Clear ocular discharge

[TamiLynne]

Hi everyone,

I'm new here, & new to beardie ownership, but not new to reptiles. I've had snakes & chameleons for years, & I am also a veterinary technician.

I brought home my first baby beardie on 4/11/09 & he has done well so far. Over the past 2 days I have noticed some clear mucous-like discharge from his eyes. Not much, not even enough to drain from the globe itself - just like eye "goobers" on a dog, cat, or human. I have used saline to flush the eyes once, & they cleared up for the day then the discharge returned. He is not otherwise showing signs of illness. He's active, good appetite, thermoregulating, not gaping & no raspy breathing sounds or other indications that something is wrong.

Is some discharge normal? Could I be catching something in its early stages? He's so new that I'd like to not have to bring him into work (I do work with vets that see herps) due to the stress, & having to have him acclimate again now that he's finally gotten comfortable. I'm wondering if it may be too humid in his enclosure.. would that cause it? Since the room he is in is very dry, I have not yet purchased a hygrometer so I'm not certain of the percent humidity. It's on the to-do list!

Any suggestions?

-Tami*

 

[Drache613]

Hello,

Could you run over your tank setup with us to make sure everything is all set up properly.
What type & brand of UVB light are you using, a flourescent tube bulb or a compact or coil light? How close is the UVB light?
What type of basking light are you using, a bright white light or a colored light? Where is the basking light placed in relation to the UVB light?
Does the eye look swollen, red or irritated at all?
What are the temps in the tank & what type of thermometer are you using? Is it a stick on thermometer, a digital probe or a temp gun?
Do you use a water dish? The recommended humidity is around 30 to 50% but 40% seems to be ideal. If it is too cool in the tank & too humid, it can increase the chances of a respiratory infection. Does he have any mucous or discharge out of his nose, or thick stringy & off colored saliva?
It doesn't sound like a respiratory infection but sometimes eye problems can be associated with respiratory issues. The improper UVB lights can also cause eye problems, too.

Tracie

 

[TamiLynne]

Thank you Tracie!

No discharge from the nose or mouth. No weird saliva, & the eyes look clear with no redness or swelling.

He's temporarily in a 10gal, he seems to have an easier time getting the crickets. We have a 50gal ready for when he's bigger. Light/heat is by 100watt household bulb (ok per Melissa Kaplan), UV from a ReptiSun 5.0 compact flourescent bulb. When he's on his rock or driftwood he's 7-8 inches from the lights. Temps range from 75 in the coolest corner to 90s in the warmest spots, with 105-109 in the basking zone at midday, where he spends most of his time. Those are temps by ProExotics temp gun, which we take periodically throughout the day & they seem to maintain themselves well. Would you think the lights are too bright for his little eyes? Oh & the top is screen.

We have a small (tiny) water dish that he never uses - I can't imagine that it would add much to the humidity but it does evaporate quickly. It's around an inch in diameter. The one purpose it seems to serve is drowning the crickets, but he does eat them while they're struggling so I like that he's hydrating himself that way. Seems sadistic when I say it like that! The only other thing that could add humidity is his veggies.. I serve them damp so they keep longer & he gets water from that too. Although at this age he's not eating much of them.

His substrate is paper, & his furniture is his rock, driftwood, food & water dishes, & a ceramic hide. Nothing loose to get in his eyes, unless he got nailed by a cricket. lol. But the discharge is from both eyes, so it doesn't seem like it's related to topical irritation.

Any thoughts?

-Tami*

 

[Drache613]

Hello Tami,

Unfortunately, I can guarantee that the eye problem is going to be light related. The Reptisun 5 compact/coil light is very hazardous. It emits low wavelength frequency of UVB light which is hazardous to the eyes. These lights are also very glaring in the way the UVB emits from the bulbs. Prolonged use of these lights will cause photo kerato conjunctivitis. Also this particular wavelength is not favorable for D3 synthesis either so it can leave him vulnerable to getting metabolic bone disease later on.
Here is a report for you to read regarding these lights:

http://www.uvguide.co.uk/phototherapyphosphor.htm

A regular household lightbulb is fine to use for the basking, no problem. So you can continue to use that light for him, but you will need to shut the Reptisun 5 compact/coil light off now. The correct light to get if you want to use a flourescent tube bulb would be the Reptisun 10 flourescent tube bulb. Make sure the UVB tube is placed right beside the basking light to encourage basking. That way he can bask & get warm while getting his UVB requirements as well.

Everything else looks fine, you don't have loose substrate for him which is great. The water dish as long as it is shallow is fine. Just make sure it is not deep so he does not accidentally fall in & drown if he fell asleep in it or something. Poor crickets! At least he does get some water that way though.

Let me know how he is doing.
His eyes should begin to get back to normal pretty soon after you shut the light off, & within a few days should hopefully go back to normal.

Tracie

 

[TamiLynne]

Tracie thank you so much!

After a (not so) small panic attack I returned the ReptiSun & presented the information you forwarded to me to the employees at the pet store & recommended that those bulbs be removed from the shelves. I mean there's a beardie right on the box!!

At any rate now I'm paranoid about what type of UV light to use. I found the Exo-Terra ReptiGlo 10.0 strip light, is that what you would recommend? I also got a standard strip light fixture from Home Depot & removed the plastic bulb cover - would that be an ok setup?

That all aside, should I be seeking veterinary attention for him, or is it likely to clear up on its own? He has been exposed to that light for 16 days total, & the discharge has only been the past 3-4 days. & now that I'm paranoid, I'm thinking he has been sleeping a tad more over the past 2 days.

I really appreciate the help. Who knows how long it would take me to pinpoint that as the problem!!

-Tami*

 

[beardie parents]

What we recommend is the reptiSUN 10 - long tube. The reptiglo 10 tube is better then the coils but the last testing showed that it wasn't that good. The best (and cheapest) place to get the reptisun 10 tube is Petmountain.com. We just got another one (for emergencies) for $18.

 

[TamiLynne]

Ok I've ordered the ReptiSun bulbs by expidited shipping. In the meantime is it more beneficial to use the ReptiGlo or simply leave the UV off altogether?

We're worried sick. At least it's beautiful in MA these past few days so we've been giving him as much sun as we can to hopefully help!

 

[spyder79]

have you already purchased the reptiglo?
If not the best thing for you to do is leave the heat light on and make sure your beardie gets about an hour or 2 of pure sunlight (take her outside with you and sit her on your lap or shoulder in the sun) a day. This will suffice easlily until the reptisun 10.0 shows up.

 

[TamiLynne]

I did buy the ReptiGlo but I can certainly return it (even used) after the "talk" I had with the pet store manager on Sunday.

From all I've read the sun is the best thing, unfortunately I'm in the middle of the woods where there's plenty of hawks & stray dogs, so I've been taking him out in a deep cardboard box so he can't scamper off (he's only a hatchling). What are your thoughts on keeping him on some driftwood by a screened window? My bedroom gets full sun for the morning hours so I'm wondering if that would be beneficial & safer at the same time. No glass in the window, obviously, & the screen merely to keep him from tumbling!

-Tami*

 

[Drache613]

Hello Tami,

Geez, sorry! I was not thinking, I should have told you to avoid the Reptiglo 10, I apologize. So you got the Reptisun 10 flourescent tube already ordered now?
Well, sitting him in the screen for a few hours per day should be ok, just make sure he still has a basking light on in is tank so he can stay warm for the majority of the day.
How is he doing today, are his eyes doing better?
They should be back to normal by the time you get the Reptisun 10 put in his tank. I hope he is feeling better now. How is his appetite?


Tracie

 

[TamiLynne]

Thanks again,

No big deal about the bulb, I should get the ReptiSun in a day or two. At least now I know that all the pet stores near me sell (excuse me) a bunch of crapola. & I can steer other herp owners away from them.

His eyes are still having a bit of discharge, but at least it is not worsening. I've been flushing them gently with sterile saline & wiping out the "goobers" 1-2 times per day, he becomes a lot more active after that. When they get goopy he just kind of sits around. He's also starting a shed, there were some flakes around his chin & nostrils this morning so I gave him a soak which he didn't seem to care one way or the other about. So of course now I'm worried that the added stress of the shed will affect him negatively since he's already in a sensitive way. Actually as I'm typing this he's rubbing his head on his basking stone.

Is there anything I should be doing to stimulate his appetite? My boyfriend & I have been offering him crickets & worms on tongs, which he sometimes takes & sometimes ignores. At least he doesn't have to actively look for them. But during the day he will run down to snag an escapee wandering by. I've heard great things about HealX Sunshine Factor - have you heard anything about it? Is there anything else you'd recommend overall other than just taking it one day at a time? He seems thin.. my gram scale came today & he's only 8grams. & his tummy doesn't look as fat as it did when he came home with us.

Ok.. cue the worried mom routine.

 

[Drache613]

Hello Tami,

Yeah unfortunately there are not many of the pet stores who sell higher end UVB lights. I wish that they would though, it gets frustrating.
Great you will be getting the Reptisun 10 soon.
Hopefully his eyes will continue to improve. Keep on putting the saline solution in his eyes daily & wiping them out. At least his eyes are not swollen. Poor guy he is shedding also? At least things don't seem to be bothering him much.
You can get some bee pollen & brewer's yeast which help stimulate the appetite & mix that in with some water or pedialyte in a plastic dropper or plastic syringe. That is good he is still eating right now, a little bit anyway.
I have not used or heard of HealX Sunshine Factor. What is in it, did you look at the label?
Ah, he is only 8 grams, so he is tiny!
If you feel he needs to gain weight, you can make him a babyfood slurry with chicken or turkey babyfood mixed with squash babyfood & give him .5-1 ml or cc daily to help him gain some weight, along with his feeders too.

Tracie

 

[TamiLynne]

Hi Tracie,

After I posted last he ate like a pig! I had actually gotten him some new cage furniture while I was at the pet store, & after I rearranged the tank he scrambled around eating everything in sight! Of course the following day he didn't show as much interest.. but at least things are looking up. He'd gained a whole gram before he defecated last night - & the stool looked very normal. Phew!

Still discharging from the eyes, but not as bad. I spoke with one of the exotics vets at my practice who had heard NOTHING about those lights being counterindicated - so she will definately be spreading the word not only to our herp clients, but to other vets. Thanks again for getting that knowledge out there. She also put him on an eye drop - Ciprofloxacin, 2-3 times per day as tolerated, to use until effect. The other recommendation was Tetracaine to alleviate the pain, but I wonder if that would hide the symptoms if he were getting worse, so I haven't gone that route yet. Especially since he seems to be improving. & let me tell you getting an eye drop into a 9gram dragon is like a magic act. lol.

Here is a link to the HealX line of products: http://www.exoticdvm.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=healx.showIcons& We had a rep come to our clinic a few weeks ago to discuss the use of these products in birds, but he also states they have proven beneficial in all species: namely the Booster and Sunshine Factor. I'd be interested to hear what you think.

Thanks again for all of your help, it's been a rollercoaster couple of days!

-Tami*

 

[TamiLynne]

Tracie I can't thank you enough for your help. My little one is doing amazing.. his appetite has increased dramatically, I can hardly get the bugs in there fast enough for him. He's no longer lethargic & doesn't bask with his eyes closed. His activity level is through the roof. He's drinking more, and has consistantly eaten his salad for me in the morning which he had shown little interest in before. His body condition has improved so much.. I hadn't even realized he was becoming thin until his belly filled out nicely. & above all, he simply seems so much happier!

Just wanted to share little Brock Samson's success .. couldn't have been possible without you folks here, since even the vet didn't know!

Thanks again,

-Tami*