Morphs as I understand them!!!!

Hi All!!!!!
I get alot of questions about what morph is my dragon, and in most cases I cant answer the person do to not knowing the bloodlines. However I have found that the average person is confusing color or breeder names with morphs. Almost all dragons in the states are of the species/genus of Pogona vitticeps or the common name of The central or inland bearded dragon.
Names that are often confused with morphs are Chris Allen red, cawley red, citrus, sandfire, and way to many more to list. These names are simply descriptions of colors or denotes the breeders who produced them.
Actual morphs consist of Translucent, Hypo, Leucistic, Leatherback, American Smoothie, Silkback, Silverback's, witblits, and Dunners. I will mention The paradox morph produced by Josh at Phantom dragons, but i know very little about it to be honest.
These morphs can be combined to create different variations of these morphs with some amazing looking results. Now just a quick word about "het's" This is an animal that has the genetic code of the above mentioned morphs, but the do not show the physical traits. A het hypo bred to a hypo will yield mostly hypo babies. A het hypo bred to a normal dragon will yield normal dragons. Im not going into the percentages....lol.
Translucent dragons have some very distinct features. Including black eyes, see through skin and an almost gummy like appearance around the spikes. I have found over the years that breeding 2 trans adults together can yield some unpleasant results and I never recommend doin it.
Hypo is short for hypomelanistic. Long story short is a lack of black or dark pigments in the skin, and generally clear nails. Pastel dragons are usually produced from hypo stock.
Leucistic dragons are simply very white hypo dragons. A true leucistic dragon does not exist and in most cases are sold as marketed leucistic.
Leatherbacks made their way over to the states from Italy. To put it simply they are much smoother and have smaller amounts of spikes. They are a co dominate gene meaning you breed a normal to a leather you will still get leathers. Breed 2 leathers together you get silkbacks and leathers and normals. Silkbacks have skin and no scales and require some additional care.
Witblits are from Africa and have no pattern, past that I just dont know more.
Silverbacks are from Japan and are also paternless.
Dunners are new and are produced by Kevin Dunn. Their scales go in different directions and thats all I know.
The paradox is also fairly new and is out of translucent genetics but again dont have alot of details.

Now here is MY disclaimer. I do not know all nor do I claim to. This is not set in stone and is info I am sharing as I understand it....lol

Thank you for this post Tom, I am sure it will help a lot of people. It helped me!

I had a question though. I have seen the term Italian leather back and normal leatherback thrown around. I told someone that is just a marketing term and they are both the same.

Is there really a difference between an "italian leatherback" and a leatherback? Or is it just a marketing term like I thought?

-Brandon

Leatherbacks are leatherbacks in my opinion. American smoothies are just leathers produced here. That explanation came right from Chris Allen. The original leathers came from Italy hence Italian leatherbacks. Im also told there is a recessive leatherback gene but I havent come across it.

Alright thanks for the clarification Tom.

-Brandon

You said something about not recommending producing two trans together. What sort of things have you seen happen?

Also, I have talked to Josh about Paradox before, this is his explanation copied off his facebook page between myself and him:
Josh Dovenbarger These paradox dragons are a random mutation. I cannot produce them consistantly. It's just something that pops out here and there. "Paradox" is a term used for unexplained patterning/color that contradicts with the normal patterning/color.
Yesterday at 12:29am · Like

CJ Brimmer So every now and then one will just hatch out? Weird. Is there certain pairings that produce more than others?
Yesterday at 12:31am · Like

Josh Dovenbarger Exactly. I do notice that all the paradox dragons I have bred have had both trans and hypo genetics in them. There is no combination that I know so far that will consistantly make them.
Yesterday at 12:41am · Like

CJ Brimmer Have you bred two paradox dragons together? Also, Thank you for answering my questions. I know you are a busy guy.
Yesterday at 12:44am · Like

Josh Dovenbarger I have bred them together a few times with not much luck at producing another one. About the same as I would get breeding two double hets together. Its also something that develops with age, usually after the second shed. No problem.. any time.
Yesterday at 12:51am · Like
If you don't know what a paradox dragon looks like, find him on FB. He has the coolest one I've ever seen for his profile pic.

Low hatch rate, low survival rate, and genetic mutations.

TheWolfmanTom":279e707f said:

Low hatch rate, low survival rate, and genetic mutations.

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Thanks tom, I wanted to get to hypo trans and breed them together. I now am looking for hypo trans and hypo het for trans.

Thats the way to go. Trans to het trans.
I have seen quite a few of Josh's paradox dragons. They are unique.

I wish he sold them, but then again I would hate to see how much they would run since they are so rare. Those Dunner dragons are very weird. I don't understand how that would happen. The scales on the tail and belly run opposite directions. Josh said they feel like cats tongue lol.

midmichicer":14iwhygf said:

I wish he sold them, but then again I would hate to see how much they would run since they are so rare. Those Dunner dragons are very weird. I don't understand how that would happen. The scales on the tail and belly run opposite directions. Josh said they feel like cats tongue lol.

Click to expand...

I think it was marked at like 5 grand at the san diego show.. Definitely a crazy looking dragon.

TheWolfmanTom":14iwhygf said:

Leatherbacks are leatherbacks in my opinion. American smoothies are just leathers produced here. That explanation came right from Chris Allen. The original leathers came from Italy hence Italian leatherbacks. Im also told there is a recessive leatherback gene but I havent come across it.

Click to expand...

Sounds like a name being confused with a morph then..


Thanks for clearing a few things up... I had been wondering about smoothies too.. For most of the morphs this really helped clear things up for me -

http://www.mbdragons.eu/en/genetica.html

I check that site a lot too.$5,000 for a bearded dragon, jeeze.

There was two different lines of leatherback that pretty much came out at the same time. American(smoothie) leatherback, and Italian leatherback. Italian leatherbacks gained way more popularity because they are way more smooth, uniform, and healthier(at the time) than the american leather line. Many breeders purchased american leathers when they first came around, then later phased them out. Thats why we no longer see a whole lot of them, and why many now are just being called "leatherback", instead of "italian leatherback". Most all of the leathers out there for sale are Italian leathers. Anna(AC reptiles) origionally sold her line as "leatherback", not smoothie. The name was changed by another breeder to "smoothie", to differentiate the two lines. Smoothie and american leatherback are the exact same thing.

I have pics of the recessive form of leatherback on my FB page. These only have a smooth torso, the rest of the body has normal spiney scales. I have been working on these for a while, and starting to offer the first ones this year. We will be seeing more of these soon

Josh

Thanks Josh. I was waiting for you to chime in....lol

Thank you Josh, I appreciate you adding to that.

Seems as I was wrong than! :twisted: (unless for the most part, leatherbacks and Italian leatherbacks are virtually the same thing. But if its extremely obvious just point it out, I am a bit tired LOL!)

-Brandon

You weren't wrong at all brandon There are a lot of marketing terms out there. So many different names for the same thing.

Josh