Acceptable coccidia levels?

[icelore]

Hey all, just some opinions and info about treating for coccidia.

I have a pretty awesome vet that I've been seeing for years. I get 15% off office visits, most treatment, and some meds as long as I bring my animals in regularly for wellness checks. They are even awesome enough to send me a little postcard and remind me who is due in.

Anyway, the program requires reptiles to go in 2ce yearly, and that's fine. The wellness check just consists of weighing, general body check, and a fecal. I took Ridley in today for his checkup, and the regular reptile vet I usually see wasn't there. :/ Instead, I saw another woman on staff who's only been there for a few months but who is also supposed to be a reptile/avian specialist. And here's where I need opinions...

Ridley's body condition is fine, he's in great shape, good mood, eating and pooping fine, etc. His fecal showed coccidia though - it always has as far as I know, and I was under the impression that low levels were normal. My regular vet has never had an issue with it. This new woman said that any load was unacceptable and we should start treatment right away. She also did a fecal and said she saw flagellates... Ok, how many I asked? According to her, "just a few", so I asked her to repeat the fecal smear, and though she tried twice, she couldn'tt find any. She was really going on about flagellates and coccidia together is terrible and how he needed treatment RIGHT NOW though. I offered to bring in another sample in a month for them to compare counts, or bring him in earlier if he showed any abnormal behavior/symptoms. She was really adamant that I start him on Flagyl (sounded something like that) and some kind of Sulfa drug asap, but she also asked why he had a white/clear scale on the top of his head too, so I'm not really sure if I trust her.

Thoughts and opinions? Should I wait and just do another fecal later like I thought? What are acceptable coccidia loads in a dragon? If it matters, he's just over a year old, did go into semi-brumation this year, is 19in. long, and 383g and gaining now that he's awake.

TYIA!

 

[Taterbug]

Nope, that vet sounds suspect. A good vet would know about that lens on the paretial eye.

If it were my dragon I would request the counts, an wait on treatment since the dragon is otherwise healthy. Can you have your usual vet review the records (they should include the counts for the parasites and should identify the flagellates). Rechecking the fecal in a month may also be a wise decision to see if the loads go up or not. My vet also does not recommend treating low loads of coccidia.

 

[timisimaginary]

if you trust your regular vet, i would wait on him. medications can be rough and unnecessary treatment can do more harm than good. if you have any concerns, give extra probiotics like bene-bac or acidohpiliz to balance out the gut flora, or consider using some reptaid.

i am still curious about what is generally considered an acceptable coccidia level though.

 

[Drache613]

Hello,

It is just about impossible to get coccidia levels down to zero, but very low levels are acceptable.
I would definitely get the coccidia counts before treating.
Usually on the readings/levels 2+ or under is low & anything 3-4+ is considered high & most of the time should be treated.
I completely agree, low levels really shouldn't be treated it can sometimes do more harm than good.

Tracie

 

[icelore]

Thanks for the concrete info Tracie! His levels are usually 1, but this time were a 2 (there was a chart that read in pp/mg or something that corresponded to the levels). My regular vet called me (from vacation no less - I guess someone in the office called and told him I was upset XD) and said that even though it's a 2 now, since he just came out of brumnation, that could be the cause of the increase. With him not eating much, and his whole system being slow, they can build up a bit, but now that he's awake, eating, and zooming around, that his body should reestablish itself and the levels should go back to 1. As for the flagellates, he said it's common to be able to find them once in a while in fresh smears. As long as there aren't an abundance, that's normal too.

I'm going to bring in another fecal in 4-6 weeks as well as lodge a complaint about that doctor. I know she's new and all, but I don't want the business possibly getting a bad reputation by employing such an unknowledgeable, as well as belligerent, doctor.

I think a lot people freak out to think of "parasites" in any amount being in their dragon. The amount of stuff living on and in us is a shocker if you really think about it. I bet if we all looked at human poo there'd be stuff living in there too!

 

[jarich]

If she is young and a new vet, its not surprising. Fresh out of school, they have all the fear of what parasites can do, without the experience to see that lizards can carry on fine with some of them their whole lives. Just take a parasitology course and see if you dont do the same! There are some crazy, crazy parasites out there; enough to freak anyone out. :lol: She is probably just playing it safe by insisting on the treatment. I would simply mention to your regular doctor when he/she gets back that the new girl was a little pushy on it so that they know to work on her bedside manner in the future. She is obviously thorough at least, so getting the personal side of things down is the next step.

 

[Drache613]

Hello,

Absolutely, that level is really nothing to be concerned about right now. Combined with just coming out of brumation I think that is great. Once he is more active, eating, etc they should pass through his system & the levels will become normalized again.
Sometimes too little bacteria in the gut is harmful as we all, including reptiles, need a certain amount of bacteria/parasites, etc for help with digestion. As long as they don't get too numerous in levels he will be fine.
I am happy that they are not pushing an immediate treatment. The new vet is not as experienced so she will go by the book more than the other vet being more cautious.
We are humans do have a decent amount of bacteria in us as well. Of course, we don't ever like to think about that.


Tracie