Possible parasites, Cannot go to vet, need home remedies.

I posted about this in behaviors because my bearded dragon Felix has had stress marks all week. And now I think he may have parasites. His poop is either just barely holding its shape, or just a puddle. and it REEKS. I need to know if there is anything, ANYTHING, I can do to help that doesn't involve taking him to a vet.

I KNOW the vet is the best, if not, ONLY option here. And believe me if I could I'd take him right away. My issue is my father REFUSES to take him or pay for it. Me and my mom cannot convince him no matter how hard we try. I would pay for it myself, but my dad doesn't want me getting a job until I finish school. My mom is convinced we can order medicine online or find a home remedy. Which though I'm VERY skeptical, I don't have much a choice. I need suggestions.

Its either find some bullcrap remedy and try our luck, or wait until june to see if I can take my pet to the vet as a birthday gift. Felix still has an appetite and energy in spite of this, but I want to treat it before it gets to a point where that stops.

You could call a vet to find out if there is a place you can just drop a sample off to. It shouldn't be expensive. I am not sure if there is a way to do that. I can't remember the name but there was someone you could send a sample to. Keep in mind they would only be able to see some parasites, like the eggs. A fresh sample would be needed for other parasites. I think Tracie (known as Drache613 here) can help you get in contact with someone that can have it sent to for a very small fee. You can buy medicine online but you really need to know what you are treating first as there are a few medications that are possibly needed. In the meantime I would keep the cage cleaned daily and on paper towels changed daily.

We should also know what your temps are to be sure they are digesting properly. Are you using a temp gun, digital with probe or stick on thermometers?

kyleena29":z0qwzzyf said:

You could call a vet to find out if there is a place you can just drop a sample off to. It shouldn't be expensive. I am not sure if there is a way to do that. I can't remember the name but there was someone you could send a sample to. Keep in mind they would only be able to see some parasites, like the eggs. A fresh sample would be needed for other parasites. I think Tracie (known as Drache613 here) can help you get in contact with someone that can have it sent to for a very small fee. You can buy medicine online but you really need to know what you are treating first as there are a few medications that are possibly needed. In the meantime I would keep the cage cleaned daily and on paper towels changed daily.

We should also know what your temps are to be sure they are digesting properly. Are you using a temp gun, digital with probe or stick on thermometers?

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I've found a really good exotic vet in our area that MAYBE I can send a sample to, I wanted to call them but seeing its currently sunday, they are not open. Otherwise I might see about that Tracie friend you were talking about, thanks for the suggestion!

And yeah, that was my main issue with ordering medicine, not knowing exactly what we are treating. He's currently on tile for flooring but I'll prolly switch it out for paper towels in the meantime if thats what best for cleaning. I should prolly soak his cage structures in bleach or something too, not sure how that'll turn out for the porous surfaces like his half log and branch thing. Otherwise, I always clean up his poop right away.

As for his Temperatures and lighting. Though it may not matter, for UVB he has a reptisun 10.0 that SHOULD be nearing a replacement, I should have an extra handy somewhere. For his Heating lamp, Just saturday I switched him from a 75w to a 100w. I felt maybe the 75w was too low and was the culprit for his stinky poops, but just this morning he took a diarrhea in the middle of his cage and it was AWFULLY smelly. His lamp is about 6 1/2 inches from his basking hammock.

I use a stick on thermometer, I know they cannot be accurate but it was all I had access to at the moment and I wanted to use it to get at least a vague idea of his cage temp. It currently reads 95 degrees Fahrenheit. I do not have a thermometer for the cool end of his cage just yet.

You really will need the right thermometers. If temps are not right it would throw off how their body works and could be a contributor to allowing parasites to take over. If it smells that bad it is probably parasites. Maybe even coccidia, if I remember correctly it can cause terrible smelling stools. It would be best to get a fresh sample to a lab with sending it via mail a 2nd option. Here are thermometers that are pretty cheap here: https://www.amazon.com/Zacro-Aquarium-Thermometer-Terrarium-Temperature/dp/B01C6PE4G2/ref=pd_lpo_vtph_199_bs_t_1?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1&refRID=SFPACPTGGX1CFH7RYWD2

If you need meds if you find parasites:

This is Tracie's site, she can help you out too
http://www.bug-de-lite.com/store/index.php?app=ecom&ns=catshow&ref=Medications

Other options as well as other supplies you might want

http://www.beautifuldragons.com/Reptilestore.html

http://www.beardeddragon.co/index.php?route=product/category&path=60

kyleena29":22lmt542 said:

You really will need the right thermometers. If temps are not right it would throw off how their body works and could be a contributor to allowing parasites to take over. If it smells that bad it is probably parasites. Maybe even coccidia, if I remember correctly it can cause terrible smelling stools. It would be best to get a fresh sample to a lab with sending it via mail a 2nd option. Here are thermometers that are pretty cheap here: https://www.amazon.com/Zacro-Aquarium-Thermometer-Terrarium-Temperature/dp/B01C6PE4G2/ref=pd_lpo_vtph_199_bs_t_1?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1&refRID=SFPACPTGGX1CFH7RYWD2

If you need meds if you find parasites:

This is Tracie's site, she can help you out too
http://www.bug-de-lite.com/store/index.php?app=ecom&ns=catshow&ref=Medications

Other options as well as other supplies you might want

http://www.beautifuldragons.com/Reptilestore.html

http://www.beardeddragon.co/index.php?route=product/category&path=60

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Thank you SO much, I'll get on this ASAP. As well as get that thermometer. You're a life saver.

My VERY last question before I switch out his tiles, should I leave his structures in there while we treat him or should we used replacement ones that can be cleaned easily until the parasites are gone?

I wouldn't want to change his environment too much. If it's stuff that is easily cleaned daily then I would leave it in there. If you have a handheld steamer it would work really nice for disinfecting rather than chemicals.

The only easy to clean thing in his cage is his repti hammock (its one of those green plastic ones). Otherwise he has a half log and a spindly branch, both made from VERY porous wood that are possible playgrounds for parasites. I don't think we have a handheld steamer, I can always look. Otherwise, I might go with the bleach, rinse, bake method to disinfect, and then leave them out of his cage until the situation is treated. Until then, I'll see if I cant find something similar to them that I cant just scrub down with soap and water every night. Gonna call the vet tomorrow, and if they dont have any do-able options, then I'll go your route. Wish me luck!

Hey there. I’m so sorry for the situation you’re in, and hopefully it’s one of many potential beardie issues that can be easily addressed by taking a look at husbandry, diet, etc. As someone already mentioned, it’s crucial to use a temp gun to get accurate surface readings, as stick on wall thermometers only measure ambient air/wall temperature and can be inaccurate by as much as 20-30 degrees. If your beardie’s an adult then you’ll want to make sure basking site temps have a range between 95 and 105 (100-110 degrees for babies). Basking temperature plays a huge role in metabolism, particularly digestion, so if the temps have been outside the required range this can affect things like bowel movements. Certain foods can also cause more runny/liquid bowel movements, so it might not hurt to review your beardie’s diet. Butternut squash and hornworms, for example, while perfectly fine as part of a beardie’s diet, can sometimes cause very runny stool if they’re eaten in abundance. A while ago I adopted a beardie that had consistently runny bowel movements, and a fecal test at the vet revealed coccidia and pinworms. While it’s actually normal for many beardies to have low levels of certain parasites, because her count was so high medication was needed in that instance. Her condition was easily treatable, and she’s now healthy and in the clear, so don’t panic at the possibility, but after you’ve ruled out diet, improper temperatures, etc., I think it’s always a good idea to do a fecal test/vet visit. If you’re able to see a vet, it’s so important to make sure it’s a herp vet, which can often be different from someone that simply labels them self as an exotic vet. Vets inexperienced with reptiles have been known to prescribe inappropriate medications that were never intended for herps, sometimes with tragic results. A herp vet is also less likely to overmedicate or to prescribe medication simply for the sake of pacifying a worried pet owner. I think the vet visit, fecal test, and meds for my coccidia beardie were $80 the first round and the fecal retest was $20 (to see if she needed another round of Panacur). Sometimes local reptile rescues, if you’re fortunate enough to have one in your county, will admit and retreat animals whose owners find themselves in the exact situation you are, so it may be worth looking into whether that’s an option. I know there are mail in and do-it-yourself fecal test kits available from places like beardeddragon.co and the beautiful dragons website. If anyone has any experience or recommendations regarding this option hopefully they can offer guidance on whether this is a route worth considering. I hope some of this information is useful. I know how stressful it is when an animal is sick but I think there’s a solution even within the limitations of your situation.

Both of you are saints, honestly, thank you so much for the advice! I should be getting those new thermometers HOPEFULLY SOON so I'll post the exact temps as soon as I can. As for his diet, I have considered it being the issue, but I'm not sure if what I feed him could give him such watery poop.
As a staple green he's given dandelion greens, and occasionally carrots (which he LOVES), and strawberries or most recently, blackberries because I read they have good fiber content, He gets carrots prolly 4-5 days a week, and one of the two berries once or twice. I used to give him butternut squash, but I thought it was the culprit for his smelly, watery poops and removed it from his diet. Which makes me feel bad because that means the greens are his only staple so it makes for a boring salad every so often. Since taking it out made no changes I might bring it back. I always give his salad a few good sprays from his misting bottle before giving them to him.

For his bugs, he gets supers dusted with calcium power, about 6-7 at a time. We sometimes skip bugs in the day because I know how supers can be (He's an adult beardie so he prolly should be eating more salad anyways). He sometimes gets crickets too whenever we happen to make a trip to the petshop for any reason, 12 at a time, dusted with calcium as well.

As for the vet, I feel I'd trust someone who labels them self a herp vet better, but this vet has very good reviews and seems to be a favorite from all exotic pet owners in the area. They do not take dogs, cats, or other large animals and are purely for birds, rodents, lizards and etc. Here's a link to their site: https://www.aeacarizona.com/ I THINK I can trust them but if anything seems too sketchy or my gut tells me otherwise, I'll look elsewhere.

This has been very reassuring and helpful. I really can't thank you guys enough.

I'm not too sure you want to give carrots that often. Here is a good resource of foods that a lot of people here suggest. Have you thought about trying dubia roaches or phoenix worms instead? It is also a good idea to try the different greens cycled so they don't have the same thing all the time. It's really nice that yours will eat greens, still trying to get mine to. I'm glad you could get the thermometers.

http://www.beautifuldragons.com/Nutrition.html

I actually already use that chart, is pretty helpful. And you’re probably right, I should cut back on the carrots. It’s just funny watching him pick them out first then reluctantly eat the rest of the greens, almost like a child eating a bowl of lucky charms. I feel bad though because if I had to eat a bland salad all the time I’d prolly go insane. Since I live in Arizona there’s BOUND to be a place nearby that sells prickly pears so I might have him give that a try. Variety is the spice of life, yknow?

And I have considered switching to Dubias, Phoenix worms, or even possibly just crickets. Hearing all the horror stories about mealworms and impaction makes me wary about supers since they’re basically mealworms on steroids. I’ll probably get one of those kritter keeper things and keep crickets, there’s a pet shop within walking distance that sells crickets and they’re pretty reputable. Then eventually move one to Dubias or Phoenix worms. I read a really neat tutorial on here about gutloading Phoenix worms so I might go that route!

With that vet clinic see if you can get an appointment with Scagneli, who appears to have a background in reptiles. If it’s coccidia, pinworms, or a combo of the two that end up being the culprit, it’s likely she’ll prescribe something like Panacur. If she ever mentions the medication Ivermectin—which is a livestock medication that inexperienced vets will mistakenly prescribe to reptiles—then grab your lizard and run. Under the articles section of this website there’s an article on coccidia you might want to check out before the vet visit as well. I think it also lists some of the standard medications that will likely be prescribed in the event your beardie tests positive for parasites.
It sounds like you’ve already done due diligence to rule out diet as a cause, so after the vet confirms this isn’t a factor you can add more variety back into the mix. My guys love butternut squash and it’s a great staple veggie to mix with greens.
As for insects, if you’ve been running to the pet store for crickets consider ordering insects in bulk online. It saves a ton of money and many places offer variety packs so you can buy a mix of crickets, hornworms, dubias, Phoenix worms, etc. I like Rainbow Mealworms for crickets, hornworms, red runner roaches, and super worms, and either Fluker’s or Symton BSF for Phoenix worms (BSFL). I’ve recently started ordering a very small amount of superworms as a rare treat because they have a high fat content and aren’t very nutritious compared to other feeders. They’re a bit like the Big Macs of the bug world, so I restrict them to the treat category and focus on making dubias, Phoenix worms, crickets, and hornworms the staples. If you’re interested in Phoenix worms, the great thing about them is they require no maintenance (including food). So while it’s important to gutload other insects with beardie friendly veggies and greens, Phoenix worms are an exception. They’re calcium rich and all my beardies love them, so I definitely recommend them as a feeder to have in your rotation.
It’s great that it looks like you’ll be able to take your beardie to the vet. If you have concerns about any medications or treatments the vet suggests you can always get a second opinion on this site from one of the members that have a background in treating reptiles and dealing extensively with illness. Coccidia and pinworms are very common in beardies, but if the parasite load is higher than what’s considered normal and requires treatment, it’s usually a very easy procedure (and the meds aren’t very expensive). Good luck at the vet and please post an update after the appointment.

So, bad news is I don't have an appointment just yet, I've yet to get my Dad on board with this. BUT, good news is I called the vet just now, they said the exam is 60$, and there are two different tests that test for different things so one is 20$ and the other is 40$. Also medicine might cost extra if I get it there. I was pretty scared when she told me because I thought it would be too expensive but my mom seems to think its not that bad. All I have to do now is convince my dad to take me and maybe scrape together some money so I'm at least not making my parents pay for it entirely, seeing the amount of chores I do around the house, It shouldn't be too difficult to earn it. I'll also try to get my mom on board with ordering crickets/phoenix worms. We've ordered superworms before, but made the mistake of putting my sibling in charge of them (He owns a dragon too). They died within a few days and I was absolutely livid. I don't feed dead bugs to my lizard ever so they essentially all went to waste.

Also, my mom might've ordered the thermometers, and since she uses amazon prime they should be here very soon.

The more expensive test will probably get sent to a lab for a more thorough look and would probably be the better option. Did you try asking if you could skip the exam and just drop off a sample? It's possible a vet somewhere would do that, especially if they don't actually treat reptiles. Unless your parents are willing to pay for the exam. As for the meds, you can get them from the sites I listed. They will more than likely not carry any of the meds except maybe Panacur (which might cost the same as online) if you needed that. The others are usually done at a compounding pharmacy. If you do go to the vet and/or get the fecal done and you get the results just let us know on this site before you actually get any treatment done. As some has said, some vets are not up to date on what meds are available for reptiles now. The parasite Giardia is the one that can cause really smelly stools as well. I think those are best seen at a lab rather than just a fecal float (which would be the $20 test). A lab would see all in a fecal float plus more, so do the $40 if you can to save the trouble if they find nothing in the fecal float.

Metronizadole will treat Giarda, the only place I found it is at beautifuldragons.com
Toltrazuril treats coccidia and Tracie carries that at bug de lite
Panacur treats pinworms and Strongid treats pinworms, roundworms and other types of worms.

Tracie is very good about helping you with questions and shipping quickly so she would be my first choice if you don't need Metronizadole.

When you do get the results back make sure you ask what the "count" is. There is a point where having parasites is fine as long as not too much. Some vets will treat anyways regardless when it's not really necessary.

DudeSkull":3hax3p5e said:

So, bad news is I don't have an appointment just yet, I've yet to get my Dad on board with this. BUT, good news is I called the vet just now, they said the exam is 60$, and there are two different tests that test for different things so one is 20$ and the other is 40$. Also medicine might cost extra if I get it there. I was pretty scared when she told me because I thought it would be too expensive but my mom seems to think its not that bad. All I have to do now is convince my dad to take me and maybe scrape together some money so I'm at least not making my parents pay for it entirely, seeing the amount of chores I do around the house, It shouldn't be too difficult to earn it. I'll also try to get my mom on board with ordering crickets/phoenix worms. We've ordered superworms before, but made the mistake of putting my sibling in charge of them (He owns a dragon too). They died within a few days and I was absolutely livid. I don't feed dead bugs to my lizard ever so they essentially all went to waste.

Also, my mom might've ordered the thermometers, and since she uses amazon prime they should be here very soon.

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Oh my god!
I live in another country and the stool examination costs € 10 if you have an (insurance) agreement or € 15 not covered. € 40 I spent them only once for the cryptosporidi exam.

Some foods, like white rose's petals, naturally fight a light infection but it is more appropriate to use them for prevention than as a cure.

When my girls were small it happened that they did the liquid poo simply because I gave them vegetables too wet or not yet at room temperature.