ADV? Could my baby bearded dragon have this? Updated :(

[GodzillaMax]

We have had two baby bearded dragons now for a couple of months. Both came from the pet store (separate pet stores). They have separate enclosures but everything is the same for both (same temp of about 100 on the hot side and 75-80 on the cool side). We feed them crickets, dubia's, sometimes butternut squash and dandelion greens.

One beardie (that I was worried about several weeks ago but is now fine) has quadrupled in size. The other dragon who has been fine is now starting to almost waste away. I'm extremely concerned. Over the past week, the smaller one has gone from eating around 5-8 crickets per day or several crickets and dubias to only eating 4 small dubias a couple of days ago and just 2 small dubias yesterday, and nothing at all today. Our larger guy eats like 20 crickets in one feeding.

We were concerned so we took our small one to a vet today. The vet didn't perform any tests at all and sent us home after sitting in the waiting room for over an hour and a half and a nice size bill, without a real diagnosis but a bunch of syringes of stuff to try. He said he would treat him for coccidia. I asked how he could be certain without a stool sample or tests and I never got an answer.

We were able to get a vitamin supplement in our beardie by basically having him force fed. Other than that though, all he wants to do is drink.

In looking through the net, I came across an article about Atadenovirus. Is that a possibility? I'm scared of that because although our dragons aren't with each other, their enclosures are right beside one another. Is our guy just a super slow grower or does this seem like it's a problem? He goes through phases now of long periods of sleep and then he'll run around for a few seconds and then act like it wears him out so he starts falling asleep again. Right now he's looking at me across the room which is encouraging but he just now did a weird thing like he was trying to hack something up. He opened his mouth wide and shook his head. Then he did it again???

He has absolutely no interest at all in crickets or dubias right now. I'm hoping we can get him to eat another dubia but since he was force fed today, maybe he won't be hungry until tomorrow.

Worried

 

[Drache613]

Hello,

I am sorry your baby is having some trouble.
The vet didn't do a fecal on him at all, but gave you medications to treat him?
Can you review your tank setup with us, like his UVB lighting, supplementation, etc?
Are you using a digital probe thermometer?
Since he is not eating, I would recommend starting to give chicken or turkey baby food, mixed with squash or sweet potato baby food. You can use a plastic dropper or syringe to drip the food onto the end of his nose. He should hopefully lick some of that off of his nose. You can try getting some bee pollen to help with appetite also.
Since he is not feeling well, I would keep the tank around 80 or so at night for help with boosting his immune system.
Let us know how he is doing.

Tracie

 

[CooperDragon]

I agree it's odd that a fecal test wasn't done before prescribing meds. I would hold off on medication which may tax his system and try to strengthen him with water and baby food as Tracie suggested. Focus on getting his weight stabilized and his energy level up and then go from there. Having more info about his enclosure will be helpful too.

 

[GodzillaMax]

That's exactly what we did last night and today. We didn't give him any of the medication at all because we didn't feel comfortable medicating him when I read that the meds could kill off the bad bacteria in his system. Instead, we went and talked with a friend who is very knowledgeable about reptiles and Bearded Dragons and he also suggested we just give him the liquid food mix/vitamin but not to give him any meds.

I should have mentioned... We have the reptisun 10 UVB (NOT a coil but the long bulb) and also have a UVA bulb as well for heat. Temps are 100 on the hot side and 75-80 on the cool side. The terrarium is a 20 gallon. He has a basking log and he drinks water every night (a LOT of water... meaning he'll take 30-40 laps of water when I let him soak). He's always been all about water since we got him. When he was eating, he would eat dusted crickets and dubia's. We never gave him anything larger than the space between his eyes. He has never been interested in veggies but we gut load our insects.

The other set up is exactly the same and like I said, one dragon is completely happy, thriving and huge. The other is just not growing very well. He started out doing well for the first month and a half but the last two weeks, he slowed significantly with his eating. He's just so small. I'm hoping that like you all said if we keep giving him some food and keeping him hydrated, he'll eventually start to perk up.

I was just reading last night about the ADV and saw a portion where it said it's common in pet store dragons and that dragons who have it won't grow as well and it's like a "wasting" disease. It scared me and I read that there are tests for it, but I don't know what all that entails. I'm definitely worried about a virus or something like that being the issue.

 

[Drache613]

Hello,

Definitely continue to do the assisted feeding, it can really help them out when they don't have an appetite. Hopefully that will help improve his appetite & with some weight gain.
How is he doing today? If you want to test, you can go to my site to sign up for more information, etc.
My site is:

www.thepats.info


Tracie

 

[GodzillaMax]

Thanks Tracie. He is very unresponsive todady. Spent most of the day with his eyes closed and is weakening by the hour I'm so sad. We've had him for 2 months and everything was going great until this past week. Nothing changed, so I really think it's some type of virus or something hereditary. We're just sad because he was my son's birthday present and we were so excited to see him watching us and now watching him decline as we try so hard to make him better is heartbreaking. He is such a sweet guy too... he always wants to be held and loved his bath times. He is barely swallowing the food and I feel like we're torturing him by force feeding him.

 

[AHBD]

Poor little guy....can you post a pic of him ? And the exact size crickets or dubias he was eating ? Just want to rule out the possibility that one of the bugs was a on the large side, causing him impaction. Even if not, try some raw, unpasteurized honey mixed with a wee bit of warm water for him. Some dragons will readily lick it off their noses and then even take it from the syringe. Once he [ hopefully ] starts eating that, mix in some other types of protein [ baby food chicken ] or the supplement from the vet. What exactly did the vet give you ?

 

[Drache613]

Hello,

I am sorry he is having such a hard time, it is so difficult to watch them go through such
hardships.
Definitely keep trying & just carefully syringe feed him so that he doesn't aspirate anything. Does he not willingly take any food off of the end of the syringe or his nose or your finger? I agree, he might really like the unpasteurized honey also. That would help his immune system too.
Are you keeping him warmer overnight, correct?
Do post some pictures if you can so we can see him.

Tracie

 

[GodzillaMax]

Sigh... well he is still alive, but still declining.

Today, he barely moved. He walked around a little but stays on the cool side. After researching, we read that the most important thing is to make sure they are hydrated before force feeding because force feeding can be detrimental if they're dehydrated. Since he is no longer drinking or eating on his own, we bought some pedialyte and mixed it 1:1 with water. My husband gave him some through the syringe but when he set him back in his enclosure, he acted like he can't move his legs... like a jerking motion when he was trying to walk. This JUST started a few minutes ago. He usually acts strange when he is given something by syringe (last night he went limp for a few seconds right afterwards and scared us to death.. then he just opened his eyes and started moving) so I'm hoping that is a temporary thing. I know it sounds like MBD with the jerky motion but that literally just started. Maybe he is getting that now since he hasn't had any dusted protein in several days????

We were given a number of a great vet but were given the number on Friday and can't speak with him until tomorrow and it may be too late

I'm not sure how to post a picture of him on here?

The last meals he had were dubia's about 4 or 5 days ago and they were very very small (smaller than the space between his eyes). We don't have any dubias right now so I can't post a pic of them since we bought crickets today for the other beardie.

When they are so small, it is just so difficult, but we keep trying. At the same time though, I don't want to feel like I'm torturing him by keeping him alive. Gosh, if there were just a way to give him something to make him feel better. My husband is so much braver than I am... I feel like everything I do could potentially kill the little guy so I'm afraid to do anything at all. My husband has been the one administering the fluids and being the brave one. I keep glancing across the room to see if he's alive and then my heart drops every time I think he's not. Sometimes it's hard to tell because the breathing is so slow. He is lying down now, with his head down. Most of the day he was lying down but had his head up, with his eyes closed.

Thank you for the suggestions and for the support. It means a lot.

 

[GodzillaMax]

Godzilla became too weak and went peacefully to dragon heaven last night shortly after my last post on here.

I'm so sad. I wish we would have been able to get with a GOOD vet over the weekend, but I don't know if the outcome would have been any different as we tried to keep him hydrated and I don't know what else we could have done. He did have poo's so I don't believe the issue was an impaction. I wanted to purchase some Reptaid as I read reviews about it, but shipping would have taken longer than we could wait and local stores do not carry it.

I forgot to mention earlier more reasons of why I was so upset with that vet (other than him prescribing meds WITHOUT a stool sample!). When we were in the vet's office the other day he asked us about the basking temp and we said about 100 to 105. He said that was way too hot and that we should lower it. :?: Huh?! This is a baby who requires higher temps on the basking side! When he asked us what he was eating and we said crickets and dubias, he acted like he didn't know what a dubia was... then he asked how many and I said, well the most he's eaten in one day was about 12. The vet looked at me and said, "12 is way too many crickets." Huh?! If he is being fed 3 times a day and eats around 3-4 each time, how is 12 small crickets too much? We're talking small crickets that fit between the space between his eyes. Another thing is that the vet had given us injectable electrolyte solution and told me to inject the poor little guy but there was no way in the world I was going to do that. I've never injected a dragon with a needle and am definitely NOT going to do it unless I know what the heck I'm doing. He never showed me how to do it either! Just gave me a bag of syringes, solution and needles. Seriously?! Then he looks at me and said, "well, it's going to be about $100 and you only have a 50/50 chance that he'll survive." Gee, thanks for the vote of confidence. No feeling of empathy whatsoever. So many red flags. The good thing is that we have the number of a good herp vet now. What is bad is that it's too late for our little guy since he went downhill so fast and unfortunately on a weekend.

 

[AHBD]

Aw, I'm so sorry to hear the poor little one is gone. I agree that he must have had some type of illness unseen, possibly ADV. It's obvious how much you cared for him and I also agree that the vet really didn't know how to treat a baby dragon, and even if he did there may not have been a good outcome if he had ADV. All my sympathy to you and your family.

 

[GodzillaMax]

Thanks so much AHBD. I will never forget watching his cute little face when he would get his baths. The little guy adored bath time and would actually put his head under water to drink! My 4 year old daughter got a kick out of watching him. He was the little guy who thought he was a big guy. He was super sweet and loved to be held, but would puff his beard out and head bob if he saw our other beardie through the glass. Such a cutie. I can't stop shedding tears for him