my DRagons need help

hey I need help. I have 2 bearded dragons. grapefroot, and calibur and they mean allot to me so it worries me to see this, I had them for a year and they were doing OK for most it until location changed and the just haven't been the same they arent growing as fast as they use to and they arent eating now they didn't really much in November and they havent been pooping nor have they been shedding and it been a long while since i seen them shedding. using the same lights, uvb and all and temp is the nothing has changed AND I know its hard raising 2 beardies but these ones arent stressing each other out there not fighting, they get along they known each other since they were small they dont threaten each other last time they did that its when i first got calibur and decided to get him a friend, him and grapfroot hand waved for bit but that didn't last long, and i dont know what can be stressing them out all now there not close to as much pet stores so the food has been coming at a slower rate but its nothing they haven't handled before, they never seemed to like drinking that often out of a bowl or a sink and they do drink its rare which makes me think they need a fountain? but i had stuff in there tank a long time ago when i first got them i didnt now much about them so the objects in the tank where small they out grew them though so they dont have much, in the tank and the basking log is small but they find a way to bask just fine.Its just that been a year now and by the 12 month mark beardies are adults right? well my babies should be adults but they look a bit small a juvenile teen beardie which is weird.And going to the vet is alright y out of the question they dont eat much fruits they dont like fruits as much they will almost never eat it no matter how many times i give it them.

Well at around 12 months to me they are sub adults as they arent exactly done growing, from what ive noticed they dont exactly stop changing until they're 20 months however i could be wrong. Just speaking from experience.

If they arent eating/growing like before it could be because they are housed together, wrong uvb, wrong temperatures, wrong enclosure, and wrong substrate.

A proper uvb is a T5 HO 10.0 reptisun tube light in a reflective hood that fits that goes across the whole enclosure, 22" or 34" for a 20 or 40 gallon (40 is the absolute bare bone minimum for one beardie). And then a 46" or multiple 46" tube lights for 75+ gallons. Coil/compact uvb's do not work at all (screw into a dome lamp) as they do not produce uvb through the screen as they are very weak, and coil bulbs can cause blindness.

The three temperatures need to be
Basking spot 100-110
Warm side 90-95
cool side 70-85

If a 40 gallon is the smallest enclosure you can have for one single beardie and you have two beardies in a 40 gallon then you would need a 8x2x2 or a 8x4x4 enclosure as the recommended size for one beardie to live more happily and healthy is a 4x2x2 enclosure or 75 gallons. Personally i advise you to go and buy another 40 gallon for your other beardie, if you dont nothing will ever get better and who knows when one could lash out and kill the other, most likely wouldnt be too quick of a death either so i doubt you'd want one of them to suffer further than they already are as housing two of them together in a small enclosure is basically animal abuse.

Now for the substrate, all particle substrates are almost entirely bad. Calci-sand, vita-sand, repti soil, just sand in general, colored sand, reptile desert bedding, ground walnuts, ect, the list goes on. Now almost every one of those substrates will cause impaction or a prolapse, calci-sand and vita-sand form like concrete in a lizards stomach slowly killing them. Ground walnuts cut up their insides causing them to bleed to death. Colored sand depending on what type it is can also have the effect like calci-sand, however usually it stains your beardies scales and can cause impaction. Particle substrates are also not natural, if you look outside (in the summer or spring) and you see green grass, a few trees bushes ect, thats basically what their natural habitat looks like. They dont live in sand dunes or very sandy areas. Most of the time they live in areas like that, or areas with sun baked ground that resembles sand in a way but not really. Particle substrates can also cause eye infections, eye irritation, impaction and prolapses of course, stained scales, cut up insides depending on the substrate, and of course death in the end. Beardies usually on average live for 3-4 years in the wild, with captive bred correctly kept beardies living for 15-20 years, and then non correctly kept beardies living the same amount of time almost as their wild counterparts usually 3-10 years. However in some cases these beardies never live past a year.

I do give my beardies a 16x16 dig/lay area of organic soil in the middle of their 75 gallons however its not like the whole enclosure is filled with danger and this can be somewhat passed a bit more easily compared to other substrates if they do happen to digest any of it.

The correct substrate would be tile, paper towels, non adhesive shelf liner, or any non particle substrate that does not cause a risk of injuries.

I will absolutely guarantee you that if you have them housed together, this is absolutely 100% the reason that they aren't growing properly, as yes, they are stressing each other, constantly, every minute of every day. I know you aren't seeing it, no one ever does until they do become aggressive and hurt each other, which can happen on day number one, or at year number one, or year number 4 (if they both live that long). The fact that they haven't attacked each other yet means nothing, as actual aggression towards one another isn't the thing that typically kills one or both dragons when housed together.

I and many other experienced Dragon owners/breeders have seen this literally hundreds of times, and I myself alone have had this same conversation with people who have said exactly the same thing that you're saying right now, and after they separate the dragons to different tanks and move them to different rooms or at the very least stack them so they cannot see each other again, both dragons start to improve almost immediately.

Bearded Dragons in the wild are completely solitary lizards, they never, ever stay together, and you'll never see more than one at a time in the same exact place. The only time any dragons come together is when a male and a female come together to mate, and as soon as they are done doing that they separate. The female lays the eggs and leaves, and the babies hatch and separate. It's just how they live, and when we as pet owners force them to live together, not even in the vast Australian Desert but rather in a tiny little enclosed tank, we are putting them in a situation that is not only completely unnatural and uncomfortable to them, but that creates a constant, consistent stress on both or all of the dragons put together, and usually one is more stressed than the other. Either way, all dragons involved suffer greatly one way or another.

I've even see people who try to tell me that "my dragons love each other, they lay beside each other, lay on top of each other, lick each other, etc." and they have no idea that they are laying beside each other because one dragon is totally and completely dominating the other dragon. They silently compete for EVERYTHING, the best temperatures, the strongest UVB and UVA spots, the best insects, the best pieces of greens and veggies, the best spot to sleep, the best spot to climb and bask on, etc. Everything. And we can't see it, we don't live that way. But we need to try to understand this issue BEFORE it effects their physical health.

At a year old they've unfortunately both gone through 85% or more of their growth and development, but they still will continue to grow up until around 2 years old. And their bone density and muscle mass can always be improved, as can any neurological deficits that either of them have developed as a result of this constant stress and domination. I cannot tell you how many physically stunted Bearded Dragons we've seen on this forum, every day, every week, every month, hundreds and hundreds every year due to them being housed with another dragon and their well-meaning, well-intentioned owners being certain that this cohabitation is absolutely not the problem.

In this instance you have to ask yourself a few questions, if you truly care about your dragons as you say you do, which I'm very certain you do: Is it possible that keeping them together is the cause of their physical/health issues, since it completely and totally goes against the way they live in their natural, wild environment? Is it fair for me to force them to live together inside a little tank, when they don't ever live together in the vast, open, free Australian Desert? Is their UVB lighting adequate? Are their temperature zones within the proper ranges? Is their diet proper and adequate? Do I give them proper Calcium and Multivitamin supplementation? Are their lights on for a long enough photoperiod every single day? Am I using a solid substrate and not every using any harmful loose substrates? And if the answers to all of these questions about my husbandry are yes, and if I've made sure that the artificial environment that I've created for them is adequate and comfortable for them, then why at a year old are they both stunted in growth? Why are they having these issues when all of the external factors that can effect their growth and development are right in line with what they should be? And why are my 2 dragons having these issues, when other dragons kept in the same, well-controlled, well-maintained environments by themselves do not have these issues? What answer to their issues is left?

I'm not even going to ask you about your husbandry, or what UVB light you have, how it is mounted, what your 3 temperature zones are, or what their diet/supplementation schedules are like, because I don't need to, as if they are housed together and are having growth and development issues as you've described, then I know what the problem is without question, and I know how to immediately fix the problem...you owe it to your dragons to at the very least set up a second tank with the same strong, adequate UVB lighting and the same correct temperature zones, keep them from being able to even see each other either by stacking their tanks or by putting one of them in an entirely separate room (this is the best option, as they can still smell and hear each other even if they can't see each other in the same room), and keeping them in their own, separate environments for at least a month, and seeing what happens. I would bet everything I own that they will greatly improve, almost immediately once separated and not feeling like they each have to constantly be competing for everything they need to live...

Ty guys they have a type of uvb they been using ever since I had them, sand is Walnut grounds and seems good but like I said I now know that housing 2 can cause stress but why would it happen now I have 50 gallon tank its giant and has so much space and when they had an smaller tank they were active still and eating it's been going on for so long I seriously don't think it's them I use to think so to but they never been stressed over each other, and always had space and getting an extra tank means more lights which would be allot of money to separate them I will find out if I can get a divder, the uvb light the lights I've got have always been the same they act like each doesn't exist so they never seem stressed one never ate More than the other or never bullied over water or Green. But they do seem to get the food the other has missed and I'll see if I can divde them though but I think It be hard since they both have to bask for the same light. ty And one did eat some greens today and took a dump but This is weird how I've never been advised this either way no one has told me to beardies we're bad to house would go to pet stores and experienced lizard owners there show picture s over there beardies in the same tank and had them since babies and when showed me that picture those beardies we're huge but yeah so the tank Now I know YouTube videos should never be a place to relay 100 percent source but Eve n in the videos with people housing 2 never shared this I don't know why this was never warned no told to me I AM NOT SAYIng I Followed hat they did on YouTube just pointing this out I was never told or ran across this Thank you for telling me this now, now that I know I'll have to figure something out any ideas without wasting more money for a new tank/ everything else just for one
beardie?

Hi Winner, can you post a few pics of Grapfroot + Calibur as well as their set up ? Here's how :
https://www.beardeddragon.org/useruploads/ Then use the XIMG to upload them

Petco has a 1 dollar per gallon sale going on, i suggest you take advantage of this and get another enclosure to separate them. Also you may not see it but they are very stressed, every single day they live in fear of each other but hide it. They dont exactly show emotion like a cat, dog, human would. They have different ways of showing it and its very hard to actually see the problem before one gets seriously injured, which could mean death, loosing limbs, loosing their tail in a fight anything is possible to go wrong with two beardies in such a small tank. 50 gallons is not large at all.

If they dont kill themselves first your substrate will, and possibly they are already suffering from the damage it has on their insides. Ground walnut shells are actually very sharp. When indigested it can cause internal bleeding from ripping up their insides and then leading them to dying, it can also get in their eyes and make them go blind. That is one of the worst substrates next to calci-sand and vita-sand. All particle substrates should not be used, you need either tile, non adhesive shelf liner or paper towels. I can provide pictures if needed to see what damage it can cause along with links about it.

Ty I will figure this out but these are the sand that seems recommend for beardies, zilla's desert blend and it's said to be good for them does this mean I'll have to buy extra pair of lights a new tank And etc? Is there another way without using to much money? And there is no sharp dust it's all grounded good. I'll send pics when they wake up.

Things that are recommended can kill. They only care about one thing and that is money, making money off of the bad product you by, that then hurts your animal and then you spend hundreds of dollars in vet bills to only have your animal die due to improper research and lies. Petstores are the number one reason animals die within the first year or so. They give off horrible advice, literally some will tell you to keep a beta fish or a gold fish in a fish bowl with no heater/filter etc which is why goldfish and beta fish only live a few months with petstore advice.

The natural habitat they have doesnt even have sand, if it does its very little. Lets say theres grass outside, its a nice warm sunny day theres tons of sticks, logs everything that resembles a nice habitat for a lizard in a forest of sorts. Thats basically what a bearded dragons natural habitat is. However there are also parts of Australia that are more open and "desert" looking than others, however that would resemble more of a sun baked earth texture that gives off the appearance of hard packed sand. The sad thing is in order to replicate the natural habitat you'd probably have to have a lot of money or live in austailia and the part where central bearded dragons are from to have a large outdoor enclosure or a very large indoor enclosure thats tall, tons of floor space, basically a very large enclosure where theres room to climb and such which would cost tons of money to build.

And yes you would have to buy new lights (you may already need new lights for the tank you have now) and a new tank. Unless you want to be a irresponsible owner and risk the life of a living animal just because you didnt do enough research on the species and then spend hundreds of dollars in vet bills. And possibly going to a exotic vet because you may not know that exotic vets kill reptiles most of the time which is why you need to know where a reptile specialist vet is in your area before (probably) purchasing a reptile. Which a exotic vet could cause even more problems because they dont know what they are actually doing so then you spend even more money trying to help your animal live, again to only have it die because you didnt want to give a proper habitat to them or separate them.

I may come off as rude and harsh but this is a living animal we are talking about, not just some object.

Thanks you ? I'll get new sand see if I can get a new tank I'll see if I can lights

I think you may have let what i said fly completely over your head for the substrate part....

You do not, what so ever want sand as a substrate. Go with paper towels, tile, or non adhesive shelf liner that wont cause death, eye damage, impaction, or fungal infections in the readily available tanks that most people use because half the time those tanks are less than 75 gallons, and even then with larger tanks sand should not be used as then you'd probably want to create a more natural environment.

Ok so mean like carpet and etc I sand and etc because I didn't catch what you meant I thought you were talking about the type, of sand, and usually I seen older post you guys seem allot nicer, I would ask if you can word things in a less rude manner saying "completely fly over your head" make sure it seem a bit rude although I am pretty sure you didn't mean it in that way but I am taking your advice and thank I would ask if please be more patient with me although I may seen like a bit because of how I treat my beardies but that why I am here I am here for help thanks for that help peace I'll have more info when it's time for beardies to wake up ??

Ok thanks everyone for the advice I'll start by taking the sand out and putting in green carpet and I'll make sure to change the set up Thanks guys. ? Set up meaning tank and etc of course. Not sure if I will give updates since I only needed help and I got that so I am gonna try what I was suggested to do ty guys very much bye and thanks again ?

I do have one question do I have to buy a new tank if I get a divder?

Yes you'll still need a tank, both beardies need at very a least a 36x18x18 enclosure each, or around that amount of space each.

Also sorry for being a bit rude, it was really late last night (2 am) so i was a bit sleep deprived.

Is ok ? and alright for now I'll use newspaper for the tank for now they will have to stay together just for a bit though until I get more of this sorted they seem very active and healthy but seem only about the size of the palm of my hand which is big but it isn't an adult size, I have an old tank it looks small for one beardie on the. 50 is bigger so it's unfair to put one in a smaller tank and one in a bigger one so I'll to figure something out because I don't think I can buy another one due to well it costing to much at the time but I can make this work. But they both seem fine just find food rather not there interest grapefroot has grey scales showing on his or her hand which means it can she'd which is good, I think they both wanna eat it different things I don't have right now so they will have to wait I'll try dubias I know they'll eat that but I have split it between them so I take one out of the tank for a bit to feed the other. Ty you that's it for now