Age and length don't match up?

[GFdragon]

So I bought a baby red phase bearded dragon on Friday from my local pet shop. He's active, alert, he's been pooping, and yes, his stool is normal. I fed him yesterday, and I'd say he eat about 15-20 small crickets. I tried to feed him later, but he didn't want to eat. Today I fed him, and he eat 3 crickets. When I offered him more he refused, and I am yet to give him his second feeding. I have been feeding him vegtables, zucchini, carrots, and green beans, although he has not touched them. I figured since they were already eating greens at the store I might try it. He has been dewormed by the pet shop, and quarantined for two weeks as well. I was told he would turn two months old today, but the problem is he seems a little small for two months. From head to tail tip he is 4 1/4 inches, and from head to tail base, he is 2 inches. To me, this seemed quite small for a two month old after reading some growth charts. He was not a small dragon compared to the rest of the clutch, in fact he was average sized compared to the rest of them. There were red phase, orange phase, and normals in the tank of 18 beardies. I chose him because I had watched him eat greens and catch a few crickets quite readily, and he (a red phase) had some of the best coloring in the tank. I would've looked for a larger one, but all the normals were larger then the red and orange phase dragons, and since I was going to breed this dragon next summer, I wanted a nicer looking one. He is in a ten gallon tank, which of course will be upgraded soon. Right now he has a sun glo fluorescent bulb, and a halogen bulb for heat, which will be changed too when we get a forty gallon. The basking spot gets to 99 degrees, and then there is a shelter on the cool side, along with his water dish and veggies. Please critique me, so I know what I'm doing wrong, also, do you think the pet shop made a mistake and the dragon is younger then they think? Lastly, at what age will I be able to tell if it's a boy or a girl? Thanks!!!

 

[Bwalter]

I got my baby at 6 weeks old and only 3" long, I know how old he was becaue I saw him 1 week old and I got him from a private breeder. I have a very slow grower beardie, just around 6 months old is when he has really started to grow. i was so worried about how small he was, they all grow at different rates, Basking spot should be around 105-110.

 

[GFdragon]

Thank you, I will try to get the temp up.

 

[gryphonsmom]

You say he was in a tank of 18 beardies!?!? What size tank was this?

Regarding your beardie's size, many pet stores do not truly know how old their babies are. The companies they order from will lie to keep from getting in trouble for the ridiculous age they sell them at.

Also, deworming at such a young age?!?!?! This is VERY bad for babies. Unless there is a SERIOUS problem, owners should wait until their dragons are about 6 months before deworming.

About his eating habits, reptiles, as well as other animals, endure something called "relocation stress". This occurs when they are moved from the location they have gotten used to, to an entirely new location with a new person, new sights, new smells, etc. Puppies and kittens will cry when left alone/at night when they are experiencing this. Beardies will display stress marks (the marks on their bellies) and sometimes will refuse food. For a baby beardies, relocation stress can last from 3 days to a week. During this time, it is best to not handle your beardie to avoid added stress. Let him get used to your voice, his surroundings, etc. Always offer food 3x a day, but do not be discouraged if he does not eat every time. This should get better over the next week. Also, make sure you are gut loading and dusting crickets. Make sure that you never offer anything to your beardie that is bigger than the space between their eyes. Doing so could lead to impaction, paralysis, and/or death.

To help with relocation stress (this also works with puppies, kittens, etc) place a clothing item that smells like you in the cage with him, but something you don't mind it getting pooped on :shock: . I will actually buy tiny stuffed animals from the pet store and put them in my laundry basket or in the bed with me for a couple of days until they smell like me and then place them in the cage. I did this for my two older ones before I went away for a week and a half and our sitter said this helped a lot. Now they snuggle them every night!

As far as husbandry, PLEASE UPGRADE ASAP!!! a 40 gal breeder will be good, and get a Zoo Med ReptiSun 10.0. 18" should be ok for a 40 gal. You can get these much cheaper at Petmountain.com than in stores and you can usually find coupons for this site online. I have also had great experience with reptilesupply as well. Keeping a dragon in a 10 gallon is not only bad b/c he doesn't have much room, but there is not much room for temperature discrepancy (i.e. a cool side and a warm side). When babies are little, they also need higher temps. Basking should be over 100, but not exceed 106 or so. Be especially careful raising temps in that tiny tank, they will heat up quickly and cook your beardie! Not sure what you're using as substrate, but PLEASE DONT USE SAND, OR OTHER PARTICLE MATTER. Paper towels are best for babies, as it makes for easy cleanup. I used paper towels until my babies were about 12" snout to tail, then I laid laminate flooring in the cages. If you choose this option, make sure you get something with texture so your baby isn't sliding around.

I believe I read that you were planning on breeding him next summer?!?!? NO dragon should be bred before at the very youngest, 18 months of age!! It is EXTREMELY unhealthy for them. Please, for the health of your dragon, do not breed him before 18 months.

If you have any other questions, I will be happy to help you! Just let me know

 

[GFdragon]

Hey, thanks so much for responding. Yes, that was a lot of beardies for the tank, although it was a 60 gallon.

Well it's good to know that 2 months may not be his actual age. The manager of the store said the breeder refused to sell the clutch until they were of thirty days of age, but maybe that was a lie too. If he is not two months, how old do you think he might be. He was 4 1/4 inches last time I measured him. Does that give you any idea of the age?

I didn't know about the deworming being so awful for baby dragons. We were going to take him to a vet soon anyway, we were just trying to find out if our dog's vet will still see herps, I know she used to.

It think the relocation stress has warn off now. He is active, lively, and when we come to the cage or talk to him he perks his head up. More recently we took him out once. He opened his mouth and ran away at first, but once he was on my hand he settled down. He then sat on my shirt for about ten minutes, and was put away once he began to get a little squirmy. We have been giving him veggies everyday, and he does pick at those. He eats about 20-5 crickets a day, it just depends on his appetite. I have been sure to dust the crickets once everyday and they are always smaller then the width between his eyes.

Also, we will upgrade as soon as we can, but we need a piece of furniture that will support the dragon's future tank. As soon as we are able to get the table or whatever it will be, we can get the bigger tank. The hot side of the tank is at 102.5, I tested it today, and the cool side is at 85, perfect for a little dragon! Oh, and I was wondering, I bathe my 4 year old dragon once a week, should I bathe him too even though he soaks in his water dish? And just to mention, the crickets were escaping under the paper towel, so now I have a bare bottom setup. He's only pooping on his half log and in the water dish, so I figured cleanliness wasn't a problem.

Just wondering, I thought males could be bred earlier then females (and it is looking like he's male), so I guess I was just curious about that. Of course, I would've never bred a female over 18 months, but we saw him head bobbing and blowing up his little beard the other day, it was kind of adorable, so out of curiosity I looked at his behind, and there were what I made out to be two very tiny lumps. I had just read The Bearded Dragon Manual, and having heard such rave reviews, I thought when it said that dragons reach sexual maturity between 12 to 15 months it was true, but maybe information has changed.

Thank you for your help, me and the newly named Shai appreciate it!

 

[gryphonsmom]

Hi Shai!
4 1/2 inches is VERY small. Dragons between 1-3 weeks that are well taken care of are this size. Your dragon could very well be 2 months, but if s/he was kept in a tank full of other dragons and perhaps was not fed enough (as many crix as they will eat in 5-8 mins 3x a day until 3months old), it is possible your baby has been malnourished. As babies, they will generally not show malnourishment as obviously as older dragons, unless it is extreme, in which case they generally don't last long .

Make sure you are feeding your baby as suggested above, and make sure the crix are gut loaded and calcium dusted 5 days a week until 3 months old. PLEASE do not leave your dragon on a bare bottomed cage!!! The glass is slippery, making it hard for the dragon to walk. If left on this, especially when babies, they learn to walk differently, and this can cause a permanent handicap as their motor skills will develop incorrectly and later, they may not be able to walk AT ALL! I have seen this, and you DO NOT want this to happen to your beardie baby. To prevent lil' crix hiding under paper towels, put your beardie in a plastic bin during feeding time. You can get a small plastic bin at Wal Mart for a couple of dollars. This can also double as their "bath".

About bathing, I would not recommend bathing a baby dragon in the traditional sense until s/he is 3 months/ 7-8 inches in length (snout to tail). Once at this age, warm water up to the dragon's chest ( NO DEEPER) is best. Buy a spray bottle (also available at wal mart for around 50 cents) and fill it with warm (bath temp) water. Place your dragon in the bin and mist him or her, about 5 sprays for 2-3 mins 2x a week. DO NOT DO THIS IN THE DRAGON'S HABITAT!!! This will raise humidity levels and make your baby sick!! Make sure the humidity for your dragon never gets above 40%. 30% is ideal, as beardies are arid lizards. I noticed you mentioned that your baby has a water bowl in it's cage to "soak" in. This is NOT a good idea at your dragon's size. S/he can very easily drown in a very shallow bowl of water. Don't ask me how they do it, but they do. Again, wait until your dragon is around 7-8 inches to leave a bowl in their cage.

PLEASE keep in mind that the first months of a dragons life are the most crucial in their future development.

Regarding breeding, just because they reach sexual maturity at 12-15 months, doesn't mean that it's a good idea to breed them. Remember, breeding in captivity is different than mating in the wild. Humans reach sexual maturity around the same time in years (12-15), but this doesn't mean it's a good idea to start "being fruitful" at this age. It's just not a good idea. It's always a good rule of thumb to wait until 18 months at the least.

If you have any other questions, just let me know. We're here for help and SO glad to be of service to our scaly babies and their slaves!