ALLEGED PROBLEMS WITH REPTISUN T5HO 10%UVB TUBES (IN 2017)

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ALLEGED PROBLEMS WITH REPTISUN T5HO 10%UVB TUBES (IN 2017)

Postby kingofnobbys » Sat Aug 26, 2017 10:44 pm

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See claims made here viewtopic.php?f=34&t=236080 , the implications are that pet reptiles will not be receiving healthy levels of UVA & UVB FLUX and keepers will be unaware they have a problem.

Note Ms Baines (whos name was dropped as defacto proof) has NOT revised her latest paper http://www.reptilesmagazine.com/An-In-D ... -Reptiles/ , she makes no mention of this issue there or at http://www.uvguide.co.uk/ to highlight any issues with these tubes.

If they are keeping the (FB) group closed & the data "confidential" this implies to me that they are not so sure their data is any good and they are unwilling to subject it to peer review.

FB IS NOT in anyway A PEER REVIEWED SOURCE OR PEER REFEREED or even a remotely RELIABLE place to get good scientific data obtained under laboratory / controlled conditions. Peoples' opinions if unsubstantiated by publically available testable peer reviewed data are just their OPINIONS.


The other possibility is a batch of T5HO 5% tubes were incorrectly labelled as T5HO 10% tubes and the manufacturer will have become aware of this (if they are good as I suspect they are , samples will have been routinely tested as part of their TQC system and the out of spec products isolated and thoroughly tested and never making it out of their warehouse if they fail to meet specifications) and steps taken to rectify the issue. Anyone actually communicated these alleged findings to them ?

Feel free to present your UVI vs distance and microW UVB/sq.cm vs distance data if you have any that supports the allegations made so we can all see them .

Also feel welcome to share unsupportive solarmeter readings vs distance and the manufactured date on the tube/s , and in use age of the tube/s tested if they are currently in service in your vivs.

My situation :
Have a solarmeter microW UVB meter.
I don't have any REPTISUN T5HO tubes , I opted for Arcadia T5HO 12%UVB tubes for entirely different reasons - these are waiting on my building new 4x2x2 vivs for my dragons..
I use Exo Terra 26W UVB150 cfb for my skinks and currently use 26W UVB200 cfb for my dragons.
I will continue recommending Zoo Med , Exo Terra & Arcadia made tubes , cfbs and MVBs til I see proof.
Last edited by kingofnobbys on Sat Aug 26, 2017 11:26 pm, edited 5 times in total.
CBDs: Cleopatra & Caesar born 28Jan19.
Puff (RIP 10Dec15),Rex (RIP 16Mar17),Toothless (RIP 26Nov17).Peppa (RIP 22Mar19).
EBTSs : George & Mildred (born july 2010).
EWSs : Fluffy rescued injured by lawnwacker14Nov17, Gutzy 27Sep19.
Lucky - cat attack rescue, SI RIP 21Jul2010.
Wriggles - injured rescued, boss lizard, over 8 yrs old, RIP 2Feb16. .
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Re: ALLEGED PROBLEMS WITH REPTISUN T5HO 10%UVB TUBES (IN 201

Postby kyleena29 » Sat Aug 26, 2017 11:02 pm

Fran has received a new batch of bulbs to test so she should be posting results soon. If anyone is interested in joining the group it is VERY easy. Just ask for invite through here.
https://www.facebook.com/groups/ReptileLighting/
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Re: ALLEGED PROBLEMS WITH REPTISUN T5HO 10%UVB TUBES (IN 201

Postby Gormagon » Sun Aug 27, 2017 6:05 am

I for one do not join closed groups of this type. It allows to many controls that stifle opposing views, therefore making any information basically useless. If you don't agree with the moderators views you become an x-member.
The wonderful world of bearded dragons is a magical land of mystery, enchantment, cuddles, love and, worry! A mysterious realm where things always seem to change in an instant and, the moment you think you have it all figured out, the rules change! You think you own your dragon, guess again. You are now a slave!!!
RIP Peaches 10-1-18 Forever in my Heart
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Re: ALLEGED PROBLEMS WITH REPTISUN T5HO 10%UVB TUBES (IN 201

Postby kingofnobbys » Sun Aug 27, 2017 7:15 am

Gormagon wrote:I for one do not join closed groups of this type. It allows to many controls that stifle opposing views, therefore making any information basically useless. If you don't agree with the moderators views you become an x-member.


This is true and a compelling reason to doubt the voracity of the claims made by such private FB groups as well as the reasons I've already mentioned.

Please prove me wrong by posting copies of the latest relevant test data here or at the UK UVguide site.
CBDs: Cleopatra & Caesar born 28Jan19.
Puff (RIP 10Dec15),Rex (RIP 16Mar17),Toothless (RIP 26Nov17).Peppa (RIP 22Mar19).
EBTSs : George & Mildred (born july 2010).
EWSs : Fluffy rescued injured by lawnwacker14Nov17, Gutzy 27Sep19.
Lucky - cat attack rescue, SI RIP 21Jul2010.
Wriggles - injured rescued, boss lizard, over 8 yrs old, RIP 2Feb16. .
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Re: ALLEGED PROBLEMS WITH REPTISUN T5HO 10%UVB TUBES (IN 201

Postby EllenD » Sun Aug 27, 2017 7:24 am

Why would we all, those of us who have used Reptisun UVB tubes for years with nothing but wonderful results, and more importantly, those of us who have told literally THOUSANDS OF NEW MEMBERS who have had sick beardies due to using UVB lights that are actually horrible to go out and buy Reptisun UVB tubes immediately, why would we or anyone else just suddenly start bashing them and telling people to stop using them because of a "Closed Facebook Group"? This is ridiculous.

Reptisun UVB tubes are in my experience, and the experience of thousands of other experienced bearded dragon owners, one of the best lines of UVB lights available for bearded dragons. Period. Do very good brands put out a bad batch of lights once in a while? Yes, though this isn't even proven. Is it possible that a great brand could accidentally mislabel a batch of 5.0 tubes as 10.0 tubes? Sure. Again, not proven. The bottom line is that no one should come onto a very respected bearded dragon forum, one who up until literally two days ago endorsed Reptisun UVB tubes to the point that most senior members and moderators use them and have used them for a long time, and suddenly one day start correcting posts written by other experienced members, and start writing "unfortunately Reptisun are not good UVB tubes, buy only Arcadia", based on absolutely ZERO EVIDENCE OR PROOF. There's a lot of people who have some explaining to do to the hundreds of new members who have gone out and purchased a Reptisun UVB tube based on direct recommendation of some of the very people who are suddenly bashing them. And theses people were endorsing them as recently as a two to three days ago. If you want to endorse a different UVB light company great, go ahead, present their testing results and endorse them, but don't make up false claims about one of the best UVB light companies out there on a forum where many moderators endorse these lights daily to people with sick beardies, especially before testing is even done.
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Re: ALLEGED PROBLEMS WITH REPTISUN T5HO 10%UVB TUBES (IN 201

Postby EllenD » Sun Aug 27, 2017 7:32 am

And by the way, I've personally been using specifically the Reptisun 10.0 T5 High-Output UVB tubes for years in my bearded dragon enclosures, and I literally just ordered another 3 yesterday on Amazon.com because there is an excellent price right now of $24.99 for a 36" tube. And I'll be happy to post photos of my 10 month old and my 4 month old, who have both been under these UVB tubes since a month old, and my year old rescue who has been under one for the last 4 months, versus having no UVB light up until I got him. I'll be happy to post before and after photos of him. And my prior boy who was under one for 90% of his life, and who lived to be almost 13 years old. None of them have ever even been sick with an infection of any type. In fact, the only illness any of them have ever had was the prior male had parasites once. They are all huge in length and weight, active and mobile, and bone density is perfect.

If you show me data that says that all of a sudden these tubes are bad then fine, but it's embarrassing that I'm even getting excited about false claims created by a closed Facebook group, lol. I wasn't aware at first that this was the source of the rumors, but now that I know I'm all good. I don't think Facebook requires official, controlled scientific testing before a closed group posts their opinions. 😱
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Re: ALLEGED PROBLEMS WITH REPTISUN T5HO 10%UVB TUBES (IN 201

Postby Savora » Sun Aug 27, 2017 7:35 am

EllenD wrote:Why would we all, those of us who have used Reptisun UVB tubes for years with nothing but wonderful results, and more importantly, those of us who have told literally THOUSANDS OF NEW MEMBERS who have had sick beardies due to using UVB lights that are actually horrible to go out and buy Reptisun UVB tubes immediately, why would we or anyone else just suddenly start bashing them and telling people to stop using them because of a "Closed Facebook Group"? This is ridiculous.

Reptisun UVB tubes are in my experience, and the experience of thousands of other experienced bearded dragon owners, one of the best lines of UVB lights available for bearded dragons. Period. Do very good brands put out a bad batch of lights once in a while? Yes, though this isn't even proven. Is it possible that a great brand could accidentally mislabel a batch of 5.0 tubes as 10.0 tubes? Sure. Again, not proven. The bottom line is that no one should come onto a very respected bearded dragon forum, one who up until literally two days ago endorsed Reptisun UVB tubes to the point that most senior members and moderators use them and have used them for a long time, and suddenly one day start correcting posts written by other experienced members, and start writing "unfortunately Reptisun are not good UVB tubes, buy only Arcadia", based on absolutely ZERO EVIDENCE OR PROOF. There's a lot of people who have some explaining to do to the hundreds of new members who have gone out and purchased a Reptisun UVB tube based on direct recommendation of some of the very people who are suddenly bashing them. And theses people were endorsing them as recently as a two to three days ago. If you want to endorse a different UVB light company great, go ahead, present their testing results and endorse them, but don't make up false claims about one of the best UVB light companies out there on a forum where many moderators endorse these lights daily to people with sick beardies, especially before testing is even done.


This is encouraging to me, as I had bought a Reptisun 10.0 for my new beardie via recommendation of this forum, and I was saddened to read these claims because I didn't want to drop more money on a different UVB bulb. I only want the best for her, though, so I would buy a different bulb if the need arose. (Let me just say, though--the Reptisun has been VERY kind to my beardie. She's gotten much healthier since I got her!)
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Re: ALLEGED PROBLEMS WITH REPTISUN T5HO 10%UVB TUBES (IN 201

Postby kingofnobbys » Sun Aug 27, 2017 8:30 am

Another thing : a reputable manufacturer will recall defective product and make a public PRODUCT RECALL announcement asking people who bought their products while the bad batch was on the shelves to return the defective units for a replacement with a new one (which is made to specification).
The problem has allegedly been going on for months so they've had plenty of time to put a recall out.

Has this happened ? I just checked on Google for Reptisun 10.0 recall : NOTHING.
CBDs: Cleopatra & Caesar born 28Jan19.
Puff (RIP 10Dec15),Rex (RIP 16Mar17),Toothless (RIP 26Nov17).Peppa (RIP 22Mar19).
EBTSs : George & Mildred (born july 2010).
EWSs : Fluffy rescued injured by lawnwacker14Nov17, Gutzy 27Sep19.
Lucky - cat attack rescue, SI RIP 21Jul2010.
Wriggles - injured rescued, boss lizard, over 8 yrs old, RIP 2Feb16. .
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Re: ALLEGED PROBLEMS WITH REPTISUN T5HO 10%UVB TUBES (IN 201

Postby kyleena29 » Sun Aug 27, 2017 11:14 am

I feel like I'm the one being bashed for telling the "proof" I have of 8 reptisun 10.0HO T5 bulbs sitting in my closet collecting dust. That is not an opinion and not a false claim. I'm not savy in producing graphs. I am warning people of my own findings and can't recommend reptisun at this time. My three beardies quit eating so I coughed up the money and bought a solarmeter. If any other solarmeter owners have found similar issues please say so here. I can't say there is something wrong with ALL their bulbs. Fran has yet to complete her study of a new batch that was sent to her. She had 2 bulbs sent to her to test and the findings were not good earlier this year. I will post a copy of some of her posts and hopefully that is ok to do. If there was a remote chance something is wrong with bulbs and I wasn't able to test them I'd want to know about it. Like I wish I knew before purchasing all those bulbs. There are several people reporting low readings and I saw a comment that one of them had nothing wrong with theirs so if you can find a way to get your bulbs tested please do so. I will post when she comes up with her results. Hopefully they will have fixed any problems.

There is also a thread earlier this year that touched on it a little.
viewtopic.php?f=34&t=231575&p=1785794&hilit=solarmeter#p1785794



Fran Baines The Reptisun 10.0 T5-HO tubes do indeed seem to be producing low UVB output at present. I am in conversation with ZooMed over this right now. So it is not likely to be your meter.
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· March 13 at 2:00pm
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Fran Baines The ZooMed Reptisun T5-HO 10.0 has been problematical recently because of a change in supplier a couple of years ago, which resulted in tubes that had about 50% of their previous output. However, I've literally just received samples of the new version - haven't even opened the box yet - so I'm hoping they are back up to the original strength and are/will be on sale replacing the weaker ones.
So at present, if the Reptisun T5-HO 10.0 T5-HO tube this lady has, was purchased more than a few weeks ago it would probably be best fitted in a reflector fixture and hung about 12" above the tortoise...
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· Reply · July 9 at 3:51pm

Donna Chatham Fran, do you know any batch numbers or dates when the low uvb bulbs were manufactured? I don't have a meter and can't test mine.
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· March 14 at 2:41pm
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Fran Baines No, I'm sorry. All I know is that the ones I bought in early June 2016 had far lower readings than ones I got in 2013...
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· March 14 at 3:20pm
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Donna Chatham thanks. I hope they do some sort of recall on the less effective bulbs.


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· March 14 at 3:45pm


Fran Baines I was sent a single sample of one 24Watt T5-HO Reptisun 10.0 and one 24Watt T5-HO Reptisun 5.0 tube, sometime last summer, and I tested the both back then. I found that both of them had about half the output of lamps I have tested previously. I have continued to test the 10.0 (using it over a vivarium) and it has continued to decay. I have been told by a reliable source that ZooMed have changed manufacturers, and I have assumed that this is the reason for the new, lower output from both tubes. However, I might be wrong in this, and just been "unlucky" in getting two poor lamps, and so I cannot say any more at present. (I'm away from home right now so can't give actual figures/dates till I get back)
I intend to send the results to ZooMed and ask for their advice, but I haven't had time so far.
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Re: ALLEGED PROBLEMS WITH REPTISUN T5HO 10%UVB TUBES (IN 201

Postby kyleena29 » Sun Aug 27, 2017 11:24 am

On Monday, March 27, 2017 1:40 PM, Jennifer Shamblin <JShamblin@zoomed.com> wrote:

Hello,

Thank you for contacting us. I am sorry to hear that you are getting low readings on your Reptisun 10.0 T5 bulbs. We have come across a batch of bulbs that does provide adequate levels of UVB but decays faster than we would like. The levels of UVB are still adequate to supply your bearded dragon what it needs over the duration of the 8-12 hour period. Exposure to a UVI of 1.7 over a longer duration will still give them the UVB they need, bearded dragons can handle higher levels of UVI up to 3-4 but they should only be in this exposure range for small amounts of time.
We do have a 12 month warranty on the Reptisun bulbs from the date of purchase with your receipt. If you would like them replaced under the warranty I will need a copy of your receipt along with your full name and mailing address please.

Kind Regards,

Jennifer S.
Customer Service
cid:image001.jpg@01CB66EE.899AE330
Zoo Med Laboratories, Inc.
3650 Sacramento Drive
San Luis Obispo, CA 93401
888-496-6633 - Toll Free
805-542-9988 - Direct
805-542-9295 - Fax
www.zoomed.com

This is one of a few emails I had with zoomed and this is what they said.
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Re: ALLEGED PROBLEMS WITH REPTISUN T5HO 10%UVB TUBES (IN 201

Postby AHBD » Sun Aug 27, 2017 12:55 pm

It's good to see this brought up. No one should be bashed or feel bashed, thanks for posting this topic and Kyleena thanks for posting the info that you did. We'll all no doubt look forward to seeing where this goes.
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Re: ALLEGED PROBLEMS WITH REPTISUN T5HO 10%UVB TUBES (IN 201

Postby Drache613 » Sun Aug 27, 2017 8:43 pm

Hello,

I am a member of the UVB meter group on Facebook because I greatly respect Frances Baines. She
is a very honest person & I don't think that for any reason, she would purposely hide any facts or
information regarding on lights. She isn't biased towards any of them, nor does she have anything
to gain from promoting any specific one, either.
She had told me a few months ago, that Zoomed was aware of the problem & were working on
remedying the issues. This is a huge company so we can only hope they are on the up & up with
everyone & will be transparent.

Tracie
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Re: ALLEGED PROBLEMS WITH REPTISUN T5HO 10%UVB TUBES (IN 201

Postby kyleena29 » Sun Aug 27, 2017 8:59 pm

Also, does anyone find that acceptable that they would say 1.4 or 1.7 uvi (artificial not the sunlight) is adequate for a bearded dragon? That is what zoomed told me in that email. Fran did also say that they still emit good wavelengths and that I could put two of my bulbs together and it would still be better than most other brands out there. Buying another fixture would cost more than a different bulb though. I only posted Fran Baines posts because I find her to be very reputable. There are several other claims. I know not many people can afford a solarmeter, neither could I, but I was spending a lot of money trying to find out what's wrong with my little ones. Some may not realize this but some pet stores and veterinarians may provide testing for you if you bring in your bulb and fixture. You just need to call around to find out. Something I wish I thought of before buying one. But I think it is a great tool to have so I won't have to worry about it.
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Re: ALLEGED PROBLEMS WITH REPTISUN T5HO 10%UVB TUBES (IN 201

Postby kingofnobbys » Sun Aug 27, 2017 9:49 pm

Thankyou.

So it seems (is implied) from the reply from Zoo Med that an issue with the phosphors was short-term and is resolved (?) :
We have come across a batch of bulbs (T5HO tubes) that does provide adequate levels of UVB but decays faster than we would like. The levels of UVB are still adequate to supply your bearded dragon what it needs over the duration of the 8-12 hour period.

, they are happy to replace dodgey tubes with new provided they get a copy of the receipt. I presume anyone who suspects their tube is dodgey need only fish out their receipt and send it to Zoo Med, even if they don't personally have a means of testing their tub/s for either UVI or microW UVB/sq.cm.

Will be interesting to see where this goes and the outcome for more testing on statistically significant size samples of tubes (from before, in the batch, and after).

I suggest if you suspect your Zoo Med T5HO 10% uvb tube is one of the dodgey batch/production run tubes , fish out your receipt and send a copy to :
Jennifer S.
Customer Service

Zoo Med Laboratories, Inc.
3650 Sacramento Drive
San Luis Obispo, CA 93401
888-496-6633 - Toll Free
805-542-9988 - Direct
805-542-9295 - Fax


Feel free to put other Herping groups in the picture.
CBDs: Cleopatra & Caesar born 28Jan19.
Puff (RIP 10Dec15),Rex (RIP 16Mar17),Toothless (RIP 26Nov17).Peppa (RIP 22Mar19).
EBTSs : George & Mildred (born july 2010).
EWSs : Fluffy rescued injured by lawnwacker14Nov17, Gutzy 27Sep19.
Lucky - cat attack rescue, SI RIP 21Jul2010.
Wriggles - injured rescued, boss lizard, over 8 yrs old, RIP 2Feb16. .
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Re: ALLEGED PROBLEMS WITH REPTISUN T5HO 10%UVB TUBES (IN 201

Postby kyleena29 » Mon Sep 18, 2017 6:13 pm

Here is an update today on Facebook reptile lighting group. I am not sure if the gold or red cap ones were all affected and after reading this I checked all of mine and all 8 have gold end caps. If the problem has indeed been fixed people still need to be aware that older ones are still out in circulation and people may be using the affected bulbs right now. If you have ones with gold/red caps I would get them tested or ask zoomed for replacements if within 1 year of purchase. You could also try asking if yours falls under affected batch numbers.

Fran BainesGroup Admin I'm half-way through testing the new ZooMed T5-HO tubes (with the silver end-caps as Jimmy has described). So far I have seen about double the output of the ones they were selling before (with the gold or red end-caps). So basically, these are good..
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Jimmy Wendler
Jimmy Wendler The ones I got may have had a manufacturing or shipping issue with how rough the end caps were. One of the two failed within a week of use and my dragons wanted nothing to do with the one that kept working. I had enough issues that I jumped ship for Arcadia and havnt been having an issue since. .
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Chris Phillips Double, being what number approx
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Fran Baines
Fran BainesGroup Admin 22-inch Reptisun 10 T5-HO, no reflector, at 10" giving UVI 3.0 brand new, 2.8 after burning-in for 100 hours.
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Chris Phillips Thank you
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