AHBD":i9fpp68e said:Hi Cloudy, I can see a dark color under his leg but it's really hard to make out what it is . Can you hold him in the air with his legs dangling and get a direct shot of it ? I don't see anything on his beard at all, maybe it's just the angle ?
There were 3 different types of "things" in the growth. He never told me whether or not they were all bacteria or not, and I've never heard of them. Pseudomonas aeruginosa, Enterobacter sp., and Staph. aureus. I've been looking for good reptile vets, and most of the vets in Miami that will accept reptiles don't have great reviews. Is there a site that lists certified reptile vets? The first vet prescribed an antibiotic and a topical triple antibiotic cream, but if the growths are fungi, then antibiotics won't help - I know that. The second one just gave me vitamins and said it would take a long time to heal; I know reptiles have amazingly slow metabolisms but I'm concerned because, instead of slowly healing, it's quickly getting worse. And I actually have been giving him iodine baths regularly. His enclosure is stupidly clean right now, and he has a cool area that is about 82F. He moves there regularly, so I placed his UVB light there instead of next to his basking lamp, and his basking area is 113F.EllenD":2lv2cvwe said:You said that the first vet did a skin scraping...What was the result? Did he tell you why he was prescribing an antibiotic? What antibiotic(s) was he given, and how long was he on them? Did either of the vets you have seen suggest it may be a fungal infection? Viral? I'm confused as to why the first vet actually did a skin scraping, which is the first test that should have been run, and then put him on an antibiotic without explaining why. Obviously an antibiotic would only treat a bacterial infection, not a fungal infection, viral infection, parasite, etc. Any vet would know this, so I'm wondering if he found bacteria in the skin scraping and if so, what bacteria it was. If he wasn't a certified Reptile vet with bearded dragon experience, it's possible that he saw normal bacteria that all bearded dragons carry on their skin and prescribed a broad-spectrum antibiotic to try to kill it, which would not only not help the lesions but may also kill off normal, good bacteria and upset his system.
I think the first thing you need to do is find a Board-Certified Reptile Vet with a lot of bearded dragon experience, there has to be at least one really good certified Reptile vet in the greater Miami/Fort Lauderdale area. I'd do a search online for a very good reptile vet, look at credentials and ratings, and then call and ask questions about their bearded dragon experience. And make sure to tell them that this has been progressively getting worse over weeks and months, that he's seen 2 other vets, been given antibiotics, and it's getting worse and worse. They hopefully will get him in quickly that way. And if you never got the results of the skin scraping that the first vet did you need to call them ASAP, get a copy of the test results, and ask specifically why he was put on the antibiotic he was given. Don't ever be afraid to ask questions, and ALWAYS get a copy of all test results, his complete chart with notes on his diagnosis, etc.
In the meantime you need to completely sanitize his enclosure and everything in it. Throw out all rocks, wood, etc. that is porous. You need to order or find some F10 (bleach will work in the meantime) to disinfect his enclosure, both inside and out. Use only disposable substrates from now on like paper towels, and change them often. You need to soak his enclosure in a mixture of the F10 or bleach and hot water, rinse well, then dry well. Even the stand his enclosure is on. And keep all other animals away.
As for him, no more baths, if it is a fungal infection then dampness will spread it. What you can try while waiting to get into the certified Reptile vet is buying either Betadine (iodine) or Hibiclens at Walmart, along with a few gallons of sterile water. Mix the Betadine or Hibiclens with the sterile water, like 1 part antiseptic to 2-3 parts water, then heat it until warm but not hot (don't want to burn him). If using Betadine the solution will look like a weak iced tea, the Hibiclens is pink, so the solution will be very faintly pink with some soap bubbles. Both are great antiseptics that are used in the scrub packs in hospital operating rooms and they kill everything. Soak him in this warmed solution for 15-20 minutes twice a day, then dry him really well. Then also buy a topical antifungal medication at Walmart (or any drug store, I find Walmart cheaper), I'd start with Lotrimin or the generic Walmart or store brand of Lotrimin. It's a pretty broad-spectrum antifungal cream. Apply it sparingly to each lesion, just enough to cover each lesion and rub it in as well as you can. I'd do the antiseptic soaks and apply the topical antifungal cream twice a day. Other than these treatments keep both your bearded dragon and his enclosure completely dry at all times. Clean and dry is going to be very important for both him and his enclosure and anything he touches. Also keeping his basking temperature high enough but still having a temperature gradient from a cool side between 75-80 degrees so he can get out of the heat is important.
Keep in mind that the soaks in the antiseptic and the topical antifungal cream are only meant to try and slow the progression of the fungal infection, but only If it's a fungal infection! The Betadine or Hibiclens soaks will kill both bacteria and fungi, but they won't "cure" him, only slow the external, topical infection if it's bacterial or fungal. If it's a viral infection that he has then none of this will do much of anything except keeping the external lesions from developing infections secondary to the actual disease that's causing them. The only way you're going to cure this is to take him to a certified Reptile vet ASAP, get the cause of the lesions diagnosed, and treat the Infection with aggressive medications. I'm hoping it's not Yellow Fungus, it doesn't present like Yellow Fungus in the typical fashion, but that really doesn't mean anything. What most people don't understand about fungal infections is that they are growing both internally and externally, but all we can see are the external representations of the infection. So a lot of people will try to get away with treating Yellow Fungus with only topical creams, while the fungal infection is raging internally. So it's vital that you get him to a certified Reptile vet who will run the appropriate tests to diagnose and then treat him.
I haven't been able to find a vet yetDrache613":38rr6aas said:Hello,
Let us know how your dragon is doing & if you were able to find another vet.
Tracie
See http://www.hyperdrug.co.uk/F10-Germicidal-Barrier-Ointment/productinfo/F10GERMBO/Skin, scale and feather decontamination: Treat the patient by spraying, soaking or washing with a 1:250 F10 Antiseptic Solution
..
..
. Leave to air dry.
Full body emersion in a 1:1000 solution has been shown to be effective at treating skin problems in some species of reptile and amphibians.
F10® Germicidal Barrier Ointment is a multi-purpose broad spectrum preparation effective against a wide range of bacteria, fungi, viruses and spores. The F10 actives are presented in an easily applied preparation containing lanoline emollient which helps to maintain and restore skin viability and assist the ointment to adhere to the skin surface to form an effective antimicrobial barrier. It is ideal as a topical application to treat and help prevent re-infection in a number of clinical situations either alone or in conjunction with associated therapies. The F10® Germicidal Barrier Ointment has been shown to maintain 100% residual action after 5 days.
Uses of F10® Germicidal Barrier Ointment
Superficial skin lesions, burns and open or contaminated wounds:
Where appropriate first clean and flush the lesion with F10® Antiseptic Solution. Aseptically blot dry. F10® Germicidal Barrier Ointment can now be directly applied.
The Barrier Ointment is effective in both superficial lesions and deep penetrating wounds.
HiEllenD":12ehy4nt said:Hey, just a few questions that I know my vet will ask:
1.) Except for the black lesions (and the red, though I can't really tell what the morphology of the red stuff is), he is acting normally? He's eating normally, not list any weight? He's not at all lethargic? Has he shown any other signs or symptoms besides the external lesions since the lesions appeared?
2.) How old is he? He is definitely male?
3.) What basking light(s) do you use (Brand, model, and wattage)? What UVB light do you use (Brand, model, size, and type (coil, compact, tube)/(T8, T5)? How long has he been under these specific lights? Did you change his lighting or get new bulbs around the time these lesions appeared?
4.) I believe you said you first noticed the lesions in February? Prior to February did he ever show any other skin lesions or issues?
5.) What parts of his body does he currently have the lesions on? Are the lesions segregated to a specific part of his body?
6.) Besides the Betadine soaks and topical antibiotic ointment, what other topical meds and home remedies have you tried? What antibiotics did the first vet prescribe?
****Maybe it's just the photo, but you seem to say that these black lesions are mostly located on his back legs, and it looks like he's missing one toenail on his right back foot and ALL of his toenails on his left back foot. Is that correct? Did that happen before or after the lesions appeared?****
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