Help 3 month old not eating and falling

I got my daughter a bearded dragon January 3rd from a reputable reptile shop. I think he is 3 to 4 minths old. He was very stressed at the beginning a ate very little. Finally got better after close to 2 weeks. Was active and liked eating. Never seemed to excited to eat though. But in last week has slowed his eating greatly. I think he ate 2 roaches and 2 crickets today. We tried feeding him about 5 times today. Then in the evening he fell off his basking trunk twice. This is his favorite spot. He has a foam fake rock wall he has slept on every night we have had him, but tonight he is sleeping on the ground.

Thinking maybe dehydration. Very worried about him. Bathing him and misting (dripping water), but was confused as many places i read said water and misting was bad as they got all moisture from food. Have not had a water bowl in with him much. He has pooped every day we have had him. My daughter likes to interact with him on her bed. Could he be stressed?

Here is the setup. I know I will leave something out but I will try to get all. He has 3 ft long tank from petsmart (national geo brand). Heat lamp on left which seems to be about 110 F (it heat gun). Uvb is a t5 22 inch mounted below the screen. It is hanging about 6inch or less from basking spot. Another coil light only lamp on right. Temps are typically about 80 F there. We have a reptile carpet or paper towels instead of substrate.

We feed him crickets, Dubia roaches, bsfl, and greens. He almost never will eat the greens or the occasional carrot slices. Hates all veggies I have tried except collards. Likes the crickets ok. Seems to enjoy the roaches. Hates the bsfl. Spits them out. We were told to do 50/50 calcium w/ d and vitamin mix once a day. We mostly have done that, but he doesn't seem to eat as well with vitamins. He gets the calcium at least 5 days a week on one feeding. Roaches and crickets are but loaded on a green gel food and the greens I can't get him to eat. Have tried to feed him in smaller Tupperware bowl a few times so as to not have crickets in the terrarium and to make it easier for him to catch them. This just seems to stress him. As do his baths.

Well first of all, it's probably not related to dehydration, but it's perfectly fine to mist him or better yet drip water on his snout for him to drip off several times a day. What people were trying to say is that Bearded Dragons naturally have no concept of standing water, and in their natural Australian Desert habitat they get most all of their hydration from their live insects and their fresh vegetation, and most in captivity do the same and will not drink from a bowl or the bath (some do, but not all). The bowl in the tank is a bad idea for a baby, they have a bad habit of falling asleep in the water and this can kill them if they do it overnight, they become chilled. So at most leave a bowl of water in his tank and take it out at bedtime when the lights go out. But offering him water on his snout is the best way to get him extra hydration when he's not eating.

2 lighting issues I see that may be causing him neurological and/or vision problems. The first is the coil UVB light over the cool side. Please remove it immediately, as #1) they emit little to no UVB light anyway and on top of a mesh lid it's not getting ANY adequate or effective UVB light to him at all and serves no purpose, and #2) coil lights are very well know to cause eye issues, blindness, and severe neurological issues, so this could very well be the source of the problem. If you have a T5 strength UVB tube that is 22" long (I'm assuming the 22" Reptisun 10.0 T5HO UVB tube, very good UVB tube for Dragons) over the Hot Side of the tank and right alongside the bright-white colored Basking Bulb, with his basking spot/platform positioned directly underneath both lights, then he needs no UVB light at all over the Cool Side of the tank...

The second and probably the main issue is you have a very, very strong UVB tube way too close to him, and this is probably causing him neurological issues. The T5 UVB tubes are 24 watts, or that one is, and only needs to be within 11-12" of his basking spot/platform to deliver effective UVB and UVA light. Also, they are strong enough to actually sit on top of the mesh lid and still deliver effective UVB and UVA light on the other side of the mesh. So if you have to sit the T5 UVB tube on top of the mesh lid in order to get it to the 11" mark away from his basking spot/platform, then please do it asap. It might be a good idea to just do that anyway at this point to see how it helps her out, just unstrap it from under the mesh lid and just sit it on top of the mesh lid (as long as it's still within 11" of her basking spot/platform, I don't know how high your tank is), being sure to keep it right alongside the bright-white colored basking bulb , so that both lights are sharing the top of the Hot Side of the tank, with her basking spot/platform right underneath both lights. And be sure that you have both lights on for at least 13-14 hours every day.

Try these 2 things and see if she doesn't show marked improvement within 48 hours. My guess is she will...

I have removed the compact fluorescent light (coil). I had it on as I had read that placing a general light above the cool side with no heat it would help make the lizard close his eyes more and not look at the uvb light.

The uvb light is the reptisun t5 22 inch in a sunsomething ballast. I will move it above the mesh tonight. The uvb is actually 7 inches from the perch right now. Another issue is that he sits on the wall at the back of the tank (left) which is actually closer to the uvb. I guess it would be best to remove the wall. I hate to do it as it is about his favorite place. The heat lamp i beleive is a halogen type lamp.

Here us the tank. https://www.petsmart.com/reptile/habitats-and-decor/terrariums/national-geographicandtrade-reptile-desert-kit-27781.html It is 18 inches in height.

Thank you. I have found the information on the site in general very helpful.

You don't have to remove the wall, it's okay if he gets close to it once in a while, and it's not on at night so obviously that's not going to cause issues if he sleeps on the wall because the tube is off at night. But even 7" is too close for that UVB tube, I've been using that particular UVB tube for years, it's a great tube for dragons, but it's extremely strong, and as long as it's within 11-12" of his basking spot it can sit right on top of the mesh. The problem is that it's on all day long, and it's constantly on him all day, full strength with nothing obstructing it, and only 7" away. Putting it up on top of the mesh lid and a couple of inches further away will still get him more than adequate UVB/UVA light as long as it's on for 13-14 hours every day, and it will remove that bright UVB right in his face all day...

The coil UVB is most likely 75% of the problem, they are just awful bulbs. Some type of harmful light ray is emitted by them, due to the manufacturing process, that causes these exact issues in almost every dragon we see underneath them. The good new is that you also had a T5 UVB tube on him at the same time, so your dragon is not also dealing with the usual MBD/Calcium deficiency problems on top of the usual neurological issues that most dragons under coil UVB lights are, because they are typically the only UVB light they have. And as far as having another light over the Cool Side to keep them from staring at the lights, it's amazing what people actually post on the internet. I've never once heard that, nor in over 15 years of owning dragons has it been an issue. They don't typically look up at the lights at all, they know innately about bright, intense sunlight. So he'll be fine as far as that goes. I bet that just getting rid of the coil light will improve things drastically, and moving the T5 tube further away from his basking spot by about 5" or so will also lessen the stress on his eyes. There actually is such a thing as "Too much UVB light", it happens.

Thank you so much for your help. I don't think the coil cfl was as big an issue as he was almost never on that side of the tank and it was only a normal gel lamp not a uvb lamp. But the t5 uvb lamp I believe was the issue. I think he spent alot more time on the upper part of the wall than I realized. I believe the uvb lamp burned his eyes. I know it hasn't been 48 hrs yet, but the only improvement I see is less falling off of things. I feel absolutely terrible as I was trying to do everything I could to make it all perfect for him. I think I am as attached to the little guy as my daughter is.

He has been eating a few 1/4 inch roaches. I think he ate 2 in the morning and 4 or 5 just a bit ago. He only eats the roaches now. I did get some hornworms in but no luck there yet. No greens at all in the last 2-3 days.

I am worried that the damage is permanent. Any suggestions as to how to help him have a decent life even if he can't see?

He should be okay, it's just going to take some time. The fact that he's eating some live bugs is a good sign, and don't worry at all about him not eating any greens/veggies, as he's just a baby, and most dragons don't eat many, if any greens/veggies at all until they are close to a year old or older. This is because they do most of their growth and development during their first year of life, and as such they don't need the greens/veggies, they need tons of live insect protein every day in order to properly grow. So he may start eating the salads, he may not, but as long as he's eating his live insects he's okay. (He should get at least 2 live insect feeding sessions every day, 3 is better up to 8 months then scale back to 2, each lasting 10-15 minutes, where he's allowed to eat as many live bugs as he wants to). And be sure to dust all of the live bugs from 1 of his daily feeding sessions in calcium 5 days a week and in a multivitamin 3 days a week. That's forever.

His eyes are most likely okay, he's just got some neurological issues going on. And I promise you that the coil bulb was a lot of the issue, no matter whether he was directly under it a lot or not. This literally happens all the time whenever someone is using any coil UVB, everything from this behavior to full blown seizures and blindness. So he's actually doing pretty well. Just keep feeding him regularly, and offer him some water dripped onto his snout for him to lick off, then drip, lick, drip, lick, etc. Do that several times each day, just in case he is a bit dehydrated. He should be fine, you caught the problem early.

I noticed today that his back bone appears to be curved. I have done all the lighting suggestions. He is eating. He actually ate about 12 roaches yesterday. But only 3 today and he does not seem to be getting any better and looks smaller. I don't have a scale for his weight. He seemed to stop falling, but I noticed 2 falls late last evening. He is very jerky with any movement and still at times seems to get excited when he sees a roach, but then just sits there or even backs up. I previously discounted a vet visit as he is so small and took a full 2 weeks to get over his initial stress of coming home. I have found a vet, but he is over 30 mins away. I made an appointment for tonight.
Jan 29th
Today
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Could he have possibly hurt himself during one of the falls? I hope not...you might want to get an x-ray done, as this will not only show any injuries he might have obtained from one of the falls, but also will show his bone density and any indications of a calcium deficiency/MBD.

Also, I forgot to ask, in addition to daily calcium supplementation (he should be getting calcium 5 times a week), are you giving him a reptile-grade multivitamin at least 3 times a week? They can also easily suffer from a Vitamin B1 (Thiamine) deficiency if they don't get a multivitamin, and the symptoms of a Vitamin B1 Deficiency mimic the symptoms of MBD/calcium deficiency almost exactly..

The curve in his spine looks to be normal, just a result of the way that he's laying, at least in the photo, their spines do curve all over the place, so unless his spine is curved like that in every position, even when you pick him up and are holding him in the air, then it's not an injury, but rather just the way he's laying. They also have their stomachs bulging out on one side usually, and this sometimes makes people think they have a growth or are bloated on one side of their belly, but it's just the position they are laying in...

Keep us posted on how he's doing and what the vet says...

Vet said he actually looked pretty good and should make a full recovery. He agreed with the lights, but also wanted his basking area cooler. Slightly less than 90F max he said. He gave me Carnivore Care to give him extra calories, protien, fat, and vitamins. Let me say that so far it is nearly impossible to get him to eat any of it. Put some on a spoon and syringe. He said his bones seemed very strong. That he is falling because he is weak from eating so little for a month. He only ate well maybe three days between when his stress levels dropped and then the lights started to take their toll. He is also doing a parasite test, but I haven't heard back yet.

First of all, he cannot have a Basking Spot Surface Temperature of 90 degrees, he would never be able to digest anything he eats...I hope that the vet was speaking about his Hot Side Ambient (air) Temperature, which should be between 88-93 degrees F, so yes, that's fine to say around 90 degrees. But the actual Basking Spot Surface Temperature, which has to be taken with either a Digital Probe Thermometer or an Infrared Temperature Gun, must absolutely be over 100 degrees, in fact for dragons who are under a year old, usually they become lethargic and won't have any appetite if their Basking Spot Surface Temperature isn't at least 105 degrees, 110 degrees being the absolute max. But again, this is a SURFACE Temperature, not the Hot Side Ambient Temp, which is the air temperature surrounding his Basking Spot...

What type of Thermometer are you using? I thought you said a Digital Probe Thermometer or a Gun, but if not and you're just using a stick-on thermometer of some kind, then getting the stick-on thermometer that is in the Hot Side of the tank to around 90 degrees if fine, but you absolutely must get either a Digital Probe Thermometer or a Gun to measure his Basking Spot Surface Temperature, and it absolutely must be at the very least 100 degrees, but I would aim for 105 degrees. Otherwise he will for sure not have any appetite, and will become impacted by anything that he does eat, nor will he be able to absorb any nutrition at all from anything that he eats, because he won't be able to break it down and digest it in the first place.

Also, as far as the Fecal Test goes, I would be very, very hesitant to put him on any meds right now for parasites UNLESS any of the counts/loads come back in the "High" or "Too Numerous To Count" ranges. Most all Dragons have a low to moderate count of both Coccidia and/or Pinworms at any given time, and their immune systems keep them in-check. So if the Fecal Test cones back positive for either or both Coccidia/Pinworms, but the count/load is low to moderate, any Certified or experienced Reptile Vet will usually not medicated for them, especially if the dragon is already not eating or lethargic due to unrelated issues. This is often unfortunately the start of a downward spiral that some dragons don't ever come back from, because the medications that they give for parasites and infections are extremely harsh on their GI Tracts and their Kidneys.

If he does show a moderate to high count of Coccidia, please request that he be put on Toltrazuril/Ponazuril and NOT Albon. Albon is a Sulfa-Drug, and Bearded Dragons do not handle Sulfa well at all, it has actually killed many dragons due to renal failure. Plus, Albon is an older drug that most reptile vets don't prescribe anymore anyway because it's not nearly as effective as the Toltrazuril/Ponazuril, and in addition, it often takes multiple rounds of Albon to actually get rid of the Coccidia or lower the count/load to low. So never, ever let them put him on Albon.

If he does show a moderate to high count/load of Pinworms, please request that he be put on Panacur, and NOT, ABSOLUTELY NOT EVER PUT ON IVERMECTIN!!!!!!! I'm making a big deal about this because there is an ongoing post right now where a young dragon was given Ivermectin for Pinworms by an "exotics" vet who didn't know that Ivermectin is almost always fatal to Bearded Dragons and all other reptiles in general. It's literally a poison to reptiles, so if your vet even mentions Ivermectin, then run the other direction. Panacur is not only easy on their GI Tract, but is safe, quick, and effective.

I also suggest that if he's put on ANY meds for parasites or an infection that he be put on a Probiotic before, during, and for a week after he finishes the treatment. BeneBac is the most common Probiotic, give it to him about 1-2 hours before he gets a dose of any med, each day, and it will not only keep his Tummy settled and hopefully kick up his appetite, but will also replenish all of the healthy, normal bacteria that lives in his GI Tract and keeps fungal infections at-bay. It's not uncommon for them to develop a secondary fungal infection in their GI Tracts when they are taking these types of meds if they are not taking a Probiotic along with it.

I definitely use a heat gun. I was surprised about the temp advise, but over all he seemed better than some I read about. He asked where he came from and all about his environment. No parasites. The air is about 88 on the hot side and usually 105ish on the basking spot.
Any advise on how to get him to eat the Carnivore Care the doc wants him to have. Supposed to do 1 ml 2xs a day. I have been able to do about .25 today trying 3 times. The syringe seems so big (even though it is a tiny 1ml one) and his mouth so small. I know how to force the mouth open on a kitten or puppy (which I hate to ever do), but I don't know how to on him and I am afraid it will hurt him.

Good on the gun, and great on the no parasites, but I still would not drop the Basking Spot Surface Temp down to 90 degrees, if that's what the vet was speaking about. I'm hoping he was talking about the Hot Side Ambient Temp, but if not then I totally disagree, especially in such a small baby who can become impacted so easily. 90 degrees as a Basking Spot Surface Temp is not nearly high enough to ensure proper digestion, especially once his appetite picks back up and he's eating live insects again, at 90 degrees even crickets will impact him, and he'll likely just excrete most of the nutrition he does take in. I'd not drop the Basking Spot Surface Temp below 100 degrees, that's 10 degrees lower than usual, so that is more than enough of a heat break for the time being.

As far as force feeding, it's touch with such a small baby (another reason not to drop the Basking Surface Temp below 100 degrees, his appetite will never come back;by the way, if you see him making himself extremely dark while basking on the basking spot then you'll know he's trying to absorb more heat purposely and it's not too hot for him)...But here's the way I've done it in the past that works for some people:

Fill the syringe with the Critical Care first, then put him down in front of you on all 4 legs, with his head pointing away from you and looking forward. Hold his body with the hand opposite the hand with the syringe (so if you're right-handed you'll have the syringe in your right hand and you'll be holding him with your left hand). Take the tip of the syringe and insert it under his upper lip at the very back/side of his mouth, back by his ear. Once you get the tip of the syringe under his upper lip back by his ear, slowly slide the tip of the syringe up his mouth, towards the tip of his snout, being sure to keep the tip of the syringe under his upper lip the entire time you're sliding it forward towards the tip of his snout. Keep your thumb on the syringe plunger, ready to push a very small amount of the Critical Care into his mouth at any time...What will happen is that when the tip of the syringe approaches the tip of his snout/front of his mouth, he'll automatically open his mouth. I don't know why, they just do. When he opens his mouth, push the tip of the syringe in-between his teeth, so he cannot shut his mouth again, and keep it there. Push a bit of the Critical Care into his mouth, and typically they'll "chew" it and swallow it, then push a little more in, let him swallow it, push a little more in, let him swallow it, etc. until you've gotten the entire amount in, the entire time holding him firmly with your other hand and keeping the tip of the syringe between his teeth so he can't shut his mouth. If he manages to get the tip of the syringe out from between his teeth and shut his mouth, then just start over again, by inserting the tip of the syringe under his upper lip back on the side of his mouth by his ear, then again slide the tip up his mouth/lip towards the tip of his snout/front of his mouth, until he again opens his mouth up, and when he does quickly put the tip of the syringe back between his teeth so he can't close his mouth again, and then start pushing the Critical Care in again. Just continue this until you get all of it in him.

After you do this a few times you'll get the hang of it, and so will he. It gets easier. The key is getting that tip of the syringe in between his teeth so he cannot close his mouth. This is a lot easier and better for his mouth than just trying to ram the tip of the syringe into his mouth over and over again, which usually results in cuts on their lips/gums...

Thank you. My dripping on his nose definitely wasn't helping. I had figured out how to open the side of his mouth a bit. I will continue to work on this and get your method to work.

The dripping on his snout method works somewhat, for some dragons, others won't lick any off at all, some will lick a couple of drops off and that's it. Any time that they need to get medication or a supplement in them, or they aren't eating and are on a nutritional formula like Critical Care or Emerald, then that's when I do this method, because it's important to get the nutrition/medication/supplements into them. If I'm just offering water for hydration throughout the day then I'll just do the dripping method, but when we're talking about a young dragon that isn't eating properly and needs to get enough Critical Care in him to keep him from losing weight, that's when I go to this method.

How's he doing today?