was off colour - Peppa (changed title)

What are the indicators ?

My experience with breeding is limited to skinks (who give birth to live young) , and not dragons who produce clutches of eggs. So I'm not entirely sure what to look for.


Her tummy just before she went back to bed , yes as usual - very relaxed , but woke up right away and climbed down off her log to go to sleep in the dark under her log (in the dark :

Apart from being a wee bit tubby ,I can't feel any lumpiness that I think would indicate slugs being developed , but I have read a gravid dragon will do smaller poos because everything they eat goes to the eggs / slugs.


Recent pooing record
30 Nov big wet poo (not surprising as silkworms are moist and so if anything she's very well hydrated) , interval before this was 10 days (not uncommon for Peppa)
7 Dec , very sloppy watery poo , interval 7 days .
10 Dec , sloppy , small poo , interval 3 days .
13 Dec , small poo , mostly urates , interval 3 days .
15 Dec , urates only , interval 2 days , now 8 days since last big poo.
today upchucked some worms (about 1/4 the BSFL and 2 of squashed but dead whole mealworms, no sign of the silkworm) , she's never upchucked before.

Normal daily feed is a large silkworm + 6 to 8 medium gutloaded crickets + a shredded buk choi leaf (when she's in the mood). She's not big on salad. Some days she enjoys a salad , mostly she's ignores it so I gutload the crickets and make sure to add a silkworm (who has been eating fresh mulberry leaves) so she gets the salad in disguise.
Ran out of crickets yesterday so she got a feed of 10 BSLF + 4 mealworms (appetisers) + 1 lg silks
Upchucked some of the mealworms and BSFL today. So I checked her and can't feel any solid masses in her tummy (?) , just normal anatomy.

Temperatures hottest 37 degC. Cool zone 26 degC.

So I've only given her a small meal ( 8 mealworm pupae , she likes these ) and some olive oil ( JIC she's impacted).
Was going to give her a couple of small (1.5" silkworms ) as well but the last couple of days she's been less interested in food and if she's impacted I don't want to add to this.
I have superworms on standby , but these are only used as treats.

She's been doing a lot of chin and nose and side of face rubbing for the last couple of weeks , yes she still has a blocked right nostril , but as far as I can tell no URI , and I think it's bothering her. Last nostril shed didn't clear this nostril. So it's been plugged for a few months now.

She's not BBing .
She's normally very lazy , loves to spend hours next to me on the lounge (on her old red t-shirt) or snuggling on my chest , so I don't think she's lethargic , just being her usually lazy lizardy self , she has been climbing about and thermoregulating OK .

I'm probably over protective and just set off by that recent unfortunate thread about a dragon and another I saw on the aussie BD board.

They usually have a pretty fierce appetite, they MAY produce smaller + more frequent poos but there can be other causes for that. Are you sure she's getting enough basking time to digest her food ? Any chance she ate something while free roaming to cause her to be sick ?


Other signs of being gravid are restlessness near laying time + scratching around for a laying site and also they may not eat for a few days right before laying. You can't usually feel infertile eggs, fertile ones sometimes [ and may even look like marbles under the skin ] I hope Peppa's going to be O.K, if she becomes very lethargic + B.B. you would want to get her in to a vet ASAP.

Update : presented me with a poo , solids ( ) and some wet dark stuff .
This is what I she deposited :

Urates look nice and white , there's some nice formed not rock hard poo and lots of stained wet stuff (this I coming from the mashed / chewed mulberry leaves in her daily silkworm ( I think ) as well as the liquid component = silkworms have a good moisture content as do buk choi greens).

Can definitely feel a lump that's moved , so maybe some more olive oil today to help shift it .

Her appetite is somewhat depressed , lately (the last few days) . So I guess she's not gravid . Something else going on ( most likely overdone it on the silkworms ? ) or perhaps picked up a GIT paracitic infection from the crickets ( ?? ).



She's not been interested in going down onto the floor lately, I put her there and she heads to her tank or to me (asking to be picked up ==> spending lots of time in the late afternoon on the chair next to me or on me) , therefore unlikely to have eaten something she shouldn't have off the floor.
She's accustomed to a small daily feed of crickets + a large silkworm and an offering buk choi greens , so I don't think it's do her any harm to only have soft food (maybe a some pupae or medium silkworms or no solids for a few more days as I have no crickets until my next bulk order arrives tomorrow or Wednesday.

She just climbed onto her hubbahut to bask and is standing / basking there, so she's not just laying there , which I think is a good sign.

Note - been very wet stormy weather here ( large tropical cyclone in the Gulf of Carpentaria and a powerful land cyclone over my state = so very low pressure , very dull , very windy (gales) and very stormy and rainy ( torrential rain periods . Sydney only 90 min south coped a caning (was hit by a few supercells that did lots of damage that brought down huge trees all over the place and resulted in flash flooding and damaged roofs ) , so maybe she's also picking up on the climatic conditions ( note Fluffy and the two BTs have been hunkering down the last week or so too , and not many of my regular wild skinks have been about).

Lights are on a 16 hour photoperiod.

BUT :: just saw her bring up a little bit of what she ate yesterday (?) …. still no BB though .

Update :: 4 hours later , she's still in her warm zone and basking , been mostly wide awake and alert and looking around watch our comings and goings and probably wondering what happened to her daily feeding .

I had a snack just then and she looked up from a brief nap as soon as she heard the plastic on the bar of RockyRoad crackling , and I'd swear she was accusingly asking "and what about me ?"

Been tempted to try her on a medium silkworm to get a little bit of nutrition into her maybe (and maybe it'll stay down and maybe even make up some GrubPie or VeggieBurger or a 1:4 mix of the two to give her.
But figure she's so spoilt and well fed a couple or 3 days without a food wont harm her and might even help her upset stomach settle.
If she's still off colour on Thursday I'll add some probiotics (non-dairy) to the weekly shopping list and maybe some baby food.

This might be my cue to cut back on the live insects to a every other day rather than daily and upscale the salad to daily.

Just 0.4ml olive oil and 0.4ml Manuka honey today …. these are both nice tasting and will help get rid of the nasty sick taste in her mouth and the honey will help give some energy .

No more upchucks , been very alert this evening.

Bumped up her overnight heat to 28-30 degC , hoping this will help her immune system and metabolism .

Was still wide awake when my wife went to bed at 11pm ( 1 hour after her lights time off ) , now I've only got the TV and laptop on and sound turned down to very quiet and a short 15 min snuggle seems to have settled her enough for her to go to sleep . (Not uncommon for Peppa to stay awake for a while after her lights go out , sometimes still awake at 1am.)

Well I sure hope that it Isn't Infertile eggs. Cisco Seemed to get them Twice, The first time she managed to Reabsorb the eggs It seemed. And the Second time, Well she Most likely had eggs (Constant digging for a few weeks, smaller Poops, restlessness for a week), but then within a few weeks She got very lethargic and Off of food and a constant black beard, and our Vets were out of town for a few weeks, Then we had to go out of town as well and There weren't any vets near, She didn't make it. I still am not sure What caused it but my best guess was Dystocia. ?

But Basing on what You're saying, It is Slightly possible That it could be Infertile eggs, But It also could be a buildup of poo (If she was going off poos for a while) Or she may be Trying to Brumate(?). I'm not sure, I would suggest Keep monitoring her closely and if she seems to show any signs of illness Then Get her Checked up by a vet.

Hopefully she doesn't have anything wrong.

I was up til about 4am - watching videos and monitoring Peppa (expecting the worse) and frequently checking on her.

Peppa and I were both very sleepy this morning , wouldn't respond to my wife patting her at 10am (was still where I left her when I retired last night) , woke when I picked her up , so she's just had a long snuggle on my chest (which she seemed to really enjoy).

Tried our luck with a medium-large silkworm and half a dozen mealworm beatles (she loves them) managed to get her eat them (handfed). Hoping she keeps them down.
Basking on her log now.

Cool zone 30 degC today.
Warm zone 36 degC and basking spot 38 degC. She seems to be enjoying the warmth (her face and beard and throat colours are bright).

As usual - I have HerpaBoost and CrittaCare Reptile handy in case I need them.

I don't have much if any faith in the two local reptile vets (at Mt Hutton (10min drive) & Mt Sugarloaf (40 min drive), so taking Peppa to see them will be an act of desperate last resort as I think they are both incompetent. I'd rather have the vet come to see her insitu than take her for a drive to them and then have to wait in busy noisy surgery waiting room.

Have updated my auto dial numbers for three local "reptile vets" , Mt Hutton, Mt. Sugarloaf and the new one at Edgeworth as well as the local Regional Vet EMERGENCY service (at Broadmeadow), in case I need them.

For now it's a wait and observe situation that I hope will resolve itself . My wife and I are worried about her because we've lost pet lizards after they upchucked meals in the past ( Lucky the water skink, then Rex who went very BB shortly before dying, and a good friend of ours lost her female bearded dragon soon after chucking up too after she took her to the vet at Mt Hutton who forced the food out of her stomach and gave her an anima and the pumped water into her GIT to try to unblock her , her dragon was dead 2 hr later).
No BB on Peppa.

UPDATE : 12 hrs later , she's managed to keep the silkworm and mealworm beatles down.
No more poo day, maybe tomorrow, if none by tomorrow afternoon, more olive oil for her.

Been quite alert to goings on around her today , and spent most of the day either basking on top her hubbahut as close as she can get to the 26W UVB200 (nose about 3" away from it when she sits up as high as she can go) or while napping ontop of her hubbahut, keeps turning to give me the stare every so often. She's been glowing (her contentment colours) , I'd rather see that than her sporting a BB.

More manuka honey by mouth by syringe at 5pm , been licking her lips ever since (residue taste is nice).

8:30pm and Peppa is wide awake, very alert, and showing so signs of putting herself to bed (might be expecting a snuggle (she is usually having a snuggle at this time before she goes back to bask for an hour before lights go out).

All positive signs so far today , hoping for more improvement tomorrow.

My options for vets are :

Mt Hutton Animal Hospital (10 min drive , very small one man practice , impossible to get a convenient park but close enough to use a taxi there and back if need be)

Mt Sugarloaf Animal Hospital (West Wallsend is a 50 min drive , inconvenient and too far for emergencies, and parking can be hard to get convenient to their front or back doors.
They operated on and lost Puff so I've lost my faith in their competency.

Argenton Animal Hospital ( 30 min drive , not exactly convenient , and no available on street parking ,but told they have parking at the back of the converted house for a few cars). Never used them.

Newcastle Mobile Vet Service (is new and according to their site they handle exotics and birds and reptiles, they will come to the home and also provide an animal ambulance service). I like the idea of the vet coming to the house to assess and start minor treatments , less stress for the reptile and for me.
I'll contact them tomorrow and speak to them to assess their skill and competency levels wrt bearded dragons , bluetongues and water skinks. And ask around to get a feel for how good they are.

The bright beard and keeping food down is encouraging. Hopefully she's OK now. Perhaps if the mobile vet has an ultrasound machine they can check her for infertile eggs.

I can't vouch for the qualifications of the person who wrote this article, but it sounds like an x-ray can also rule in/out infertile eggs.

https://www.beardeddraco.com/egg-binding-in-bearded-dragons/

She's much more active and alert today moving changing positions , thermoregulating, chin/nose rubbing (lots) , no sign of any upchucks and can't see any poo either but I've not got her out or checked behind or under her hubbahut or grotto yet (3:30pm).
Was watching the wife sort the Xmas/NewYear/AusDay goodies (chips, nibbles, cheeses, lollies, fizzy drinks and golden circle juices and nectars, and tins of pineapple & fruit salad, crackers etc. Loves the sound of rustling shopping bags (we order online and get these delivered).

Cat naps here and there.

Still no BB, been watching me and was giving my son the stare when he dropped in to leave the grandson's Xmas presents , and been watch me sorting the beetles from the pupae, and pupae from the mealworms , and cleaning the silkworms and feeding them fresh mulberry leaves.

CooperDragon":2dm2txk1 said:

The bright beard and keeping food down is encouraging. Hopefully she's OK now. Perhaps if the mobile vet has an ultrasound machine they can check her for infertile eggs.

Click to expand...

I'll have to ask them about that when / if I call them. Pretty sure it's standard for vets these days to have portable handheld dopler imaging ultra sound devices in their kit .

Think another dose of olive oil and another dose of manuka honey by mouth when I give her another silkworm and maybe a few beetles or pupae ( crickets late , maybe here tomorrow ?).

Update :
No upchucking .

No poo . ( not unusual for Peppa , her average interval has been about 6 - 8 days between poos ).

Quite alert and content looking all afternoon.
Put her back in her tank in her warm zone after her feed, apart from a few changes in position she chose to stay there and was wide awake until her lights timed off, at which stage she promptly closed hers eyes and dosed off …. think she was expecting a long snuggle as usual before bed.

Just moved her to the cool zone , so she can have cool down before I go to bed, snuggled into me when I picked her up but I put her back right away.

No upchucks (yesterday's food stayed down , very relieved), no poo yet today.
Her color is nice , no BBing.
Felt her tummy …. no obviously unusual lumps or bumps today.

Found her awake and sitting up and alert at brekky , but too lazy to get out of her bed.
But made it known she knew I was there and she wanted to come out ( for a snuggle ).

Very interested in what is going on while I was giving her a long snuggle (10am to 1pm , she was expecially interested in watching my son wrapping presents for his son, and in watching what I was doing while I was sorting though the BSFL (removing dead lavae, emply pupae shells) and while I was sorting silkworms (removing their poos , giving them fresh mulberry leaves to munch).

Update : she made very fast work or 10 MedSml crickets ( she's definitely missed her crickets , her favourate insect ) and made fast work a large silkworm .
This was 3 hours ago, more or less straight back into tank to bask and make a start on digesting the food.
No olive oil or honey given yet today.

I wish she'd shed out those nostril plugs , I applied small droplet of manuka honey to her right (blocked) nostril last night while she was asleep, in case she has an infection in there.

Plan is a small feed of crickets today (they arrived first thing this morning) and a silkworm + another dose of olive oil & and other dose of manuka honey (by mouth).
Going to continue being very light on the solids for another few days , just in case.

Her color is nice , no BBing.
Felt her tummy …. no obviously unusual lumps or bumps today.

Found her awake and sitting up and alert at brekky , was up on top her hubbahit and basking by 11am..

Update : she made very fast work or 8 MedSml crickets and made fast work a large silkworm .
A dose of honey given with the crickets. And droplet on the blocked nostril which was quickly sucked in … right nostril no longer completely blocked.

I noticed a few moments of eye bulging going on this afternoon …. shed imminent.

No upchucks - today's and yesterday's food stayed down , no poo (4 days).


She seems to be back pretty much to normal "activity" levels and behaviors. Still keeping the solids to a minimum for now , waiting to see what the next poo is like and for any "developments".

Sounds like she's OK. Quite a relief. I hope she continues to do well.

Continuing with a small meal of medium gutloaded crickets + a large silkworm each day for now + some manuka honey by mouth with the (mostly liquid meal).

Still no more upchucking, and she seems back to normal. Still waiting on another poo (but nothing unusual for Peppa to go 6 - 8 days between poos). Color is bright and she looks happy as usual.

She's been asserting herself each afternoon too if I haven't fed her or gotten her out by about 3pm she's giving me the stare and patting the front of her tank to get my attention.