaturely. I was surprised at the response actually... I thought at worst she would be be passive, but she got super defensive.

 

[Spoony]

Then perhaps an army of letters is best because she shouldn't be breeding if this is the way she "cares" for them.

 

[htidavid]

aside from the dumb information... She is charging an insane price. Lol at Orange being rare. I see orange beardies at Petco all the time :roll:

 

[Oniko]

Then perhaps an army of letters is best because she shouldn't be breeding if this is the way she "cares" for them.

Yeah that's what I was thinking. I get upset when an owner feeds or cares for their dragons improperly, let alone a breeder who is selling them to others, and those people are relying on her for factual information.

If someone does wrong but seeks help for it, or asks advice or makes any attempt to educate themselves further, I don't get upset because we all had to learn. Hell I'm still learning! But to blatantly disregard better care guidance is crazy to me. I always welcome suggestions if someone sees something I'm not doing right!

 

[Oniko]

aside from the dumb information... She is charging an insane price. Lol at Orange being rare. I see orange beardies at Petco all the time :roll:

Right?! She's just gouging people because we really don't have a lot of breeders here, and very rarely will you see hatchlings for sale. I drove to Vancouver (4-6 hour drive) and back in one day to get my two babies. But she knows that, and so she's just making up stories to gouge people with such prices.

And orange being rare is quite funny... I admit to giggling at that too initially.

 

[w0554096]

She sounds exactly like the breeder I got my first dragon from!
It's so unfortunate because alot of people would rather buy from a breeder thinking that their beardies are healthy and following the breeder's advice. Meanwhile she probably got her first dragon from Petsmart, ordered a couple colorful ones and started breeding and passing on the same bad info. Doesn't 4 crickets a day and lettuce sound like very familiar petstore advice?
Gah!
These type of people should give out disclaimers. "Warning, I am not to be held responsible after you've purchased one of my dragons and do some reasearch, and end up having to spend additional hundreds of dollars. I am perfectly within my rights to be giving bad advice".

Some days I really hate people. I can't email her right now, as I would not be very diplomatic. I do encourage other people to contact her. I'd reccomend not stating that you found out about the ad from the OP though, or she'll probably just dismiss the advice, but if enough people 'see her ad' and tell her to do some research, it may eventually sink in.

I think I'm going to post an ad for bearded dragon owners in my area refering them to this site. Hopefully they will end up here before purchasing a dragon, and everyone who owns a dragon will take a look too and correct their set ups.

Sorry for the vent-fest everyone. I guess with all of the previous ads for rescues, and people selling emaciated beardies, this was the last straw.
It's so totally unavoidable if people just DO some research.
Thank god there's a community of like minded people here.

 

[Oniko]

She sounds exactly like the breeder I got my first dragon from!
It's so unfortunate because alot of people would rather buy from a breeder thinking that their beardies are healthy and following the breeder's advice. Meanwhile she probably got her first dragon from Petsmart, ordered a couple colorful ones and started breeding and passing on the same bad info. Doesn't 4 crickets a day and lettuce sound like very familiar petstore advice?
Gah!
These type of people should give out disclaimers. "Warning, I am not to be held responsible after you've purchased one of my dragons and do some reasearch, and end up having to spend additional hundreds of dollars. I am perfectly within my rights to be giving bad advice".

Some days I really hate people. I can't email her right now, as I would not be very diplomatic. I do encourage other people to contact her. I'd reccomend not stating that you found out about the ad from the OP though, or she'll probably just dismiss the advice, but if enough people 'see her ad' and tell her to do some research, it may eventually sink in.

I think I'm going to post an ad for bearded dragon owners in my area refering them to this site. Hopefully they will end up here before purchasing a dragon, and everyone who owns a dragon will take a look too and correct their set ups.

Sorry for the vent-fest everyone. I guess with all of the previous ads for rescues, and people selling emaciated beardies, this was the last straw.
It's so totally unavoidable if people just DO some research.
Thank god there's a community of like minded people here.

I so totally feel you! It was really hard to be diplomatic. I was trying to break through her stubborn nature and get her to listen. I got a bit snippy as the emails went on though, but not half as much as I wanted to.

To counter her, I've decided to do exactly what you said actually... I'm going to post on the popular sites that people go to for classifieds and educate potential new owners, and maybe even some that already own dragons.

Four crickets a day is NOT enough, never mind how BIG they are for how small those babies are. SCARES ME. And lettuce? I just don't even...

Also, I came here hoping others would email her, and like you said, not mention me. I don't know if it would work, but she might get shaken enough to open her block head and look after the beards properly, as well as pass on PROPER information.

I can't imagine how sad of a life those beards will have. I can only hope the new owners already know more than her, or have a brain to go and educate themselves.

I love this community <3

 

[Brandonforty2]

Maybe they know that they are giving bad info. They might be trying to give bad info so the beardies die. The owner feels bad and blame it on something they did and gets another one. They ask the breeder and the breeder blames it on fumes from repti-carpet, use reptisand; UVB bulb gives off harmful rays, put them bye a window; etc... More beardies bought, more money. Hopefully this isn't what they do because that is just wrong but people want money.

 

[SciencePam]

The pet shop I got my beardie from told me to feed him romaine and carrots and only ever fed him crickets. When I got him home and fed him the veggies he's supposed to get he didn't want them at first! All those months on junk food and he didn't know what to do with the good stuff. He finally started eating the good stuff after a few days.

There is a lot of confusing and contradictory information out there. If your a newbie like myself its rather overwhelming. I'm so glad I found this site.

 

[Oniko]

If you don't care then why do you keep saying stuff, you care for yours the way you want to and I'll care for mine the way I WANT TO! BTW NOT EVERYONE HAS THE SAME WAYS OF CARING FOR THERE LIZARDS, and FYI they don't live in the wild so they don't eat wild foods that they usually would if they were in the wild, so STOP TRYING TO TELL ME THAT I'M DOING THINGS WRONG WHEN I AM AN EXPERIENCED BREEDER FOR YEARS NOW AND JUST MIND YOUR OWN BUSINESS!!!

I've been told.

:roll:

 

[Chaosadnd1]

Most people get that defensive even if they are wrong when someone they don't know points something out. heck, even if you do know them. My 9 year old daughter goes ballistic when I try to tell her how to do something on angry birds/bad piggies. It's a clear sign of stubbornness and a sense of moral superiority. "How dare someone tell me I am doing something wrong when it has worked up until now!" I think it's the natural reaction of a person.

People are strange.

 

[ohmybandit]

Oh my... My grammar nazi self came out reading all her misspelled words lol. She would've hated me for that reason alone

 

[HYPORollo]

I just got into a simular argument with a brainless ignorant bleep bleep. That has an ad on craigslist selling thier 7 dragons n feqw leapord geckos n telling people that the dragons are in pairs sharing the same tank n shes not sure of thier sex n that they must be sold together n are to stay together because beardies have to have a partner n the best one yet is she has a dragon n gecko in the same tank and they also cant not live without each other they are beat friends and they both are males i tried to explain the dangers of housing two dragons together especialy not knowing the sex n then how the gecko n dragon should never be left in the same tank she proceeded to tell me i was dumb word edited by moderator and had no idea about reptiles and how i should mind my buisness cause she has read a couple of books and they say nothing about not putting them together and that. How would i know better than a book n i let her know how long ive been in the reptile world and my knoledge from breeding snakes geckos n dragons as well as the feeder buisness i had come to find out she was a regular customer years ago n told me she. Learned more than what she knew back then n that my info was out dated she told me to check this site out n i could learn something new i told her i been a member since 09 whats her screen name n she stopped replying people are going to do what they feel n the ignorant ones that have no clue wont change its best to just try n get all the animals they have away from them.