Syringe w/water orally for hydrating. Aspiration concern

[Sherri]

Hi,
I have read numerous posts that say soaking in the bath *helps* but having water orally is best for hydration.

Our beardie will not drink water and does not eat greens. He has been on a lot of meds and is till on one and not feeling well. Not eating unless it is freshly shed dubia or babyfood *sigh*.

Today I decided to syringe feed him some water but I panic about it b/c of aspiration risk etc. He will not, has not ever taken the water from the syringe as he does babyfood or his meds.

I did the seperate the lips on the side thing to get the syringe in there and squeezed the water in as slowly as I could. About .2mls worth is all, maybe only .1 got in there now that I think about it.

I was hoping that he would get used to the feel of water and learn to like it, but again, I worry about squirting water in the side of his mouth and aspirating into his lungs. Yikes! I just realized that I did this from his left side which is where the glottis is...! Was that the worst idea?

He did not gag or cough or anything but I am afraid to do it again. I just want him better hydrated. He gets baths 5-6 times a week, each 10-20 minutes long and he has never tried the water regardless of how I try to make it appealing :roll:

So, what should I do?
Thanks,
Sherri

 

[lauraj1055]

I heard to put a little bit of apple juice to flavor the water, or I put their liquid multivitamins, just a touch of it to add flavor to the water.. and they will lick it off their noses then...

Mine never drink out of the bath either, and I was alwasy under the impression that a bath will hydrate them, but have learned otherwise by posts on here more recently...

 

[Sherri]

LOL, yes I tried the juice route. Did not go for it :roll: He loves cantelope so I tried adding a little of that also, no go. Stubborn little twirp JK!! Stubborn little cutie.

I do use liquid calcium but of course only once per day so that likely would not be enough. You know, I am thinking that we do not want to syringe feed water every day right? I am getting one of those small hamster water bottles. My humidity is always low and the good ones do not drip.

Trying to figure out how to train him to use it...since they use their tongue for everything. When he is better and eating well again maybe I will put some bugs on it and he will accidentally get some water. I thought of hiding it in a fake plant where he might lick the right spot sometime...but the last fake plant in there he ate *sigh*. Won't eat real greens but a fern looking FAKE green, yep.

I have been reading the same thing about baths. Maybe they only help when shedding, but I do know that his urates are a lot less chalky since soaking....so I do not know what to think :?

 

[lauraj1055]

Well, all I KNOW for a fact, is my friend who has beardies, (she is the one that got me addicted to them) gives them baths 2x a week.. she has never syringe fed them water, or misted etc... and she has had them going on 4 years... and one that she has is from a clutch of her male and female, so she raised it from a hatchling, and it is now 3 years old... and she has never had an issue with hydration... They do however eat their greens. Sometimes I think too much knowledge is not good, because where do you go with it? I gave my daughters friend a beardie for her bday in June.. (so about a month ago) they do not freak over every little thing like we do... they know what I have told them, and do as instructed, and let me tell you.. that thing is THRIVING!!! He has gained 100 grams in over a month being there and is 3x the size from when I gave him to her. I was SHOCKED :shock: when I went to see him. He is HUGE.. She bathes him 5x a week for 10 minutes each time... So.. who knows???? Phred seems to be fine, poops every day or every other day, always has great urates, and he gets a bath 3x a week.... Butters is doing awesome too, and she gets a bath 5x a week because she is still young... Ollie, well he's a whole different story.. :roll:

 

[AHBD]

Hi Sherri....I can see your concern, and I also uunderstand why there seems to be so much confusion about this. I personally use a spray bottle, not a syringe, and spray gently on the nose until they drink. My babies are trained that way, and all drink daily. I've raised 1000's that way. The older dragons drink every other day or so, but they all eat greens as well. The greens themselves are full of water [ up to 85 %]....just look how they shrivel up to nearly nothing when they dry out. So that explains why Laura's friend's dragons get adequate hydration [ as she mentioned in her post, plus they actually may drink a bit in the bath ] The reason why most people shy away from spraying is that they have the idea that you spray down the entire tank, which would raise humidity [ especially in the past when almost all owners used sand 12 - 15 years ago ] would be a risk for respiratory infections. So they get paranoid that any amount of water will cause a risk of r.i., and they read that dragon's absorb water through the vent, so they skip the oral hydration [ a big mistake for a dragon that doesn't eat greens or doesn't drink in the bath ] but in reality only a tiny amount of water will be absorbed in the vent, not enough to hydrate....otherwise they would never become dehydrated in the first place. If your dragon is taking baby food via syringe , then he's getting a lot of water with that, that's why he does not seem thirsty no doubt. You can always add extra water to the baby food...they don't need a whole lot, but they do need it regularly. But you don't need to "squirt" the water in his mouth if your'e nervous, just drip it on his nose. If he's thirsty, he should drink...or drip it while he's in the bath and he may learn to drink in there.

 

[Sherri]

Thank you AHBD

It will have to be patience then :roll: We have had him since May 10th and every single day without fail I have tried to get him to take water via syringe OR dropper...or off my finger etc. 3-5x per week he has been bathed hoping he would take a drink...all the water stimulation has not helped.

So, until he eats greens I will have to be patient and keep trying. Right now he is sick from meds (I hope it is the meds ) and will not eat his dubia unless freshly molted. That of course is hit and miss once in a while. He loves carrots so I soak them after I shave them so he gets a little water with them.

Once his treatment of Metronidazole is over on Sunday I will eventually have to stop the baby food hoping he will eat dubias on his own again and the whole water issue will come up again.

My only question now is; how much water should a 95 gram beardie have per day in mls? Knowing that will help tremendously.

Thank you again for helping.
Sherri

 

[Gail]

Jupiter won't drink either, not in the bath, from a syringe or by dripping/spraying his mouth. He has a lot of problems with dehydration and I have to force water in him as often as I can, he fights and I end up squirting a lot in his mouth all at once. He's never choked or aspirated. I'm about ready to start feeding a few bits of iceberg, I think it might be easier.
Bathing does help some, especially with his urates but he still need water orally to prevent him from getting all wrinkly.

 

[Sherri]

Hi Gail,
I remember you telling me Jupiter is not a water drinker either *sigh*. He also went off his greens for awhile, but he eats them again now, yes? Wish Razz would...he will eat carrots but that is not a replacement for water while on meds :roll: Maybe one day they will both surprise us and take a drink in the bath!

How is the new baby settling in?! I did not see a post on the name yet.....is there one? LOL

 

[MissT]

Have you tried different flavours of juices? Iv used blackcurrant and apple and blackcurrant with good success but not so much the apple - I mixed Kazi's baytril with blackcurrant and it seemed to help a little in getting him to take that. Iv also mixed pureed mango with water and given that to them on a spoon - I know its not the best form of hydration but at least it gets a little water into them. Huff is the only one who doesnt drink in the bath these days tho - Kazi didnt start drinking in the bath until he was about 2 years old but Phoebe has always taken a drink in the bath - so much so that I have to stop her some times otherwise she ends up gulping and sounding like a frog for the entire day!!

 

[Sherri]

LOL; sounding like a frog That is wonderful that she loves to drink!

Thank you, I have tried many different *flavorings* but stubborn little guy won't go for it :roll: I have to wonder if it is the *thinness* of water. His meds, acidopholiz and calcium are all a little thicker (syrupy) and have flavor so he takes them. Water, even flavored with his favorite things just drip down his chin *sigh*.

He loves carrots so I am now considering putting a couple drops of carrot juice in the dropper or syringe and see how that does, but eventually we do not want to do that everyday if possible LOL

 

[Gail]

Jupiter still isn't eating greens but is he doing much better since I took the cedar out of his cage, no name for the baby yet either. We had a puppy diagnosed with Parvo a couple days ago and have spent the last 2 days removing carpet and bleaching everything she may have touched. Not had a whole lot of time for the dragon, pretty much just been tossing food at them.
Hopefully she can come home today, our other puppy doesn't get it too and things can get back to normal soon.

 

[Sherri]

I am so very sorry about the puppy parvo I understand everything else will go aside for now...

 

[valcash]

The fact he is eating baby food is good, there is a lot of water in that.
To help him understand your dropper/syringe is a yummy thing try mixing in small amount of a 100% fruit juice to flavor the water.
Please be aware some Bearded Dragons can eat the syringe, plastic and glass. Yes, bite pieces off and consume them. Use syringes with caution. I have one that is special needs and requires frequent syringe feedings of special mixtures of vitamins/veggies/protein/calcium, does fine with them. Drinks in the bath as well from time to time. Will lick water off if a dropper is used as well. Great laid back huge guy. I have another who does not do good with any type of syringe feeding and has destroyed several and the last time ate parts of the syringe after biting it off. This is a pet Dragon that has been taken care of for years, just is a bit feisty. That dragon is no longer syringe fed ever of course due to possible impaction issues from chewing off pieces of the syringe which does present a problem as many medications (and probiotics) are given orally.

 

[MissT]

Please be aware some Bearded Dragons can eat the syringe, plastic and glass. Yes, bite pieces off and consume them. Use syringes with caution.

Kazi has a habit of doing this- once, at the vets, he ate a bit of a pen cap! He also attacks syringes- 2 days of critical care via syringe and it's well chewed up!!! He also tried to eat his water syringe tonight- he was very thirsty and took 3ml! I was so petrified of him aspirating but he's so dehydrated and I need to get as much into him as i can! Also, on this point, forcing their mouths open can result in bitten fingers- believe me it hurts! Kazi couldn't even hold his head up last Thursday but still managed to slice my finger open! In general, care must always be taken when fiddling in the mouth area of your babies!! Hehe!

 

[Sherri]

Hi, I recently purchased those soft rubber coated baby spoons (not the hard plastic type) and have been using them the past 3 days, just after my original post LOL

Even liquid works b/c I just very easily and slowly tip the spoon to drop a little on his nose the same as with a syringe and dropper.

Today it finally got to the point where he recognizes it and will wait for it (well, except for the acidopholiz :roll: I had to do the syringe thing for that. I just pull the side of his lip down and squirt a little bit in, I DO NOT put the syringe in his mouth, just sort of squirt a little on the gums and he will always open his mouth and I continue squirting without the syringe ever going between the teeth lol. Took a little practice but we have it down now, of course I hold him well in one hand and use my thumb to pull his lip down.

I hope that is a clear enough picture! :shock: But for everything else I do use the soft rubber baby spoon! Works like a charm and he will not be able to break off pieces. Hope this helps!

Sherri