Antibiotic Use

[pogismom]

So I thought Pogi was out of the woods. He has had two weeks of treatment for Pinworms and three dose treatments for cocidia.

After his first round of he pinworm treatment his fecal was negative and I guess the coccidia was no longer elevated. But they gave me the second round of pinworm treatment just to be sure...and said when I was finished with that and the last dose of the coccidia treatment to come get another fecal done.

I brought his poop sample today for a recheck plus him...he has gained ALOT since he started his treatments. He is up to 24 grams and 8 inches. He acts fine, eats well etc...

But I got a call saying I need to go back to speak with vet as soon as possible to discuss his situation and to start more treatments for the coccidia...not feeling good about this.

Anyone know if this can be a vicious cycle? Will he not thrive? We are so attached to him...but I worry that this may not be a good situation....

 

[Drache613]

Hello,

Which medication was used for the coccidia?
Did they give any counts of the coccidia after this last fecal exam?

It sounds like he is doing well now, gaining weight & growing. How is his appetite?

Tracie

 

[pogismom]

Not sure but will find out soon when I meet with vet this morning. I have a great deal of confidence in her and think she always has the animals best Interest at heart. She herself has owned Beardies and other reptiles so I know she also speaks from personal experience.

Pogi really is doing well. He didn't eat as many feeders yesterday. I alternate his feeders from different worms to dubias. He only are about 3 of his dubias yesterday but I think it is because he is shedding. This is his first shed and it is taking FOREEVER. Last night I saw his leg had shed and skin was still attached so that may have slowed down his appetite. He literally just sheds in bits n pieces n parts at a time. Guess I thought they get their whole skin off during one time. Not sure if that affects his cocidia levels too. Meanwhile I do give him daily short soaks in his pond bowl. He seems to be appreciating those more n more. I make it a daily routine so he gets comfortable. He even started drinking a little of his water from the pond vs my fingers so I take that as more relaxed and curious.

Veggies are still a mystery if he eats them or not. I only saw him eat them one time. And it was just a couple of nibbles then back to his basking tree. I prepare them fresh every morning in tank and leave it there till late afternoon which is when he gets his feeders. he gobbles those up fairly quickly. I only give him 10 at a time.

Ill post the outcome of my vet consultation later today. Guess I just want to know if this sort of thing shortens their lives or the quality of their lives. Knowing that helps me prepare for things and helps me let my kids know what to expect.

Thanks for asking!

 

[pogismom]

Spoke with vet and she said that based on the three fecals they have done on Pogi, he appears to be recontaminating himself with Cocidia. The 1st fecal was quite high both with cocidia and pinworms. after 1 week of treatment the 2nd fecal was negative. but they gave him another round just to be safe. the next fecal showed an elevation again in the cocidia. So the vet thinks he must be reinfecting himself.

So he is on two more weeks of Albon. Plus I am to sterilize his cage, etc...every 3 days with watered down beach solution.

Thank goodness I kept his 20 gallon tank. I had to improvise with some miscellaneous cage items like a basking space and hammock and paper towel bedding. I just hope he doesn't get totally depressed from not being in his lovely large cage with all the fun stuff in it. But for now he is on bare necessities in the smaller tank until we get this cocidia under control.

So I removed all his stuff, wiped it down good with bleach. let the bleach dry and rinsed it off. I even put all his tank accessories in the dish water in sani-wash cycles. Will run the dishwasher again by itself afterwards to be sure I am cleaning it out as well. I plan to just let the accessories dry out with the hopes if anything is still clinging to his stuff they will die without a host.

So he is in sick bay or two weeks. It will be a lot easier to sterilize the smaller tank for sure.

 

[Tonja]

I don't know what type of furniture you have in his tank but if you have wood logs or hides for basking, Take them out and wash them well in HOT water, let them dry a bit and put them in the oven on foil or a foil lined cookie sheet and back them at 250-275 for 30 to 45 mins to kill anything in them. In the meantime use cardboard boxes for a hide and basking area something you can take out and throw away and replace daily till he is negative again, You can use a steamer for his tank provided it is hot steam and not just hot water coming out of the spout. For Geico I used totrazuril and 2 treatments knocked the coccidian down to acceptable levels. Make sure with antiparasitics you use a probiotic <soy yogurt> 2 hours after he has his meds and up to two weeks after he is done. Antiparasitics like antibiotics can kill off the good gut flora and the probiotic will help in replenishing the gut flora he needs for healthy innards and digestion. Hope this helps.

 

[pogismom]

I don't know what type of furniture you have in his tank but if you have wood logs or hides for basking, Take them out and wash them well in HOT water, let them dry a bit and put them in the oven on foil or a foil lined cookie sheet and back them at 250-275 for 30 to 45 mins to kill anything in them. In the meantime use cardboard boxes for a hide and basking area something you can take out and throw away and replace daily till he is negative again, You can use a steamer for his tank provided it is hot steam and not just hot water coming out of the spout. For Geico I used totrazuril and 2 treatments knocked the coccidian down to acceptable levels. Make sure with antiparasitics you use a probiotic <soy yogurt> 2 hours after he has his meds and up to two weeks after he is done. Antiparasitics like antibiotics can kill off the good gut flora and the probiotic will help in replenishing the gut flora he needs for healthy innards and digestion. Hope this helps.

Thank you Tonja! The vet gave me some probiotics to give him daily with his treatments. Last night I took out his other smaller tank and put an extra hammock in it plus paper towel, and a basking rock...both would be easy to disinfect with diluted bleach and washed in dishwasher and sterilize. I didn't want to add more stress to him by taking away all his comforts.

With his other stuff and tank I sterilize it all last night when he slept. It has been bleached and went through the dishwasher sterilize setting. Couldn't even smell any bleach on anything when it came out. I wiped down his tank with diluted bleach and after awhile wiped it all down again a few times to remove any residue. Nothing is living on that stuff for sure. So it will be all ready for him once he gets the green light.

I will keep him in his smaller tank since it will be easier to manage in terms of the more frequent sterilizations. Though I like the idea of just using boxes that I can dispose of when it is time to clean out his cages. Goodness knows I have a ton of them for I ship my fleece products in them.

It will be a long tedious two weeks but if we get through this together we will have one happy, healthy, and gorgeous beardie to look forward to!

 

[Taterbug]

Coccidia can be tenacious, and the oocycsts in particular are very difficult to kill. They may be resistant to bleach and other cleaning products. A steamer (+165 degrees) is great and complete cage cleaning frequently may greatly raise your chances of reducing the load to manageable levels. In particular, anything that gets poop on it should be sterilized or discarded. It's great you already have a hospital tank for him. If you can replace any if his furniture with disposable stuff as tonja suggests, it will ensure you can dispose if the oocysts.

 

[pogismom]

Coccidia can be tenacious, and the oocycsts in particular are very difficult to kill. They may be resistant to bleach and other cleaning products. A steamer (+165 degrees) is great and complete cage cleaning frequently may greatly raise your chances of reducing the load to manageable levels. In particular, anything that gets poop on it should be sterilized or discarded. It's great you already have a hospital tank for him. If you can replace any if his furniture with disposable stuff as tonja suggests, it will ensure you can dispose if the oocysts.

Thank you I will look into the steamer. Do you have any particular brand that you would recommend? I have other pet cages I might use that on. I have birdcages dog cages rabbit cages and guinea pig cages. A fever might help cut back on our cleaning time for all of the cages. I Understand they are also great to use on kitchen counters stove top oven bathrooms. Am I correct? Reducing the use of so many chemicals would certainly benefit everyone.

I do believe that The sanitize cycle in my dishwasher help kill off any of the egg on his cage accessories Especially after they had been sitting in bleach for at least an hour. The main item that really gets pooped on is hos basking tree and substrate. The The tree was heavily Steralized and the carpet substrate Discarded. I am going to go and buy some slate tiles to use as substrate for when he gets better.

By the way should I be wearing any gloves when handling him right now? I have not been and I have been careful to wash my hands frequently when ever I get him out to give him meds or a bath. I know it can be contagious to humans as well. My vet said if I start having extreme stomach issues to alert my dr I have been exposed to a reptile w cocidia. My family hasn't handled him and ironically they have more tummy issues than I lately!

Thank you for your continued support n guidance!

 

[Tonja]

I have a scunzi steamer and it works great, the steam at a measurable temp is 180 degrees. I use it once a week to thoroughly clean their tanks and furniture along with a professional cleaner I got online, will have to look for it and give you the url for it but think it was beardeddragon.co

I use my steamer on bathroom mirrors, has an attachment for it, countertops, floor behind the toilet and the base of it. Stovetop, countertops, microwave, cutting boards, I love my steamer and it will cut the grease in the oven with the nylon brush attachment. I even steam my mattress twice a month and curtains.

 

[Taterbug]

I have a little steamfast and while it's ok, I would not recommend it or buy it again. Steamets are great for cleaning all sorts of things the high pressure hot steam jet gets into crevices vet well.

 

[pogismom]

I'm going to get the McCullough Heavy Duty Canister style cleaner.

 

[Drache613]

Hello,

Just wanted to check in & see how your dragon was doing today?
Is he eating well I hope?
I am sure that the new steamer will really help a lot. They really do kill a lot & help cut down infections, too.
Normally unless you have a suppressed immune system, you shouldn't have to worry about getting ill from handling a reptile, especially if they are clean.

Let us know how things are going.

Tracie

 

[pogismom]

Hello,

Just wanted to check in & see how your dragon was doing today?
Is he eating well I hope?
I am sure that the new steamer will really help a lot. They really do kill a lot & help cut down infections, too.
Normally unless you have a suppressed immune system, you shouldn't have to worry about getting ill from handling a reptile, especially if they are clean.

Let us know how things are going.

Tracie

Thank you Tracie for checking up on Pogi! He seems to be doing well. His veggies looked like they had been messed about with but not sure if that was because ate them or walked through them. He ate 12 Phoenix worms this afternoon and seems to be adjusting to his hospital set up. Left me a poo near his drinking pond so he must have gone it. this was the first morning i havent given him his daily bath. So after which he tends to poop in his tree. So this may have been his way to get his bath fix. Will take all his things out again tonight n tomorrow to sterilize in dishwasher.

I understand this parasite is sticky so I hope by moving things about I'm not 'spreading' it more.

Thank you for the reassurance on handling him. I love holding him. I liken it to the relaxing sensations one gets with rubbing a worry stone when he sits in my hand and I rub his head or back. Something calming about that.

I have been spoiled with the other tank with front doors. I do not like to lift his lid to get him for I have to disturb his light set up and he seems uncertain when he sees the giant ladies claws reach for him from above vs a more agreeable sideways approach I had with the other. But this is by far going to be easier to manage his care in a smaller enclosure. In two weeks hopefully we will have a handle on this Yuck and he can be spoiled again in his roomy tank.

 

[Drache613]

Hello,

That is great Pogi is doing pretty well today.

I hope he is adjusting to his hospital tank. Poor guy. At least he is going to the bathroom regularly. How was his stool?
I am glad to hear he did have some phoenix worms though. He will be fine until he gets to be back in his mansion again!
It is very relaxing to hold them, especially to hold them at night to put them to bed, too.
Is he ok with you getting him from overhead? I think he will get used to that though, as he knows you.
You are doing great! I hope he is feeling better soon.

Tracie

 

[pogismom]

He seems to be doing ok so far Tracie. I could not get the steamer like I wanted. Walmart no longer carries them in the store so I will order tonight online.

I am taking his dishes and his accessories out each night n putting them in dishwasher in the sterilizing and sanitizing cycle. Ill wipe some bleach on them first. I do it when he is sleeping. This way it is ready in the morning. Ill slip him onto a cotton cloth or one of my fleece blankets I sell. It holds up well in hot washes w bleach.

Ironically he seems more comfy in a smaller enclosure. In his larger one he likes to Hang out mostly on his tree. Maybe wondering around in a larger space makes him feel a little more vulnerable. But those front doors are awesome in getting access to him wo disturbing the lights

Have u ever used slate or porcelain tiles as substrate? Sounds more sanitary. Wonder if it gets too hot under the basking light..

I want to hold him so bad! I'm actually looking forward to when he gets full grown. Holding a chunky beardie is an appealing idea for me.