Egg binding/Quack vet/I need help!

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Egg binding/Quack vet/I need help!

Postby Rayn3bow09 » Mon Jun 01, 2020 1:42 pm

I could really use some advice, my poor girl is not doing so well. I don't even know where to start. This whole episode has been a nightmare including the trip to the vet. I will try to get as much info on here as possible.. so much has happened so I will start from the beginning.
Firstly ill go ahead and include her basic care info bc I know that's the first thing everyone asks about. She's got a 40gal. Tank.. 90s on hot side, 80s on cool side reptisun 10.0 uvb. Reptile carpet. We have a dubia colony.. staple greens include collard, mustard, turnip. Dusted with calcium and d3. I thought of myself as a pretty knowledgeable beardie owner.. My beautiful red heads name is Eevee. She is just about 2 years old, and I have had her since she was a baby. I'll go ahead and get into the mess we are in ...
A few weeks ago, I wake up one morning and turn Eevees lights on to find her looking a bit rough.. it was like she lost half her bodyweight overnight, and looked dehydrated with wrinkles in her back and sunken eyes. I knew something was very wrong! She's always been nice n plump, gets weekly baths and drinks plenty. I noticed she was starting to shed in a couple spots, but that has never affected her much. I gave her some lunch and a nice long soak..little did I know this was only the beginning. The next day, I noticed her poop was runny/watery..and at the end of the urates there was a small amount of blood! I got straight on Google and my research lead me to the possibility of parasites. It made sense..the rapid weightless..the blood..I surely wasn't expecting what was about to happen next.. that evening I walk by her tank and right in the middle of her floor was..what looked to me like a baby carrot at first glance.. further examination confirmed my little girl had become a woman! It was an egg!(infertile..never mated) A pretty strange looking egg too.. it was a little mishapen.. and mostly yellow with white patches. After a night of internet research I learned laying one egg isn't the usual routine..and she was telling me she needed somewhere to lay her clutch. Being scared of sand substrate.. I bought coconut husk substrate for her nesting box... Put some in her tank a good amount.. enough to make an incline with a tunnel started for her. Also made one in a separate container just in case. For the next 10 days, not much progress was made, and my amazement at my baby beardies first time laying eggs turned to worry. She refused to go in her nest.. never showed any nesting behavior.. but still layed one egg at a time every day or every other day.. I tried switching to sand.. but it made no difference. After the first couple days she stopped eating! Just wanted nothing to do with food, while her belly got bigger, she started looking worse. Now she was starving herself! I couldn't keep her hydrated no matter what, and she looked emaciated. I contacted a friend who is a vet tech at an exotic vet for some help.. she told me to try warm baths 30mins 2-3 times a day.. and not to worry so much..I would look bad too after giving birth everyday and still being full of babies. So we tried to make it through... I didn't have much choice.. the Corona virus was in full swing.. we were quarantined and unemployed.. so I continued doing everything I could to get her through this. Some info on the eggs..(btw I will include pictures after I post this..if I can Figure out how..) after the first 10 days we had a total of 7 eggs. A few looked halfway normal, but the last few were worrying.. one day there was a regular sized egg and something that looked like a tiny banana!! Figured it was just an undeveloped egg?.. next was just weird..the egg looked fine..except for the long stringy yellow "tail" connected to it. My best guess was leaked out yolk. Like the egg was squeezed enough to leak out yolk.. I'm not sure of that or if the yolk is supposed to be rubbery like what was hanging onto the egg..that was all I could come up with. I also realized the "tiny banana" from before was the same color/texture as the tail. I'm pretty sure it wasnt an undeveloped egg, but part of the tail that fell off and came out a day earlier. Finally there was a oversized peanut shaped egg that I'm sure was just two stuck together. ..then.. no more eggs... Also no improvement in Eevees health. Hopefully describing the eggs helps in deciding what's going on. I'm sorry how long this is becoming!! Some info on her behavior through the middle of everything. Each day was different...some days she would be pretty active..glass surfing.. begging to come out and explore..knowing I can't deny her lil face.. others she was so lethargic she barely moved. There was another week that passed after the last egg when I finally scraped and saved enough for a visit to the vet. This was the worst experience I have had with a veterinarian. She talked to me like complete crap, made me feel like a horrible owner. Told me if I properly cared for her she would never produce eggs in the first place..and so much more I just couldn't believe. If only Eevee was given proper care.. I wouldn't mind so much being treated badly.. but unfortunately that wasn't the case. She handled her so roughly, it made me cringe.. she felt for eggs, and didn't feel any so said she would need to do an x-ray. Claimed the x-ray showed no eggs..but she did have a little poo..so she would just treat her for constipation. I asked why her belly was so bloated if it wasn't even a big amount of poo and she couldn't give me an answer. Was sent homewith some prescription grade food powder to force feed her. Not long after making it home, she had a bowel movement in her bath and not an hour later layed a huge double egg!! So here's where we are now..im just hopeless and have no idea where to go from here. I refuse to take her back to that woman who treated myself and my beardie so badly and failed to do her job. Should I even be force feeding if she does have eggs? She's so big in the belly I don't know if there is room for anything else. I'm going to go ahead and post this, I will add new info as it comes to me if I got anything. Sorry about the length.
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Re: Egg binding/Quack vet/I need help!

Postby Rayn3bow09 » Mon Jun 01, 2020 1:54 pm

Need help posting photos..

Also forgot to mention that lately her belly seems bloated more on the left side.. she lays leaning to the right to keep pressure off the left.. alsobecoming weak in back left leg.. looks to me what mbd would look like.. but no mention of mbd from the vet after x-rays.. not sure if it could be due to pressure if the eggs..?
Last edited by Rayn3bow09 on Mon Jun 01, 2020 2:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Egg binding/Quack vet/I need help!

Postby LuaBlua » Mon Jun 01, 2020 2:07 pm

When writing out a post, click on the "XIMG" above the text box, and add new images to the library. Then add them to the post, using the "XIMG" again
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Re: Egg binding/Quack vet/I need help!

Postby Rayn3bow09 » Mon Jun 01, 2020 2:13 pm

[Click image to enlarge]
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Re: Egg binding/Quack vet/I need help!

Postby Rayn3bow09 » Mon Jun 01, 2020 2:17 pm

[Click image to enlarge]



[Click image to enlarge]
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Re: Egg binding/Quack vet/I need help!

Postby Rayn3bow09 » Mon Jun 01, 2020 2:19 pm

This is the egg after coming home from vet..well eggs bc it came apart when pulled

[Click image to enlarge]
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Re: Egg binding/Quack vet/I need help!

Postby AHBD » Tue Jun 02, 2020 5:19 am

Hi there, sorry to hear about all this stress with Evee and then the bad vet experience. Please post some pics of Evee to show her body condition. Thankfully she IS passing the eggs and none look ruptured [ which could cause peritonitis ] , just deformed. Post pics of her tank as well. BTW, how much of the supplements are you giving her ?
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Re: Egg binding/Quack vet/I need help!

Postby Rayn3bow09 » Thu Jun 04, 2020 2:50 pm

AHBD wrote:Hi there, sorry to hear about all this stress with Evee and then the bad vet experience. Please post some pics of Evee to show her body condition. Thankfully she IS passing the eggs and none look ruptured [ which could cause peritonitis ] , just deformed. Post pics of her tank as well. BTW, how much of the supplements are you giving her ?


A bit if an update: I contacted the veterinarian who owns the vet hospital I went to.. I informed him of our bad experience and her incorrect diagnosis.. he went ahead and prescribed her some antibiotics (just in case there was any that ruptured) and dewormer to b safe as well. The force feeding is going well, and I can already see an improvement in her appearance and attitude! Still not all the way outta the woods though.. still bloated and unable to use back left leg. I still have nesting sand on one side of her tank .. I'm thinking about removing it all together.. for one the sand freaks me out.. and she's not even digging.. any opinions on the sand? (Lemme say just so nobody gives me the sand impaction speech that I have always used carpet.. I only added sand once I found out she was gravid..).She hasn't layed since the vet visit, and when she does lay, she pops them out anywhere as if she were pooping..
As for the supplements.. before this.. I gave calcium once daily either on roaches or greens.. then once weekly I added Herptivite with the calcium. Just a dusting.. before I started force feeding but after she stopped eating I added a sprinkle of calcium to water I was syringe feeding her.. now that I have the powdered food to feed her.. doc told me to add a pinch to that as well.. I'll post some pics..
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Re: Egg binding/Quack vet/I need help!

Postby Rayn3bow09 » Thu Jun 04, 2020 4:37 pm

[Click image to enlarge]
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[Click image to enlarge]

[Click image to enlarge]
....these r before she got sick
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Re: Egg binding/Quack vet/I need help!

Postby Rayn3bow09 » Thu Jun 04, 2020 4:41 pm

And here r some pics I took today..

[Click image to enlarge]


[Click image to enlarge]


Tried to get a top and side view.. her belly is still pretty big more on the left side and she doesn't wanna put weight on it.. she looks so pitiful!! My poor girl
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Re: Egg binding/Quack vet/I need help!

Postby Drache613 » Fri Jun 05, 2020 1:03 am

Hello,

Wow, I am very sorry to hear about such an awful & humiliating appointment with the vet.
There is just excuse for that behavior, whatsoever. They can have perfect care & still lay
infertile eggs.....it happens all of the time.
It could be genetics, calcium levels possibly, it's hard to know. Or, sometimes an egg that
is irregularly shaped may block the passage making it harder to pass through. There are a
lot of scenarios that can happen.
Did the new vet give you a liquid calcium to give to her? Seeing the difference on one side
to the other, she could have more eggs on that side that are developing or being developed.
She is eating though right now? Can she support her weight any better?
I agree with putting her on an antibiotic in case of any yolk to prevent infection. A round of
dewormer is ok, too.

Tracie
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Re: Egg binding/Quack vet/I need help!

Postby Rayn3bow09 » Fri Jun 05, 2020 5:15 pm

Drache613 wrote:Hello,

Wow, I am very sorry to hear about such an awful & humiliating appointment with the vet.
There is just excuse for that behavior, whatsoever. They can have perfect care & still lay
infertile eggs.....it happens all of the time.
It could be genetics, calcium levels possibly, it's hard to know. Or, sometimes an egg that
is irregularly shaped may block the passage making it harder to pass through. There are a
lot of scenarios that can happen.
Did the new vet give you a liquid calcium to give to her? Seeing the difference on one side
to the other, she could have more eggs on that side that are developing or being developed.
She is eating though right now? Can she support her weight any better?
I agree with putting her on an antibiotic in case of any yolk to prevent infection. A round of
dewormer is ok, too.

Tracie



I agree the vet was way out of line.. she forsure knocked me down a few pegs on my confidence as a beardie owner.. I'm certainly glad it turned out that she was in the wrong, but I just wish the money I spent on her coulda went toward the proper care and treatment.. some people just aren't cut out for their chosen profession. But everything happens for a reason and it led us to the Dr who will be treating her from now on and we are finally on the right track!

He did also give dewormer..but no liquid calcium. Do u think I should invest in some instead of the powder?
Still not much improvement on bearing weight on back left leg. However she is moving it to readjust herself rather than dragging. Also not eating on her own. Once I give her a little squirt inside her lip of the syringe food she will start to lap it up, so the force-feeding isn't completely forceful.. she also will stare down roaches.. I try to offer one before force feeding..but I can see it in her eyes it's like she's telling me it looks so good mom.. but my belly hurts too bad!!

Another question I had.. is it normal for them the develop/lay eggs from one side at a time? After research and learning about follicular stasis.. I'm worried that could be the cause as well. The vet said the x-ray didn't show more eggs..but I read follicular r way harder to see on x-ray..or with that vet being who she is maybe she said no eggs just to be technical.. not mentioning that she does have follicles formed.. it would make sense if the follicles were stuck and still growing..the bloated side.. the lack of eggs being layed and the pain she's in. If that's the case.. I don't know what to do. I'm supposed to see the new vet in a week if she doesn't improve..but if she doesn't make it.. I don't know how I'm not gonna blame myself firstly..I will never blindly trust someone like that again.. or ever doubt myself/my instincts again!!
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Re: Egg binding/Quack vet/I need help!

Postby Drache613 » Sat Jun 06, 2020 1:18 am

Hello,

How is your girl doing?
Well, in my opinion, regardless of whether or not your care or anyone else's care for that
matter was good or bad, there is no excuse for treating someone like that, at all! The fact
that you had her there for a checkup, etc was all that mattered & that you cared enough to
try & get a problem taken care of. I hate that the vet was that disrespectful & that he didn't
handle your girl properly, either.
You should probably consider getting some liquid calcium for her, since that is better absorbed
& taken up more quickly into the system than the powder. The powder is good but she is most
likely a little low in reserves right now.
Ok, that is understandable she isn't interested in eating on her own, but hopefully soon. She can
have eggs ready to lay, as well as follicles forming. The eggs were not real calcified which does
make them harder to see. I still don't excuse the vet's arrogance & disrespect! The new vet
sounds fine, so that's a good idea to go back in a week or so if you aren't seeing improvement.
I hope her leg is feeling better, she deserves a break!

Tracie
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Re: Egg binding/Quack vet/I need help!

Postby Rayn3bow09 » Tue Jun 09, 2020 10:11 am

Drache613 wrote:Hello,

How is your girl doing?
Well, in my opinion, regardless of whether or not your care or anyone else's care for that
matter was good or bad, there is no excuse for treating someone like that, at all! The fact
that you had her there for a checkup, etc was all that mattered & that you cared enough to
try & get a problem taken care of. I hate that the vet was that disrespectful & that he didn't
handle your girl properly, either.
You should probably consider getting some liquid calcium for her, since that is better absorbed
& taken up more quickly into the system than the powder. The powder is good but she is most
likely a little low in reserves right now.
Ok, that is understandable she isn't interested in eating on her own, but hopefully soon. She can
have eggs ready to lay, as well as follicles forming. The eggs were not real calcified which does
make them harder to see. I still don't excuse the vet's arrogance & disrespect! The new vet
sounds fine, so that's a good idea to go back in a week or so if you aren't seeing improvement.
I hope her leg is feeling better, she deserves a break!

Tracie


Hello again! I have a few updated concerns.. eevee still isn't eating on her own unfortunately.. but she is having poos more frequently about every 2 days.. they r really runny.. but I am feeding her a liquid goo as well as plenty of baths and drinks daily.. so pretty much the came coming out as it was going in.. no more eggs thankfully.. she's a tad more active.. but still dragging leg. I've noticed some new symptoms that have me worried she might be developing a uri.. most concerning..this morning while holding her with my hand over her back I could feel pops as she breathed through her back. I knew to look out for noises with breathing when it came to uri but I always thought to listen at her nose..not sure if I was supposed to be feeling for it on her back. I'm sure it's something else I was doing wrong... Other things I'm noticing is she stands tall with her head tilted up while basking.. no gaping though.. she also has been doing a weird snapping/smacking thing with her mouth every so often while force feeding.. idk if it's bc she's not happy about it.. or trying to take real bites of the syringe.. it's just odd. Her saliva seems really stringy inside her mouth too.. no drooling.. just sticks and strings from top to bottom jaw when she opens her mouth. I'm worried the egg issue turned into uri.. idk how the vet wouldn't see it on x-ray if so.. but who knows with that nightmare of a lady.. she is on antibiotics.. I'm not sure if they r the correct ones to treat uri.. sulfamethoxazole (aka bactrim)? Idk if I'm overly paranoid or should call the new vet.. or if something is up if the antibiotics will clear it up too? Thanks for everything!!
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Re: Egg binding/Quack vet/I need help!

Postby AHBD » Wed Jun 10, 2020 9:35 am

Poor little Evee, she cant seem to catch a break ! You should cut out the baths, this can cause stress which is detrimental for any sick beardie and may increase the risk of a URI because of possible aspiration and/or constant temp. change. She is getting all the hydration she needs , possibly even a bit much, so she does not need the baths. It's also possible that she may have aspirated some of the food or meds. Just keep her temps. good, keep it about 80 overnight and be very careful with the syringe feeding to see that she doesn't aspirate anything. See how she does and then contact the vet if she struggles to breathe or doesn't improve.
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