Another genetics question...!!! woohoo!

[Pravius]

Ok guys,

So I have yet another genetics question that I have been really trying to find info on the net on and have been unsuccessful. I have been researching the different morphs. Leathers, Silkies, Colors, Hypo's Ect. I wanted to get creative on my next pair and come up with something really cool. I have decided on a leather x blood cross. I want to try to create an extreme line of Red leatherbacks really just for looks I am not in this for any sort of $$$$. I have always been in the Flame, Blood, Cawley reds I just really love the red dragons that I see around and Leathers have really just caught my attention recently.

The question that I have does not necessarily pertain to my project however. I am wondering more of less on how people come up with a % chance of a color or a % chance of a trait. I understand recessive, dominant, co-dominate ect... what I do not understand is how someone, or how to know whiich trait or characteristic is the aforementioned. Like how do we know that Leatherback is a co-dominate trait? Just by experimentation or is there some sort of equation or way to tell.

Like for instance Hypo from what I have read is a recessive trait meaning that is is rare or hard to produce offspring with this trait unless you have hypoxhypo which would make the offspring 50% het for Hypo... one normal x hypo would make the offsprint 25% het for hypo? Is my understanding of that correct?

Anyway I know I jumped around alot... probably because I have a million and one thoughts running through my head about this ... this kind of stuff REALLY REALLY interests me and unfortunately I am not a Geneticist (Wish I would have went to school for it!).

Any help on this would be GREATLY appreciated.

 

[sparky5969]

Well hopefully I can help you out. Hypo's, translucents, leatherbacks are all recessive traits. Meaning you need 2 pairs of the gene to make a visual offspring. A hypo x hypo will produce visual hypos and can also produce100% hets for hypo. Same goes for leatherbacks and translucents. You can also get visuals from 100% hets x 100% hets and 100% hets x visuals. So a hypo to a normal will give you all 100% het hypo hatchlings. The percent you seen in front of some saying 50% or 66% is the chance you have that, that animals is 100% het for that trait. for instance if I have a 66% het hypo there is a 66% chance that animal is 100% het hypo and 33% chance that it is not. The percents show you your chance of being 100% het there are no 50% hets either its het or not the percentages are the chance of being 100%. Hope this helps and not confuse you more :O).

 

[Pravius]

ahh that does enlighten me a ton thank you!!!

How does one come up with that number though? Tracing it back to the lineage of what was crossed with what?

So like you have this example:

dragon pair 1 (father hypo x mother normal) say all babies come out normal but obviously some will carry the recessive hypo gene making them het hypo but what % chance is that given that the father was 100% hypo... I mean they could inherit the mothers genes as well so if they are not visual how would one know that it is even het for anything other then normal... GAH!?

Dragon Pair 2 (Father het hypo, his father was visual hypo x blood female) This is where it gets confusing to me... first you are really trusting the word of the breeder saying it is het for anything.. I guess that's where pics of the parents, grandparents (visual evidence that the gene is really in them) come into play... but what percentage are the babies now that the father is not visual but is het for hypo and the mother is blood.

Like is there an equation that you know of that may be able to put some logic into this lol...

Edit: I may be making this too hard, I do that all the time...over analyze I have been cursed with this way of thinking.. tell me if I am

 

[sparky5969]

Lol it is ok it can be confusing. If you have one parent that is visual recessive like a hypo all offspring are normal coloring and 100% het for hypo. I currentlly have baby's for this same pairing. I have a extrem yellow peach male x hypo pastel female, so all my babies have yellow peach coloring and they are all 100% het hypo. The 2nd pairing is a little trickier but not that hard. If your male is 100% het hypo (not visual) x normal fem the ofspring will all be 50% het hypo. As you can not tell which ones are het or not they all have a 50% chance of being het. It is pretty much a 50/50 shot at picking one that is het. Now this is where it gets a little confusing(if I haven't lost you already :O)) If you have a male 100% het hypo x female 100% het hypo you will get visual hypos(clear nails) and normal looking babies. All the babies are 66% het hypo because out of 4 babies you should get 1 hypo and 3 normal looking babies. Out of the 3 normal looking babies 2 of the 3 should be 100% het hypo and the last baby is normal. Because you can't tell the difference between the normal and het babies they are all 66% hets as you have a 2 out of 3 chance of having a 100% hets. Hope I didn't make your head explode lol

 

[Pravius]

Ah ha I get it now...!! for the most part :shock:

Pairing number 1 you referenced that if you have 1 visual and all the babies are normals then they would be 100% het hypo... which actually now makes sense as I am typing this because they are all carrying that recessive gene... I see even though they do not show it they all carry the gene hence making them het hypo.. even though it is a recessive gene and may be outdone by a dominant or co-dominant gene they still carry that gene... and then when you pair them with something else that does not carry the gene you are decreasing the chance that the gene will be passed down because it is recessive...

I guess it's like human genetics brown eyes are dominant over blue yet that blue gene being recessive may show and out do the brown gene... I wonder what makes it do that ... but I guess that's another topic! lol...

Genetics are fun!!!!!

Anyway I thank you so much for helping me understand this.

 

[citrusdragon]

Check out this genetic calculator

http://www.geneticswizard.com/f_start_genetics_wizard.asp

Once you figure out how to fill in the blanks it breaks things down very well

Jeff

 

[Pravius]

Thanks alot Jeff. That looks like the exact tool I was looking for.

 

[Maize]

I'm in the same boat. I would like to know how the whole breeding w\ genetics works. But it is very imprtant to look back at the granparents genetics aswell. Arent these just as important?

Also I checked the calculator that was given above, what does "Choose the total number of mutant genetic traits you want considered".

 

[Maize]

Lol it is ok it can be confusing. If you have one parent that is visual recessive like a hypo all offspring are normal coloring and 100% het for hypo. I currentlly have baby's for this same pairing. I have a extrem yellow peach male x hypo pastel female, so all my babies have yellow peach coloring and they are all 100% het hypo. The 2nd pairing is a little trickier but not that hard. If your male is 100% het hypo (not visual) x normal fem the ofspring will all be 50% het hypo. As you can not tell which ones are het or not they all have a 50% chance of being het. It is pretty much a 50/50 shot at picking one that is het. Now this is where it gets a little confusing(if I haven't lost you already :O)) If you have a male 100% het hypo x female 100% het hypo you will get visual hypos(clear nails) and normal looking babies. All the babies are 66% het hypo because out of 4 babies you should get 1 hypo and 3 normal looking babies. Out of the 3 normal looking babies 2 of the 3 should be 100% het hypo and the last baby is normal. Because you can't tell the difference between the normal and het babies they are all 66% hets as you have a 2 out of 3 chance of having a 100% hets. Hope I didn't make your head explode lol

Yes my head is exploding. I dont understand why there isnt actual literature on breeding with genetics.

 

[Pravius]

What questions were you looking to have answered. In my searches I have not quite found a very specific genetics link that will break it down. I mean it is an extremely complex subject and should take some time to learn, but what were you looking to have answered?

Check this out, I have been reading these over and over and over trying to get a better understanding of how genetics work.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genetics

http://www.mbdragons.eu/en/genetica.html

http://www.dachiu.com/beardeddragoncare/codominant.html

http://www.dachiu.com/beardeddragoncare/hypomelanism.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zygosity

Those are about the only ones I have found in reference to dragons but I have been reading a ton and getting a better understanding on how genetics work.