Reanimating Hornworms (new pics - Pupae!)

[tyryce]

I am so glad I found this thread...maybe you can step me through a few things. I had two hornworms left over that were ready to pupate so I put them in a large glass jar with some potting soil in it. They buried into the potting soil. One buried in 2 weeks ago and the second one buried in about 1 week ago. Now I don't know what to do from here. From your info it looks like I need to set up a rearing box with the following:

25watt light source
host tomato plant
sugar water (Can I use a hummingbird feeder?)
Can the rearing box have a mesh screen front for air circulation?

Now if I set this up this weekend can i carefully dig out the pupae and place them into the rearing box? I noticed that yours are not in soil, do they have to be on anything special? (Like moist paper towel or something? Or can I leave them in the jar and put this jar in the rearing box with the lid off and place to pipe cleaners into the soil so the moths can climb out? or will they even come out of the soil...do I need to take the pupae out? Sorry about all the questions I am not clear on all of the steps.

Also how do you know if you have a male or female?

I hope I get lucky and have a male and female so that I can get eggs!

If you can provide some direction that would be great..Thanks.

 

[tyryce]

Sorry.. I had an after thought. If you do get eggs what do you put them in? Do you put them in the cups like you show. So the cups just have to have plastic mesh along the sides and the hornworm foodis placed at the bottom?

How long does uncooked hornworm chow last. I have some precooked but it probably won't last up until I get eggs (if I even do get any eggs).

 

[blondie098]

I got all our info from manducaproject . com -- they had a great little pdf to download on how to make the box. We used plastic vinyl (from the craft store, its in the "interfacing" section), and it worked great. The inside of the box held humidity and heat well. If you use a grow lite you need to add a small section (about 6x8) of screen on the top of the box. You could try the screen, but your pupae may dry out.

Even with the plant in there, and us watering the plant, we still misted our pupae daily (sometimes twice). plus we kept them on a damp paper towel, which I think helped too.

Our first set (pictured earlier in the thread) was morphed into pupae just wrapped in papertowel and put into individual containers with air holes. We just morphed 10 pupae by doing individual potting soil containers... 100% success!

So, based on that, I would do the following:
1. build your box (go to manducaproject and get the pdf, if you cannot find it let me know and I'll dig it outta my computer archive) -- it's a 12-pg pdf file on "rearing manduca"

2. carefully get your pupae out of the dirt and put on a papertowel on the bottom of your habitat... or you can gently pour the dirt & pupae out onto a towel... the dirt being spritzed may help hold some humidity. Just watch their little nose extension on the pupae -- it's very fragile, and if its damaged, they won't be able to eat.

(note: I think it was invictusrules that gave me the hint that they need to climb as soon as they hatch... so I wouldn't leave them in the glass jar, they may get trapped)

3. they hatch at around 21 days after they've turned into the brown-coated pupae shell, so be ready with food!

4. yes, we successfully used a hummingbird feeder, but also used a sippy cup with extra large holes punched into the lid... they hover above their nectar, and drop their loooooooong "tongue" into the liquid to drink. Just make sure you don't have an open cup container, they can fall in and drown!

5. The privacy panel is very important! Ours seemed to be shy if we left it up, a handtowel works if you cannot find dark plastic (we used black visqueen).

6. Check to see if you've got boys / girls :shock: :shock: :shock: (PG-13 dirty bug pics following!):

(if the image shrinks & is hard to read, you can right-click it and download it, or you can download a pdf page I made from the original pdf instrux (http://carlscalibration.com/dragons/pupaeboygirl.pdf)

Don't be afraid to ask questions! That's what these forum boards are all about! :mrgreen:

 

[blondie098]

oh, on the food -- the dry food will last 6-12 months (6 months in the cupboard, up to 12 months in the freezer) according to Rob at Greatlakes... but we double-bagged our baggies of HW chow before putting it in the freezer... and make sure you don't get condenation on the package of dry stuff if you're making a partial batch... it could ruin the powder.

You're a few weeks from moths hatching, and if boy/girl combo, you should have eggs within 2 days after the pair is together. We just carefully put them in a little plastic cup (little condiment portion cups available at restaurants/delis), and then transferred them into the new chowbins (like you get when you order worms online).

Rob at greatlakes sells empty habitat cups with the mesh screen stapled in, so you can make your own food when ready... we just pour the hot food in and let setup... it looks almost as good as what he sends us

Any other questions, let me know, happy to answer what I can... remember, I'm no expert, this has been all trial and error on our part, my kids are science nuts & wanted to dive in head first with bug breeding for our two beardies.

 

[tyryce]

Oh dear! I hadn't realized that the pupae need to be misted or kept moist. I just let them burrow into the soil and left them. I hope they are okay. I will see if I can get my supplies tomorrow then set everything up. You have been very helpful thanks. When you order eggs how long does it take to get them. When i ordered hornworms it took about 3 days for me to get them because the supplier is like 2 provinces away. I was thinking that maybe I should start with eggs but if they hatch too soon then I would probably lose a lot of them, what are your thoughts. I am just thinking because if i have ruined my pupae I would like to try again. I would just like to see the whole process.

Danielle

 

[blondie098]

Oh, they're probably fine since they've pupated in the soil -- but when you transfer them to the new habitat, you'll want to make sure they have a little moisture (wet is not good, slightly damp is proper). You can check them easily -- just hold them gently in the middle (like on each side, with their little loop tongue facing upward)... and very gently touch the sectioned part near their bottom... they will wiggle! :shock:

They're probably fine -- just don't let 'em get dried out from here on out...

Eggs hatch anywhere from 2-5 days after they are laid... usually on day 3 from our experience. and your moths will only live 7-14 days, the better your habitat setup, the longer they live.

Oh yeah, you can use a 3:1 or 4:1 water:sugar recipe, you boil it then let it get to room temp... keep it refrigerated (covered) and it'll keep in the fridge for 7-10 days or so. Or you can use the pre-made hummingbird red liquid food, that's what we fed last time, making sure the nectar didn't mold or spoil (changed every 2 days). But take care opening your door of your box once you've got moths, they can escape!

The moths are really pretty, and yes, they do sound like helicopters when they fly... the more you have in the box, the louder they are :mrgreen:

 

[Fallencomrade2008]

Im all out of HW food but i dont wanna fridge them, can they just eat dandylions or something like that? I want to feed them to my dragons in the next 2 or 3 days.

 

[blondie098]

I'm not sure what else you could give them (besides the HW chow), but do not introduce them to a tomato plant, the plant is toxic for dragon. I have seen from experience that if they run out of food, they become aggressive and cannabilistic -- so if you don't feed them off, they may bite each other.

You might separate them into their own containers (small little food containers) -- bit if they don't get eaten tomorrow, they may try to pupate.

 

[blondie098]

we're on round 2 and have learned some interesting new facts -- the female moths will lay a few eggs in their first day of life (5-12) --by day two they lay 50-75 eggs easily

We have 10 pupae, and 3 boys/2 girls have hatched... this was my morning surprise:
YAY! Lots o' EGGS!

We are using a couple different varieties of the tomato plants -- that way we have a backup if they don't like one plant or the other... check your plant carefully, they will lay singles, clusters, and on the stems, too. We have even found them stuck on the plantercup, too... and in the dirt. To avoid the pain of trying to get an egg out of the dirt, I cut a circle of baking parchment and made a "collar" for the plant. The eggs come off the parchment easily, and if I drop an egg during harvest, I don't have to dig it out of the dirt.

 

[fresnowitte]

Awesome! :mrgreen:
I still don't know where you find the time...I commed you...you are such a busy lady.
Just thinking of all the things you must get accomplished in a day makes me tired. :lol:

Again Congratulations!

 

[blondie098]

wowser -- day 1: 8 eggs ... day 2: 88 eggs ... day 3: 168 eggs ... day 4: 391 eggs (Barbara, I wish today was yesterday!!!) Yikes! We just had our first moth die off, but we've still got 6, and still have 3 waiting to hatch... wow, no wonder one moth can do so much damage to someone's garden! :shock:

BTW -- just a general clip of info that I am not sure if leisure gardeners know -- if you smoke, tomato plants are VERY sensitive to the tar/nicotine, so make sure you wash your hands very well before handling the plant! I know it can kill the plant, but not sure if the moths would shun the plant?

 

[blondie098]

BTW -- we are having so much luck with our manduca project, if someone wants to try it but is afraid of morphing them, let me know if there is interest in buying pupae? If anyone is interested, I can post a forsale thread?

 

[fresnowitte]

Sounds like your having to much fun with your Manduca project. :wink:
391 in a day that's wild! :shock:
I have the stuff for my larva box ready and waiting.

 

[blondie098]

Man, they really like the plant I had in there last night -- it's a "Jet Star" variety... I put it in again today, and the lights just went out about 1/2 hour ago... I already watched one female make about 40 deposits! They are so cool to watch, if you've got the room for a large box like this :mrgreen: the females flit around, find a spot, and curl their little bootie up under the leaf to place the eggs... after a little while, they'll rest for a few and resume.

When harvesting eggs, we go slow and hand-harvest (took me about 1/2 hour today for those 391 eggs) -- it's more accurate to get an idea of how many, and to double-check for hidden eggs... from what I understand, an adult hornworm can consume a plant in 1 day, so I don't want to lose my favorite host! :shock:

 

[blondie098]

Barbara, I was only kinda expecting 150-200 this morning, so imagine my surprise!!! Oh my, we'll have a heck of a group for round #3! Actually, I'd better get more food ordered -- I'm down to my last 1-1/2 pounds of dry chow! and these puppies will start hatching tomorrow (lay day 1)