A newbie after advice; My BD Set-up. Pics included

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Hi all,

After wanting a pet reptile since I was 7, for my 24th birthday in June I was finally given one as a present. This is so far the set up I have for Chuck Norris, my 3 and a half month old Bearded Dragon.

Here are some pictures, Ill have to put them in this way as its the only way I can think of.

SNC00068-1.jpg


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It's a 4x2x2ft viv that I heat using a diurnal 600w pulse stat and what I believe is a 250w ceramic heater (its about that, I threw out the box). For u.v. and lighting I use a 10% Exo Terra UV 42 inch Tube powered by an Arcadia Starter Unit which is plugged in to a timer that is set to give approximately 14 hours of light coinciding with the natural day/night pattern of the stat. The sensor for the stat is mounted on the window sill behind the curtain so as not to be interfered with by any lights that are on in the room. Day time temps are set to 40-43 degrees Celsius at the hot end and approx 30 degrees Celsius at the cool end. At night I drop these down to about 25-30 degrees Celsius at the hot end and the cool end never gets below room temp (obviously).

Chuck is fed 2-3 times a day, depending on what he tolerates and how much he wants with locusts and crickets and he gets the odd wax worm treat if he is good (sounds like hes my child doesnt it). These are all dusted with Repton supplement prior to feeding. In his viv there is always varied fruit and veg (again lightly dusted with Repton), I try not to feed him the same veg stuff too many days in a row, and a small shallow bowl of water, which I have seen him drink out of and I know the humidity is not affected. These are both re filled with fresh each morning, and are kept at the cool end of the viv.

Now I know that the water dish and calci-sand substrate are a controversial issue, based on personal experience and opinion. But the bloke in the pet shop I bought Chuck from was recommended by other pet shops in the area and people I know who also kept reptiles. He also breeds and this was how he cared for his Beardies and he maintained he has had no problems at all with impaction. I have also watched Chuck feed and he is very accurate when lunging, and seeing as sand is found in their natural habitat I dont see the harm in having it in the viv.

Basically as I am new to keeping Beardies I'm asking for any advice and constructive criticisms about the set up I have for Chuck. I feel that with the research I have done that the set up is adequate. But, basically, I want it to be perfect for him.

I eagerly await your input
 

Claudiusx

BD.org Sicko
Staff member
Moderator
Well you asked for it didn't you? Bad bad sand! lol.

Just because his beardie didn't get impacted doesn't mean your beardie won't. Calci-sand is absolutley horrible. Try pouring a little water on it and see what happens... it pretty much turns to stone... thats what will happen in your beardies stomach. If just 1 out of 100 beardies got impacted from being on calci sand would you let yours be on it too? Are you willing to take the risk of hurting your helpless dragon? With sand (and other loose substrates) not only is it an impaction risk, but its also a sponge for bacteria which can make your dragon sick, its expensive to replace, which you should to regularly since it gets dirty fast and filled with bacteria, and plus it can cause respitory problems from the dust it creates when a beardie runs around on it. A much better thing to do would be tile, repti carpet, paper towels, even NON-adhesive shelf liner. All these options are better for your beardie and they will save you a fortune as compared to buying sand. In my experience, the only reason sand is in a tank is because the owner wants it in there, not because its whats best for the beardie.

In the wild beardies don't really live on sand. They live on hard clay-like compacted soil which pretty much is like rock.

Also, did you ever think your petstore people were telling you that sand is good for them because its really expensive and they want your business, not whats best for your beardie?

I don't use that uvb bulb but I heard it is ok for beardies.

A much better calcium suplement would be Rep-Cal Phosphorous-free CALCIUM with VIT.D3
You should dust with this once per day.

You shouldn't feed him feeders that are larger then the space between his eyes.

As i recommend to all new owners, read the care sheets and articles on this site.
http://www.beardeddragon.org/articles/

You can learn a lot of info from the care sheets and if you have any more questions be sure to post them.

-Brandon
 
Hi i live in beardy country we have plenty of wild bearded dragons around and i can tell you all the ground is not hard pack down like rock. look at pictures below, This is outside in my yard no its not soil its what the ground around this area is covered in. I've been bush walking and the dirt/sand is the same out there as it is here in my yard. In some other parts of australia where they are also found may be on hard packed ground but there not in my town. And to say every wild dragon dies of impaction is just wrong i want to see proof of this do they actually autopsy every wild dragon they find. Ever heard of animals eatting roughage to help in digestion, dogs do it,birds,elephants,rodents,even dinosaurs when they were alive. If they were actually eatting the sand non stop well then its bad but licking at it here and there will not do any damage it passes out when they poo if its very fine sand. To mention my sand is hard packed down like rock so my beardie can only lick at the very fine grains if there is any and it passes out when she poos. If sand is eatting bad why not paper cause if the paper moves a beardy will take a bite out of it. My dog ate paper once took her a week to poo it out and when she did she was crook for a day or 2. I also believe a sorten amount of bacteria is good for them as it helps in building there imune system up. Why do you think doctors say let your kids play in mud,dirt etc to build there imune systems up. Too say that sand has abestos in it is also wrong as there not allowed to use abestos anymore in nothing. I think you are all contradicting yourselfs you say that beardies live on hard packed clay in the wild,then you say that wild beardies die of impaction. If they live on hard packed clay none of them would die of impaction then as there is no loose sand. Also to say that you should feed only prey size that fits betweeen there eyes is also wrong i don't see wild baby beardies with rulers runing around measuring there prey saying nar thats too big,nar thats to small, hell yeah thats the prefect size. My beardie is 5 months old 8 inches long weighs 51 grams head space of 1 and half cm and she is knocking down 2cm crickets with ease. Bearded dragons have teeth for a reason, they should chew there food not swallow it whole with one bite. But i'll let people make up there own mind, I know what Safira loves and is happy with i'm not changing her to something that she dislikes eg tiles she wouldn't move,eat and was starting to get bloated cause she wouldn't poo. I had her on tiles for a week and she wasn't showing signs of getting any better so i switch back to what she loves. Here are the pictures.
BILD0047.jpg

BILD0049.jpg

I do agree that calcium sand is a bad choice if you want to use sand as a substrate i'll use very fine childrens play sand. Also i would get rid of that ceramic heat emitter and replace it with a white basking bulb bearded dragons love there enclosures bright.
 

Calvin546

Member
Well, if I were you. I would just get some tile, carpet, paper towel, ect. You are risking your beardies life with sand, because the threat isn't just impaction. It gathers alot of bacteria too. The other alternatives are easier to clean and are cheaper. You've got nothing to lose with the other substrates, so why not change it? Also change the UVB bulb. You will need a Repti Sun 10.0 fluorescent bulb. Repti Glo's give eye problems and have low UVB output. If you want whats best for your beardie, change the substrate and the light.
 

Buggsy

Gray-bearded Member
I know its a bit of a deviation, but Dragonowner1, that was a bit of a rude reply. I havent been to Az, and i dont know what the soil is like, but im sure there are alot of beardies in the wild with impaction. People on this forum never say all beardies in the wild die of impaction, in sure they have many other things to worry about, such as predators, but it has been proven in captivity that eating sand causes impaction.

And yes, bacteria are in our environment constantly, and as a microbiologist i agree that a certain basal level of exposure is a good thing, but exposure to high ammount of bacteria (such as would be in the sand) is just irrisponsible. Would you let your child play in a dirty toilet because exposure to bacteria is good? No matter how much you pick bits of poop out, the liquid expelled can never be thourgholy cleaned, thus lots of bacteria.

DragonOwner1":6be6d said:
Too say that sand has abestos in it is also wrong as there not allowed to use abestos anymore in nothing
It has been found is washed kids play sand, which is what is recommended as sand, should you wish to use it, not all sand.

DragonOwner1":6be6d said:
Also to say that you should feed only prey size that fits betweeen there eyes is also wrong
Your correct, wild beardies often eat prey that is too large for them, and they die. Simple. Again this has been proven whilst in captivity.

Again sorry for the deviation, but i flt there were some rude comments that should be addressed.

Back to Mr noris lol! The UVB you mentioned, im sure its the ReptiGlo kind, which is bad, you either want the ReptiSUn, or if your in the UK a better bulb is the Arcadia 12%. Both are cheaper on the net! Also, the ceramic heat emmiter you have is excellent for night times (if it gets below 65f) but during the day time, a bright while bulb is needed. The UV emissions can be quite harsh so a bright white bulb protects their eyes.

Also, the stat, im not too familiar with it, but normaly with these thermostats that regulate the bulbs, the sensor should be inside the cage. That way it detects the temp in the cage an alters the light to the desired temp.

It sounds like you are well on your way to being an excellent slave! and we would love to see pictured of chuck!
 

Buggsy

Gray-bearded Member
Woops, just looked at the links you posted! He looks very hansome!

Just one extra note, the dial type thermometre you have can be very inaccurite. I had one, and i didnt really believe how much by. I bought a cheap thermometer gun (godsend) and the dial was 18degrees below what the temp was! i was baking poor Gizmo!

Any who, either a thermometer gun, or a digital one with a long probe is much better. Th temps are very important for beardies and they ned to be spot on!

Buggsy
 

Hopefulresearch

Juvie Member
I know what Safira loves and is happy with i'm not changing her to something that she dislikes eg tiles she wouldn't move,eat and was starting to get bloated cause she wouldn't poo. I had her on tiles for a week and she wasn't showing signs of getting any better so i switch back to what she loves
You make it sound like tile is bad now. The real reason why she didn't like the tile is because she was used to being on the sand. Also, if Aussy sand isn't packed down what's with a few Australian members showing pics of that. THey say that more beardies live their then the other said area. On the sand issue. If you don't want our safe advice, then stop telling other new people sand is good. Impaction is proven to be caused by sand, loose substrate, and too big of food. So, in the long run. Play it safe, why risk your pet?

*edit* I found the link about the person who lives in Australia . http://www.freewebs.com/kirbydragons/naturalsoils.htm
 
Your correct, wild beardies often eat prey that is too large for them, and they die. Simple. Again this has been proven whilst in captivity.
There you go another point to say that babies in wild die cause of eatting large prey. if this is correct there shouldn't be no more beardies in the wild then as the babies have died which means none grow to be adults. So when adults die theres none left a bit stupid to say things like that. No captivity light or heat would match that of the aussie sun so thats why more captivity beardies die of impaction then the wild ones.Like i said i want to see proof of wild beardies dieing of impaction if you can't prove that they do stop saying they do. Bearded dragons have teeth for a reason so what your saying is that they should shallow there prey with one bite. I can tell you when i was feeding Safira prey size inbetween her eyes she didn't even really chew cricket in mouth and shallow and its gone. I'm not trying to be rude i'm just pointing out my opinion. Zoos here in australia keep beardies,monitors,geckos,spiders,snakes all on natural substrate that of where there found in the wild and have no problems. You cannot match captivity with wild beardies,So many people are changing things to worse eg overseas making silkback beardies that is so unnatural they look nothing like a beardy scaless and spikeless,so why not change the enviroment for beardies too see where i'm getting at. Its unnatural for a beardie to sleep with a teddy or wraped up in a towel. A beardy cannot do what comes natural to it if kept of tiles they can't dig and make burrows to cool down or make there own hides. It has gone all human made now,No such thing as using natural logs,rocks etc for hides its all pack up and run to the nearest pet store. Sorry to me it doesn't seem right you moswell keep it on glass with no substrate and fake logs,rocks etc and have a unhappy dragon. I wasn't going to leave my dragon on tiles for any longer as she was showing signs of being bloated she wouldn't go to the toilet wouldn't move,wouldn't eat. So what your saying is i should of left her on tiles and let her die cause if i left her on tiles for any longer she would died cause she refused to poo. Like i said paper can be eaten,i've heard of beardies ripping there toe nails completely off on reptile carpet, and tiles are nothing to natural substrate for beardies. I hear you all clipping your beardies toe nails, I never had to do this with my beardie as she has natural things in her enclosure which wears down her nails. Also if you read the who uses sand thread you will see i said husbandry also plays a part in impaction. If your husbandry is off then yes your beardy will suffer, So if your beardy gets impacted check your husbandry it may well be your husbandry at fault not the sand. I've talked to breeders of bearded dragons who have breed for 50 years they also agree with this. Also just cause one part of australia has hard packed sand like that link you posted doesn't mean its like that all over australia. Also photos can be desiving there could be cracks here but then move 4-5 foot away it could be tottally diferent.
 

Buggsy

Gray-bearded Member
Again your being quite rude there. We cannot match their natural habitat, correct, but we can do our best. In the wild these animals reach ages of 3-5 years, when in captivity they live happily to 10 years as i said there are many factors contributing to this, including impaction issues, but also parasites and predators. we just do our best to keep them happy and healthy, If you would like to shorten your beardies life thats fine, the only advice we give is tried and tested by us, and if you really are unwilling to lost to any of it i suggest you are in the wrong place.

People come here to learn, and although you offer many talking points, these can be misconstrewed and confusing to somebody looking to get started or looking for help. You offer your experiences, thats fine, i am all for a healthy debate as many on here are, but when someone starts a thread asking for help please try and help them, not start and argument but calling us stupid. I personally always advise any choice an owner makes is there own choice and should be made after their own research, i do not push my opinions on others.

If you really want to debate please start your own thread, as i don't think this conversation is helping Chuck noris out much, do you?
 

Claudiusx

BD.org Sicko
Staff member
Moderator
Well said bugsy! :lurk: :notworthy:

Keep us updated iron, tell us how things are going! :D
 

ironmonkeyofksw

Member
Original Poster
i can see that no one is ever going to agree on the substrate issue (and sort of knew it before i asked) i personally know a couple of people who keep their BD on play sand or repti-sand and have had no problems. and i can see the points from boths sides of the arguement, at the moment im now changing the thermostat to a dimmer stat, and getting hold of a light emmiting heat source. thatll be sorted by tomorrow. thats the first bit.

im also going to do a few costal walks to see if i can find some interesting rocks for a better basking spot which i believe the best way to clean is bleach bath, well rinse and bake isnt it?? what temp do i bake a rock at??? and ive already put in another piece of grape vine root as an extra thing to climb on. more fun and more exercise for chuck!!

the flourecant bulb will have to wait for nextpay day next month sadly, as after having a look in to it the repti sun stuff is the way to go it seems.

again, and to be perfectly honest, im still not sure. with out wanting to cause offence to anyone or ignore advice given i may stick with it. chuck is still on sand and has been for several weeks now. he shows no sign of impaction that i can see or feel (and i do regularly check), is active, good appetite (damn near greedy), bright eyed and bushy tailed (so to speak). i am ditching the calci sand tho in favour of a sand alternative. naturally at the first sign of any problems he is going straight to the vet and the sand is coming out.
 
To dragon1 ok well i would love for you to join me and a person who specialized in reptiles who i had the privilege of meeting and getting in contact with in a conversation. he also lives in az. there are just some facts and things you are pointing to that does not agree with what is actuall and proven facts. so please if do not mind please pm me so i can arrange this.
 

Claudiusx

BD.org Sicko
Staff member
Moderator
Soak in a water and bleach bath for a couple hours. Then rinse it off until you smell no more bleach. Then you put it in the oven at 250 for an hour or so.

I understand how you can be convinced to keep your beardie on sand, its just for me, its not worth the risk. Even if only one out of every 100 dragons housed on sand got impacted I wouldn't house my beardie on it just because there is a chance and I don't want to take the risk. You obviously want to take that risk and even though I don't agree with it I hope you and your dragon the best of luck. My opinion still stands that sand is bad and has nothing positive to give but I still hope your beardie stays healthy and everything works out for you and your beardie.

-Brandon
 

ironmonkeyofksw

Member
Original Poster
my opinion may change, its just as it stands at the moment. and no two pieces of literature are the same which causes the greatest confusion. im aiming for a naturalistic enclosure, so are there any sorts of tiles that would be able to give a more natural look rather than looking like a bathoom wall?

it has been mentioned about baked earth flooring for peoples vivs, does anyone know anything about how that works??

thank you your input and your support.
 

Claudiusx

BD.org Sicko
Staff member
Moderator
Yes if you go to lowes you can pick out tiles from a wide variety and they will even custom cut them for you plus its really inexpensive. It cost me $7 to get a permanent substrate for my tank. Imagine how much money you save by doing this instead of having to keep on buying sand.

Im not even sure what the sun baked thing you said is so maybe someone else can help you.

-Brandon.
 
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