Advice on hysterectomy - another prolapse

[Grommet]

Oh, I am soooo sad to be back here posting. I'll be brief in a recap.... My partner and I adopted Grommet 1.5 years ago as a rescue who was prone to prolapse. She is seven yrs old, has had MBD (crooked toes), had improper lighting, was on a recycled newspaper substrate, but her hand was dyed red so I'm sure she spent most of her life on calcisand, improper temps, and is an overactive egg layer. After four clutches and two prolapses last year, my vet suggested giving her a Lupron shot once a month to keep her from creating more eggs. Against the advice we got here, we went for it, and although Grommet didn't lay more eggs, she was extremely lethargic for two weeks after the shot and her color was significantly darker, eating habits less. We kept her on it for 6 months and decided to take her off it.

Well, 6 months later, she's carrying eggs. Today she prolapsed in her lay bin after laying one egg and after 2 soaks in sugar water her prolapse is still inflamed. Vet was closed today, we will take her tomorrow.

I guess I'm here for moral support (I'm really shaken up about all this... she means the world to me and I've literally slaved hand over foot to keep her healthy) and advice about hysterectomies, because I'm pretty sure my options at this point are to put her down or go through the surgery.

Have any of you had an older dragon undergo a hysterectomy? your experiences?

This is Grommet's 7th prolapse (3rd with me, 4th with previous owner). Is there a risk that the sutures will not hold, that perhaps her vent is just too saggy at this point and won't firm up enough to hold insides in?

Thank you ahead of time. Please, any advice would be great.... I am so sad, worried, and desperately want to make the right decision for Grommet with her quality of life in mind.

Kailin

How old is your dragon? 7 (at least)
How long have you had your dragon? 1.5 years
What size enclosure do you have your dragon in? 55 gallon
What type substrate do you have on the bottom of your tank? slate tile
Do you use UVB lights? Yes, Repti-sun 10 tube, 2 months old, she can get 4-5 inches away
Do you use a separate basking bulb? What kind and what is the wattage? 75 watt household bulb
What are the basking temps? 95-103*F
What is the cool side temp?75-80*F
Do you take the temps with.....? Probe and temp gun.
Where exactly are you taking your basking temps? surface temp of raised basking platform (tile) with rock on it
Do you use a heat rock or heat pad? No.
What do you feed your dragon? Please be specific. Collard greens, arugula, mustards, dandelions, butternut squash, occasional pear, crickets, butterworms
How often do you feed and what time do you feed (morning, afternoon, night)? salad in tank in morning but she rarely eats it, hand fed if she doesn't. feeders in afternoon, no food within 2hrs of bedtime
Do you gutload (feed) your crickets, worms, etc? crickets yes, butterworms no.
Do you use vitamin or calcium supplements? Rep-Cal w/d3 3xwk, herptivite vits 1x/wk
Is your dragon having regular bowel movements (poops)? yes, bathtime only, 3x/wk.
Do you bath your dragon? How often? Yes; every other day.
Do you mist your dragon or offer water other than in the bath? No
Does your dragon share an enclosure with another dragon? No.
Have you gotten a vet check and fecal done? almost a year ago, she had a low count of coccidia.

 

[Grommet]

I'm heading to the vet in an hour.... I've kept Grommet in the dark this morning while I wrapped stuff up at work. She has had a water/sugar soaked hand towel under her bum while she sleeps. I'm so concerned about making these decisions. Anyone online this morning have experience with hysterectomies and older dragons? I could really use a success story right now......

Thanks, Kailin

 

[diamc]

The poor thing. Did you take her to the vet already? Could you give us an update? She sure does seem quite old for laying eggs, that must be so hard on her. Depending on what the vet says, I think giving calcium daily, even liquid calcium would be a good idea along with daily baths. Sorry I can't share any personal info regarding hysterectomies and I've been lucky enough to have a female that never became gravid. Please update us when you can.

 

[Grommet]

Thanks Diane.... I keep bouncing back here looking for topics to distract myself, this is so distressing. Unfortunately, the regular vet wasn't in today and the other doctor had an emergency surgery and couldn't meet face to face. He did call however, and said that although they were able to get Grommet's prolapse in, she pushed it out again and laid another egg He was kind enough to take Grommet to the regular vet's home tonight for close watch.... I am ever so thankful for that. They are going to keep her prolapsed overnight and see if she continues to lay by herself. She'll possibly get x-rays tomorrow to see how many eggs she has left. The vet tech I met with at the office said that the soonest Grommet could have a hysterectomy would be Wednesday (feels like light years away to me) but hopefully after a night at the vet's home, they'll find a way to fit her in tomorrow.

I had wanted to talk to the vet about making the best choices for Grommet, but now that she's being treated for the prolapse and having overnight care, my partner and I will have the surgery done. Although I wish we had gone through with the hysterectomy when we first got her, I just can't imagine my day without lil Grommers there for snuggles and glares!!.... it's worth it. The doctor I spoke with on the phone said she had enough fat stores to make it through this, which made me feel SO much better! They are going to start her on liquid calcium and call me with an estimate tomorrow.

I'm going to dream sweet dreams for her, 'cause I can't seem to think about anything else.

Kailin

 

[momtothreeboys]

Aw , Wow. I will be thinking of you guys. I have only had my dragon for about 2 months and love him already. I couldn't imagine if something like that happened to him. But I have dogs as well and my old one just went through a terrible illness this summer. She made it through so I am thinking of your little one will make it too! Good luck and please keep us updated.

Jennifer

 

[Grommet]

Thank you Jennifer... although I still haven't spoken with our vet directly, the vet tech I talked to today said that Grommet laid two more eggs today and seems to be hanging in there, even while being prolapsed. They also said she would spend the night tonight and tomorrow at my vet's home, and I am so happy I continued to bring her there. The vet is VERY busy.... even today I haven't actually spoken to her and, on previous visits, only saw glimpses of her as she goes from room to room. I was put off by that, as I often have tons of questions when I bring Grommet in, but they have totally swayed me in their favor this time. I think they have shaved a bunch off the total cost too.... I couldn't thank the tech enough when she gave me the estimate.

I can't wait to bring her home..... it's so quiet in our dining room without her!!!!!!!

Kailin

 

[diamc]

Hi Kailin, you must miss her SO badly. Sounds like they are keeping a close eye on her and taking great care of her. Sure hope she can get all straightened out very soon. That's nice that you got a reasonable estimate. Please be sure to keep us updated on her.

 

[beardie parents]

Keep us posted. We all hope she'll be o.k.

 

[Drache613]

Hello Kailin,

Well, I am happy that your vet has been so good to Grommet by keeping her at her home for a couple of days & nights. Poor girl, at least she seems to be hanging in there now. The stitching is very effective because they will suture everything up & it will heal up & grow properly too. She hopefully will not have anymore problems after that, but definitely will not lay anymore eggs.
Great they helped with the bill also. Very generous of them.


Tracie

 

[momtothreeboys]

Just wanted to say I've been thinking about you guys. How is she doing?

Jennifer

 

[Grommet]

SHE'S HOME!!!!! I am so relieved. Poor dear laid two more eggs before the surgery, still prolapsed. She had an egg break inside her at some point either before the surgery or during (when the surgeon told me over the phone you could hear the tension and stress in his voice). Too make matters even more complicated, she had scar tissue around her uterus that had attached itself to some of her other organs and completely deformed her insides. The scar tissue had even attached itself to her liver, which the vet REALLY sounded stressed out about. Needless to say, I could kick myself for not having this procedure done when I first adopted her. ARGH!!!

The surgeon also said that she had an unusual amount of fat around her liver and as Grommet gets better he wants us to keep an eye on her and they'll probably want to do more testing to make sure their isn't too much damage and/or fatty liver disease. I'm going to try to find her previous owner and find out if she gave her waxworms regularly. The vet thought it could be from her years of overactive egglaying. If not, I hate to think that it is the butterworms (she gets majority crickets, but she is easily coerced into eating salad when there are butterworms wiggling around on top).

Soooo, needless to say, she's looking really haggard right now.... super dehydrated (she looks so grumpy with her eyebrows all sunken) and no baths for thirty days! She's drinking water from a dropper and I slipped in some acidophiliz this morning. Definitely going to make a slurry this afternoon.... my first time. YIKES! I have bee pollen from my two rescues I adopted last month, so I'll mix some of that in for sure.

I'm giving her two shots a day, Metacam for 7 days and Claforan for 10 days. She goes back next Tuesday to have her vent stitches taken out and in 30 days for her belly stitches.

I could go on and on, but I should probably get headed to work... I sooo wish I could stay home! On a positive note, her color is riveting!! Super bright yellow with tinges of orange I've never seen!!! She gets a black beard and tail occasionally and is pretty lethargic, but over all, I think she's doing great! she's such a trooper.... I think she's happy to be home.....

Kailin

 

[momtothreeboys]

Yay! What great news. I sure hope she recovers quickly. Sounds like you found a great vet as well. Good luck and keep us updated!

Jennifer

 

[Drache613]

Hello Kailin,

It sounds like Grommet pulled through the surgery poor thing. Wow it sounds like she had extensive damage & scar tissue inside of her. She was unable to lay eggs very well because of the scar tissue blocking everything. You had no way of knowing what was going on inside of her when you got her though.
If she layed too many eggs & retained some here & there that can cause liver damage yes. If she absorbed some here & there that is alot of cholesterol that her body had to break down & process from the yolks.
There are things that can help cleanse & detox the liver to help it break down fats more efficiently. You can ask him about lactulose that is pretty effective. There is also a supplement called Serrapeptase, which is dried silkworm enzyme that helps in liver function too. Milk thistle has liver cleansing properties too that have been showing some promise in animals, too.

She probably feels so much better & that is great her colors are so much more vibrant too! Poor girl, no baths for 30 days huh? Definitely give her nutritious slurries daily which she should willingly take. Did the vet give you any critical care for her? If not, you could ask about that, as it would help her regain some weight right now. I wanted to add that the butterworms are not fatty so they would not be the cause of fatty liver disease so don't worry about that.

I am glad to hear she is home with you now. Keep us posted on her.

Tracie

 

[Grommet]

Thank you Tracy! We've had a turn for the worse I'm afraid, and I am so thankful to have questions to take to the vet tomorrow. While I was at work today, my partner saw Grommet straining to poo (she passed a little urate.... there's definitely no food product to pass), probably due to irritation (I''m sure it doesn't feel good to have sutures in your bum, argh!!). When i got home, I took her out to try and feed her some slurry that I made (yuck) and when i put her into my lap she simultaniously began straining and spurting blood from her belly stitches (I'd say 3mL worth... maybe a little more). I immediately called the vet and arrived there 5 minutes before they closed (thank god). The surgeon was in, and he said the belly sutures looked good, but she was having a hard time clotting because of the fatty liver disease (it makes her blood more watery?). She also managed to get one of her bum sutures loose.

They gave me the option to take her home and bring her in the morning, but I told them that I know Grommet, and if she has strained twice in one day, she will try again. I couldn't stand having her prolapse while still stitched on one side. I asked the vet to take her home.

They gave her fluids while I was there (thank god, she looked so gaunt even after the H2O that she drank from the syringe). and weighed her... she had lost very little weight since I first brought her in, which the vet said was good.

I've never driven so fast in my life..... and can't believe I was able to make it home before having a good cry.

I am thankful to know that if Grommet is able to pull through this we have a few options to try in the fatty liver disease battle. I would love to have her here for another 5 years. She's just got to make it through the next week!!!!

Kailin

 

[Drache613]

Hello Kailin,

Oh poor Grommett! I am sorry to hear that she is having a hard time. I am glad you got to the vet so quickly right before they closed. She lost a decent amount of blood, too. That could not of felt very good straining like that.
Well, if her liver is having a bit of a hard time, her blood might not be filtering out as well & that could affect her ability to clot as well as she needs to. It affects the chemistry of the blood, yes.
That is good they gave her more fluids, too. AT least the vet took her home with her just in case. I hope she doesn't tear anymore stitches out, poor girl.
I am pulling for her!! It sounds like she is in good hands right now. Keep us posted on her.

Tracie