Odd swaying/head bobbing behaviour

[Faventia]

Hi everyone, this is the same Helio I previously posted about with the pseudogout issues. Haven't had any further news or updates on the pseudogout front or visits to the vet just yet as treatment for my brain tumour hasn't been going the best and I've only just gotten home from hospital this last week. Partner has been doing his best though to continue giving her the daily tramadol + allopurinol Helio has been prescribed (tho admittedly with everything going on he has missed days here & there).

One thing I have noticed since coming home is this odd looking swaying/head-bobbing behaviour she's doing occasionally. She seems to walk/get around normally, but as soon as she starts to head bob she also starts this swaying side-to-side behaviour. Once she does a bit of head-bobbing with the swaying she also seems to sway a bit when moving around afterwards for a while, if that makes any sense?? Sometimes it can be quite dramatic in the way she throws her head, other times less so. I don't know if I'm doing a good job describing it, I'm sorry! Tried my best to catch a bit of it on video for y'all to see, so while these clips aren't perfect I hope they help :/

(sorry for the slight shaking! I've got a bad tremor from the meds I'm on )

Helio 1

https://imgur.com/a/xP62C6G

Helio 2

https://imgur.com/a/kTde5Bk

Helio 3

https://imgur.com/a/z8lTkhE

Helio 4

https://imgur.com/a/JxuFb8b

Helio 5

https://imgur.com/a/2Yjigp8

Helio 6 Helio 6
Helio 7 Helio 7
Helio 8 Helio 8

 

[xp29]

Could it be the meds making her disoriented? It took a second to pick out but after i saw it she seemed like her balance was off.
@Drache613 is probably going to be the most help.

 

[Faventia]

Could it be the meds making her disoriented? It took a second to pick out but after i saw it she seemed like her balance was off.
@Drache613 is probably going to be the most help.

Ooh, that might be the case (or at least contributing to the issue??). Partner says she still does it a little off meds, but when off meds it's only when she's actually doing the proper headbobs that she does the swaying (not randomly whilst walking around like you can see in a couple of the clips) + is less exaggerated in general. Could/Would there be enough tramadol in her system to make her balance a bit wonky if she hasn't had it for a day or two??

Wondering if maybe because she's been taking it for over a month now there's still some in her system (or potential withdrawals?) even when having missed a days dose. Might explain why my partner claims he still notices it a bit on days he's forgotten or been late to give it to her??? Idk, but it's definitely something that's started whilst I was in hospital which means after we began her on the tramadol

 

[KarrieRee]

Ooh, that might be the case (or at least contributing to the issue??). Partner says she still does it a little off meds, but when off meds it's only when she's actually doing the proper headbobs that she does the swaying (not randomly whilst walking around like you can see in a couple of the clips) + is less exaggerated in general. Could/Would there be enough tramadol in her system to make her balance a bit wonky if she hasn't had it for a day or two??

Wondering if maybe because she's been taking it for over a month now there's still some in her system (or potential withdrawals?) even when having missed a days dose. Might explain why my partner claims he still notices it a bit on days he's forgotten or been late to give it to her??? Idk, but it's definitely something that's started whilst I was in hospital which means after we began her on the tramadol

Tramadol will make you dizzy-- did we go over the UVB your using for him?

 

[xp29]

Reptiles respond slowly to meds and heal slow. My best guess is that the meds cause it. It takes a couple days for anastasia to wear off, so probably the same for other stuff to.

 

[Faventia]

Tramadol will make you dizzy-- did we go over the UVB your using for him?

Believe I've got it all in my profile, but it's been double checked by reptile vet and breeder. Basking light has recently been replaced, but the other one is due to be replaced sometime this month.

X-rays thankfully showed no signs of MBD, but calcium and D3 were sky high on last bloods so we've stopped supplementing Calcium/D3 for now until they drop a bit or kidneys improve.

 

[KarrieRee]

Believe I've got it all in my profile, but it's been double checked by reptile vet and breeder. Basking light has recently been replaced, but the other one is due to be replaced sometime this month.

X-rays thankfully showed no signs of MBD, but calcium and D3 were sky high on last bloods so we've stopped supplementing Calcium/D3 for now until they drop a bit or kidneys improve.

The Aqua One sounds like a fish light- please change it out for a better quality bulb is there a hood that the bulb is in? You want a fixture / hood
Reptisun 10.0 T 5 or a Arcadia 12% 24 watt -- leave in the tank w/ a distance of 12-15 inches directly over your basking decor --

 

[Faventia]

The Aqua One sounds like a fish light- please change it out for a better quality bulb is there a hood that the bulb is in? You want a fixture / hood
Reptisun 10.0 T 5 or a Arcadia 12% 24 watt -- leave in the tank w/ a distance of 12-15 inches directly over your basking decor --

Not sure if that's the brand the hood is in or the actual bulb (don't have it in front of me to check rn, but I believe that's the UVA light), but the brand specialises in both aquatics and reptiles. Their reptile stuff is usually boxes/branded as 'Reptile One', but the items still have the Aqua One logo on em'. Local stores don't carry Reptisun or Arcadia brands here, not sure if that's Australia wide or just not available in my local town, but have searched for those previously as I'm aware that those two brands are treated as the gold standard. When we replace the UVA light this month I'll see if I can order one of those two online or find whatever the Aussie equivalent is

Distances are all correct and we remeasure them every time we play with either of our girls decor to make sure it's still in the correct range.

Only issue we're having right now around lights/heating is because it's Spring the days are getting to 30°c+ and we're struggling to keep the tanks cool enough. Helio's tank temperatures are around 38-41°c on the warm side (34-35°c on the cool side), but our other girls tank is hitting 45°c at her basking spot even with the ceramic heater off and only her basking light + UVA light going. Her cool side sits at 36-37°c, and under her hide it's 35°c which is where she goes during the middle of the day atm. We've been having to keep her cage doors open and room fans at max in an effort to cool down her tank :/

 

[KarrieRee]

Not sure if that's the brand the hood is in or the actual bulb (don't have it in front of me to check rn, but I believe that's the UVA light), but the brand specialises in both aquatics and reptiles. Their reptile stuff is usually boxes/branded as 'Reptile One', but the items still have the Aqua One logo on em'. Local stores don't carry Reptisun or Arcadia brands here, not sure if that's Australia wide or just not available in my local town, but have searched for those previously as I'm aware that those two brands are treated as the gold standard. When we replace the UVA light this month I'll see if I can order one of those two online or find whatever the Aussie equivalent is

Distances are all correct and we remeasure them every time we play with either of our girls decor to make sure it's still in the correct range.

Only issue we're having right now around lights/heating is because it's Spring the days are getting to 30°c+ and we're struggling to keep the tanks cool enough. Helio's tank temperatures are around 38-41°c on the warm side (34-35°c on the cool side), but our other girls tank is hitting 45°c at her basking spot even with the ceramic heater off and only her basking light + UVA light going. Her cool side sits at 36-37°c, and under her hide it's 35°c which is where she goes during the middle of the day atm. We've been having to keep her cage doors open and room fans at max in an effort to cool down her tank :/

Can you order on line from Amazon.?

 

[J4ckdaw-]

The Aqua One sounds like a fish light- please change it out for a better quality bulb is there a hood that the bulb is in? You want a fixture / hood
Reptisun 10.0 T 5 or a Arcadia 12% 24 watt -- leave in the tank w/ a distance of 12-15 inches directly over your basking decor --

The wattage of the bulb depends on the size, right? So it wouldn’t hurt to have a higher one if you have a longer bulb. Mine is a 39w but it is 36” long, there weren’t any 24w ones of that size.

 

[Faventia]

Can you order on line from Amazon.?

Just quickly checked Amazon, and with fastest delivery it'll be a month before soonest arrival time (+ $30 shipping, and it's already $162 before shipping ). Hopefully will be able to find local brand equivalent when we've got to replace the UVA this month or cheaper way to order that specific brand if y'all feel that only those two are adequate

 

[KarrieRee]

Just quickly checked Amazon, and with fastest delivery it'll be a month before soonest arrival time (+ $30 shipping, and it's already $162 before shipping ). Hopefully will be able to find local brand equivalent when we've got to replace the UVA this month or cheaper way to order that specific brand if y'all feel that only those two are adequate

Those two - let me get another website posted see if they ship to you
Zoo Med ReptiSun T5 HO 10.0 UVB 24w-39w

Arcadia D3+ Reptile Lamp T5 12% UVB

Fluorescent lights that dose your reptile with UV light Energy-efficient and generates more like per Watt For desert reptile species

www.reptiles.swelluk.com

 

[Drache613]

Hello,

Sorry, my computer wont play the video, but I'll
try again tomorrow.
Based on your description of her behavior, it
sounds like a combination of a few things. If your
UVB is not strong enough, or it isn't a UVB light
that will lead to low calcium levels in the blood.
Did they do a blood test I am assuming to have
diagnosed gout?
Sometimes D3 can cause toxicity if given in excess
because it's fat soluble & it is stored.
For now, definitely stop giving any D3 as suggested
by the vet to let her system flush that out.
The tramadol has a tendency to cause marked
side effects & dizziness is one of the issues listed.
Is she eating very well?
Be sure to keep her well hydrated while on the
Allopurinol, too.

Tracie

 

[Faventia]

Hello,

Sorry, my computer wont play the video, but I'll
try again tomorrow.
Based on your description of her behavior, it
sounds like a combination of a few things. If your
UVB is not strong enough, or it isn't a UVB light
that will lead to low calcium levels in the blood.
Did they do a blood test I am assuming to have
diagnosed gout?
Sometimes D3 can cause toxicity if given in excess
because it's fat soluble & it is stored.
For now, definitely stop giving any D3 as suggested
by the vet to let her system flush that out.
The tramadol has a tendency to cause marked
side effects & dizziness is one of the issues listed.
Is she eating very well?
Be sure to keep her well hydrated while on the
Allopurinol, too.

Tracie

UVB light is good, I believe. This is the current basking light we have in their tanks: Exo Terra Basking Bulb

Calcium blood levels are actually high (potentially excessive calcium in diet or vet suggested she may not have been born with the best kidneys??? Other girl who was from a breeder- but same age and had for same length of time- doesn't have any indications of pseudogout or the like). Could be excess toxicity though because the supplement powder we were dusting with is a D3 & Calcium combo- but then I'm not sure why our other girl hasn't been effected or what we would need to do to lower D3 levels if it's causing toxicity. But yeah, definitely stopping that stuff till her kidneys recover enough to begin doing their job again + flush all the excess out.

Blood tests done two months ago showed "marked elevation in
CK: muscle trauma
UA and Ca: pseudogout, rena lfailure, dehydration. excessive Ca in diet.
Ca of this level is within reference ranges for CBD"
"PCV (%) = 28
TP (g/L) = 80
Plasma Colour: Clear
Buffy Coat Appearance: Enlarged"
"Erythrocytes are slightly decreased on smear and do not display significant anisocytosis, poikilocytosis and/or
polychromasia. Leukocytes overall are within normal range for morphology.
Manual differential count:
Heterophils: 70%
Monocytes: 16%
Lymphocytes: 14%
Thrombocytes estimation is adequate.
No organisms or neoplastic cells found.
**Interpretation**
Slight non regenerative anaemia
Inflammatory leukogram, most likely"

It was essentially the sky-high UA and CA levels alongside the acute episode of swollen, painful limbs that lead them to suspect pseudo-gout. They did some x-rays and imaging showed up
"radio-opaque lesions noted in both forearms just proximal to the carpus
ddx: pseduogout - Ca deposits"



She's still eating quite well thank goodness, but we're now having trouble getting her to drink water (both during baths and from the bowel of water in her tank she used to regularly drink from). My partner used to be able to get her to drink in baths by doing a droplet at a time on her nose, but now she just shakes her head or refuses to open her mouth when he does it. Last night he used one of the oral med syringes to get some water into her (in the same way we'd get her to drink her meds), should we continue doing that if we can't get her to drink in the bath/during the day??

 

[Drache613]

Hello,

Thanks for the extra information.
In cases with gout developing the calcium
absorption & release of calcium, etc into the
blood stream is greatly affected. I am glad that
they caught the Uric acid level increase as well
as the higher than normal calcium levels.
Yes, if you are able to get oral fluids into her,
using an oral syringe, definitely continue to give
fluids that way.
How is she doing today? Keep us posted on her.

Tracie