Both Eyes Swollen & Drooping

lil booshka

Member
Original Poster
Hi everyone, this is my first post on the forum, and hate that it comes in these circumstances.

Booshka (Babushka) has been a part of my life for about a year and a half now, and has appeared to be in good health until now. 3 nights ago (Sunday) when I was saying goodnight to her, I noticed her eyes appeared a little puffy and looked like she was tearing up or about to start crying, if you will. Earlier that day, she was acting totally normal: perky, energetic, hungry. However the following morning, both of her eyes were very swollen (on her skull/top of head) and drooping toward the front corners of her actual eyeballs. Where the drooping is occurring, there appears to be some reddish/brownish discoloration. (Photos attached)

My first thought was she might be about to start her shed. She’s naturally a very vibrant orange, and tends to lose that vibrancy and transition into a grey-ish color as her shed progresses. Monday morning, her beard was pretty black, and the bottom half of her tail appeared darker. Her vibrant orange has sort of dulled out a bit, but doesn’t appear to be transitioning into that grey-ish shed color. It is currently late Wednesday night, and her beard has returned to a normal-ish color, but the bottom half of her tail still seems to be a little darker.

After some initial research, it appears it could be a few things: parasites/mites, Vitamin A issues (too much or too little of it), infection, or injury/irritation. The obvious thing to do would be take her to the vet, and will likely do so tomorrow. However, we took our previous beardie to this “specialty vet” after he tragically fell, and was told that he had a fractured hip and would be fine in no time if we just gave him his “pain medicine” or whatever it was they gave us. And less than 48 hours later, he passed away. I understand the vets are professionals and have a much greater knowledge on these critters than I do, but also understand that they are humans and humans tend to make mistakes. However, as I have never been familiar with beardie biology/anatomy, I was forced to accept the vet’s diagnosis and have faith that they were right. That being said, I reach out to this community as a scared and concerned beardie parent, in hopes to get some input/advice on what to ask the vet.

As I have begun to research beardie health, I’ve realized that I could certainly be doing more to ensure a healthy lizard. My first beardie was a significant other’s, and I naturally assumed the step-parent role. However, I knew nothing about beardies, and up until this week, the majority of knowledge I’ve had about beardies came from that significant other. But I’m starting to realize my irresponsibility from over the years, and believe I could have been doing more to ensure a happy, healthy Booshka.

Booshka’s Living Conditions:

I have always had a general understanding that beardie’s need their sunlight (or basking lamp) and a warm, stable environment. But my research has led me to believe that I haven’t been paying enough attention to those factors. She has a pretty large terrarium (don’t know exact measurements), and uses the “Repti Basking Spot Lamp” (I believe I got her the 100w, but don’t know for sure. I have never known exactly which of wattage would be right for her). Sand covers the bottom of the terrarium, with a little log, a tree, and her favorite part: her hammock. She spends the majority of the day in her hammock, directly underneath the basking lamp. HOWEVER, at night time, we always take her out of her terrarium, and put her in her little cat bed that sits on a warm heating pad. I’m sure this practice is a little unorthodox and have always feared it may be detrimental to her health, but younger me couldn’t justify keeping a sweet lizard locked up over night. She was less than a year old when we got her, and she was itty bitty. We would make her a fresh bowl of lettuce & fruit (blueberries, blackberries, pineapples, carrots) every day, and try to have mealworms on standby as a little protein treat. Early on, it was rare to see food left over in her bowl, and once she got big enough, we introduced her to crickets. Ever since she was introduced to crickets, she shows little to no interest in the salad, and will go on hunger strike until she’s given some crickets or worms. She was in brumation from roughly November until 2-3 weeks ago, and showed signs of her regaining her appetite and energy up until Sunday evening. Booshka was given a generous portion of crickets on Saturday, and ate less than she would have before brumation. I just assumed it was because she was still adjusting and coming out of brumation. Upon research, I’ve learned that not only are crickets sort of a “dirty” meal because they have been known to carry parasites/mites, but they can also injure your beardie if left in the enclosure beyond feeding time. <— that alone has me feeling really guilty because I have been feeding her primarily crickets for the past year, and would always just throw a ton of them in with her to take care of at her leisure.

TO SUM IT ALL UP:
I know this post is longer than some books, but this little lizard has helped me through some tough times by just being alive and next to me. I swear she understands me, and knows when I need to see her little licks and her darting side glances. She is more than a pet and a friend, she’s family. If anyone has read this far, you’re a trooper, and hope you’re able to feel where I’m coming from. Any input/advice would be greatly appreciated.
 

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KarrieRee

BD.org Sicko
Beardie name(s)
Hiccup he is 6 and Blaze is 4
Hi everyone, this is my first post on the forum, and hate that it comes in these circumstances.

Booshka (Babushka) has been a part of my life for about a year and a half now, and has appeared to be in good health until now. 3 nights ago (Sunday) when I was saying goodnight to her, I noticed her eyes appeared a little puffy and looked like she was tearing up or about to start crying, if you will. Earlier that day, she was acting totally normal: perky, energetic, hungry. However the following morning, both of her eyes were very swollen (on her skull/top of head) and drooping toward the front corners of her actual eyeballs. Where the drooping is occurring, there appears to be some reddish/brownish discoloration. (Photos attached)

My first thought was she might be about to start her shed. She’s naturally a very vibrant orange, and tends to lose that vibrancy and transition into a grey-ish color as her shed progresses. Monday morning, her beard was pretty black, and the bottom half of her tail appeared darker. Her vibrant orange has sort of dulled out a bit, but doesn’t appear to be transitioning into that grey-ish shed color. It is currently late Wednesday night, and her beard has returned to a normal-ish color, but the bottom half of her tail still seems to be a little darker.

After some initial research, it appears it could be a few things: parasites/mites, Vitamin A issues (too much or too little of it), infection, or injury/irritation. The obvious thing to do would be take her to the vet, and will likely do so tomorrow. However, we took our previous beardie to this “specialty vet” after he tragically fell, and was told that he had a fractured hip and would be fine in no time if we just gave him his “pain medicine” or whatever it was they gave us. And less than 48 hours later, he passed away. I understand the vets are professionals and have a much greater knowledge on these critters than I do, but also understand that they are humans and humans tend to make mistakes. However, as I have never been familiar with beardie biology/anatomy, I was forced to accept the vet’s diagnosis and have faith that they were right. That being said, I reach out to this community as a scared and concerned beardie parent, in hopes to get some input/advice on what to ask the vet.

As I have begun to research beardie health, I’ve realized that I could certainly be doing more to ensure a healthy lizard. My first beardie was a significant other’s, and I naturally assumed the step-parent role. However, I knew nothing about beardies, and up until this week, the majority of knowledge I’ve had about beardies came from that significant other. But I’m starting to realize my irresponsibility from over the years, and believe I could have been doing more to ensure a happy, healthy Booshka.

Booshka’s Living Conditions:

I have always had a general understanding that beardie’s need their sunlight (or basking lamp) and a warm, stable environment. But my research has led me to believe that I haven’t been paying enough attention to those factors. She has a pretty large terrarium (don’t know exact measurements), and uses the “Repti Basking Spot Lamp” (I believe I got her the 100w, but don’t know for sure. I have never known exactly which of wattage would be right for her). Sand covers the bottom of the terrarium, with a little log, a tree, and her favorite part: her hammock. She spends the majority of the day in her hammock, directly underneath the basking lamp. HOWEVER, at night time, we always take her out of her terrarium, and put her in her little cat bed that sits on a warm heating pad. I’m sure this practice is a little unorthodox and have always feared it may be detrimental to her health, but younger me couldn’t justify keeping a sweet lizard locked up over night. She was less than a year old when we got her, and she was itty bitty. We would make her a fresh bowl of lettuce & fruit (blueberries, blackberries, pineapples, carrots) every day, and try to have mealworms on standby as a little protein treat. Early on, it was rare to see food left over in her bowl, and once she got big enough, we introduced her to crickets. Ever since she was introduced to crickets, she shows little to no interest in the salad, and will go on hunger strike until she’s given some crickets or worms. She was in brumation from roughly November until 2-3 weeks ago, and showed signs of her regaining her appetite and energy up until Sunday evening. Booshka was given a generous portion of crickets on Saturday, and ate less than she would have before brumation. I just assumed it was because she was still adjusting and coming out of brumation. Upon research, I’ve learned that not only are crickets sort of a “dirty” meal because they have been known to carry parasites/mites, but they can also injure your beardie if left in the enclosure beyond feeding time. <— that alone has me feeling really guilty because I have been feeding her primarily crickets for the past year, and would always just throw a ton of them in with her to take care of at her leisure.

TO SUM IT ALL UP:
I know this post is longer than some books, but this little lizard has helped me through some tough times by just being alive and next to me. I swear she understands me, and knows when I need to see her little licks and her darting side glances. She is more than a pet and a friend, she’s family. If anyone has read this far, you’re a trooper, and hope you’re able to feel where I’m coming from. Any input/advice would be greatly appreciated.
Welcome to the forum --- first off you didnt say what kind of UVB your using-- the basking lamp is good but you need 2 digital probe thermometers to get actual surface basking temps 95-100 -place one on the spot where she basks leave till you get the temp then you can stick it on the side of the tank and it will give you ambient temps around 100 --take the other put on the cool side of the tank you want that temp 80ish during the day -- next NO coils for a UVB - this could be the cause of the swollen eyes or shes gotten sand in them -- have you tried rinsing them out w / some regular saline solution? NO contact lens stuff-- Leaving crickets in the tank is not a good idea - they will bite the dragon - dubia roaches are ok to leave but not crickets - dragons like cool and dark at night w/ temps around 65-75 -- they heat from their backs and not their stomachs - we dont recommend heating pads for regular use but can be used for sick dragons and other options to keep them warm if other options are not available - usually its CHE's since they provide heat and no light placed on top if the screen is recommended -- are you feeding salads? She needs salads and insects should be fed 2-3 times per week now that she is an adult-- please tell me what UVB your using ---
 

ChileanTaco

Hatchling Member
Beardie name(s)
Taco
I can agree with KarrieRee, those things are super important.

Regarding the sand, as I'm also using sand: Which kind of sand is it, how is the consistency? Does it feel fine, powdery, you immediately leave marks in the sand when moving your fingers over it, or is it mixed with some top soil and thus feels more like in a garden bed, or with a hard surface like on a hiking trail?

I use desert sand, but mist it regularly a bit so it dries out under the heat of the lamps. This gives a hard surface like on a trail; I would have to push really hard with a finger to "crack" the surface. So it's not prone to get into my dragon's eyes, plus the harder surface (he won't sink in) is better for the joints.
 

lil booshka

Member
Original Poster
Welcome to the forum --- first off you didnt say what kind of UVB your using-- the basking lamp is good but you need 2 digital probe thermometers to get actual surface basking temps 95-100 -place one on the spot where she basks leave till you get the temp then you can stick it on the side of the tank and it will give you ambient temps around 100 --take the other put on the cool side of the tank you want that temp 80ish during the day -- next NO coils for a UVB - this could be the cause of the swollen eyes or shes gotten sand in them -- have you tried rinsing them out w / some regular saline solution? NO contact lens stuff-- Leaving crickets in the tank is not a good idea - they will bite the dragon - dubia roaches are ok to leave but not crickets - dragons like cool and dark at night w/ temps around 65-75 -- they heat from their backs and not their stomachs - we dont recommend heating pads for regular use but can be used for sick dragons and other options to keep them warm if other options are not available - usually its CHE's since they provide heat and no light placed on top if the screen is recommended -- are you feeding salads? She needs salads and insects should be fed 2-3 times per week now that she is an adult-- please tell me what UVB your using ---
@KarrieRee to tell you the truth, until I just looked it up, I didn’t realize that the UVB & basking lamp are separate. I am a bit embarrassed as I have neglected to use these and thermometers in my beardie’s habitat. I now realize the importance of UVB and will make that top priority moving forward. As far as rinsing her eyes, I have not yet. I have been afraid I would hurt her further. I have been attempting to feed her salad, but she hasn’t showed any interest since brumation. I always try to hand feed her initially, and then leave the bowl in her habitat. But since brumation, I’ve gotten her to eat a few blueberries, a few nibbles of lettuce, and a very little bit of pineapple.
 

lil booshka

Member
Original Poster
I can agree with KarrieRee, those things are super important.

Regarding the sand, as I'm also using sand: Which kind of sand is it, how is the consistency? Does it feel fine, powdery, you immediately leave marks in the sand when moving your fingers over it, or is it mixed with some top soil and thus feels more like in a garden bed, or with a hard surface like on a hiking trail?

I use desert sand, but mist it regularly a bit so it dries out under the heat of the lamps. This gives a hard surface like on a trail; I would have to push really hard with a finger to "crack" the surface. So it's not prone to get into my dragon's eyes, plus the harder surface (he won't sink in) is better for the joints.
@ChileanTaco I can’t remember the exact specifics of name/brand of sand, but do remember I got it from a PetSmart for whatever that is worth. As far as consistency of the sand, it is on par with desert like sand. However, I have not tried wetting the sand, and will use that method moving forward.
 

KarrieRee

BD.org Sicko
Beardie name(s)
Hiccup he is 6 and Blaze is 4
@KarrieRee to tell you the truth, until I just looked it up, I didn’t realize that the UVB & basking lamp are separate. I am a bit embarrassed as I have neglected to use these and thermometers in my beardie’s habitat. I now realize the importance of UVB and will make that top priority moving forward. As far as rinsing her eyes, I have not yet. I have been afraid I would hurt her further. I have been attempting to feed her salad, but she hasn’t showed any interest since brumation. I always try to hand feed her initially, and then leave the bowl in her habitat. But since brumation, I’ve gotten her to eat a few blueberries, a few nibbles of lettuce, and a very little bit of pineapple.
Ok lets go over the UVB tell me what you have and how old is it? Is it a coil or a long tube fixture? Please no more lettuce or pineapple or blueberries - those are high in sugar and can cause diabetes -- I am posting a website for nutrition ignore the kale info its outdated and a good staple feeder Nutrition Content
try rinsing the eyes out w/ the saline and see what her eyes do - certain bulbs in the tank can cause eye irritation that is why the questions for lighting -- but it needs to be on par simply for the over all health
 

lil booshka

Member
Original Poster
Ok lets go over the UVB tell me what you have and how old is it? Is it a coil or a long tube fixture? Please no more lettuce or pineapple or blueberries - those are high in sugar and can cause diabetes -- I am posting a website for nutrition ignore the kale info its outdated and a good staple feeder Nutrition Content
try rinsing the eyes out w/ the saline and see what her eyes do - certain bulbs in the tank can cause eye irritation that is why the questions for lighting -- but it needs to be on par simply for the over all health
@KarrieRee - Unfortunately and embarrassingly, I have never used a UVB in either of my beardies habitats. Only a basking lamp, no UVB, no thermometers. Until Booshka starting showing these symptoms this week, my knowledge on beardie health was at basically zero. I’m not proud to admit that, having had one for almost 8 years now, but I’ve never had any issues with either of them until now (apart from my previous beardie falling).

From what I now understand, I will be getting Booshka a UVB tomorrow, and thermometers if available. I was unable to get her in with the exotic pet specialist today, so I will be taking her first thing in the morning to get some information and hopefully treatment.


She showed a tiny bit of energy early in the day, but declined pretty quickly in the afternoon, and appears to be worse tonight. I have attached some updated photos with how she looks currently.
 

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Drache613

BD.org Sicko
Staff member
Moderator
Hello,

So sorry she is having these issues.
We have all at one point in time been in a position
like this, with an ill dragon so I know how much of
an emotional situation this is.
The swelling in the beard today is alarming. What
type of supplementation are you giving her? Since
this has come on pretty suddenly, it is most likely
going to be food or supplement related.
You have not been using a UVB light, correct?

Tracie
 

KarrieRee

BD.org Sicko
Beardie name(s)
Hiccup he is 6 and Blaze is 4
@KarrieRee - Unfortunately and embarrassingly, I have never used a UVB in either of my beardies habitats. Only a basking lamp, no UVB, no thermometers. Until Booshka starting showing these symptoms this week, my knowledge on beardie health was at basically zero. I’m not proud to admit that, having had one for almost 8 years now, but I’ve never had any issues with either of them until now (apart from my previous beardie falling).

From what I now understand, I will be getting Booshka a UVB tomorrow, and thermometers if available. I was unable to get her in with the exotic pet specialist today, so I will be taking her first thing in the morning to get some information and hopefully treatment.


She showed a tiny bit of energy early in the day, but declined pretty quickly in the afternoon, and appears to be worse tonight. I have attached some updated photos with how she looks currently.
Please get one of these UVB's ASAP-
24" fixture for a 40 + gallon tank
Zoo Med Robot or human? this is odd how it came up ---
Zoo Med ReptiSun T5 HO High Output Terrarium Hood these come w/ a 5.0 bulb you want a 22" Reptisun Zoo Med ReptiSun 10.0 UVB T5 HO High Output Fluorescent Bulb
this one can be found at PetSmart you want the 12% 24 watt bulb
Arcadia ProT5 12% UVB Bulb With Hood
or this one you want the 24" or 2 ft fixture - please change the bulb out to the Reptsiun posted above
https://hydrobuilder.com/sunblaster...mp.html?opts=eyJhdHRyaWJ1dGU5MDEiOiI2NjEwIn0=
Placement and distance will be determined by the screen please post back on here when you get the UVB
Please NO enemas at the vet ---- they can often turn out badly - please take a fecal in w/ you
 

lil booshka

Member
Original Poster
UPDATE :

Today has been really difficult for me. I took Booshka to the vet this morning, with every fiber in my body believing that whatever it was that was making her feel this way, would be treatable. However, after a few moments of examining Booshka, the vet came in with a very concerning demeanor. “So, I have some bad news. She has a tumor growing underneath her tongue in the back of her mouth, leaving her very little room to eat or breathe.”

I couldn’t contain my emotions, and immediately started shedding tears. I was finally able to muster the words, “So what are our options?”

She replied, “You don’t really have any good options. I would recommend euthanasia, because surgery would most likely result in her passing. If you need a few more days with her, we can give her some pain meds to make it easier for her.”

Of course I wanted more time with my sweet Booshka, but knowing the discomfort she was in, with a reluctant heart, it was agreed upon to go ahead and put her out of her misery.

I was so unprepared for this scenario, it was impossible to control my emotions. Walking into the vet, I just assumed that she would be walking out with me. As difficult as it was for me to watch her be put down, I knew it would be selfish of me to try to have her carry on in that state, just so I could have her around me.

I thought about just abandoning this thread due to the circumstance, but felt I needed to extend a thank you to those who have provided input and advice to attempt to resolve the situation.


Thank you all again. I know Booshka would have thanked y’all too if she could.
 

Drache613

BD.org Sicko
Staff member
Moderator
Hello,

Oh no, this was so sudden for Booshka, I am so very sorry. I wish we all could have helped sooner for
her. This had to have been a terrible shock & no matter what, it makes it difficult to be able to deal with
when it's so unexpected.
It sounds like it was very serious so she was most likely uncomfortable. I am sorry you lost her. My
sincere condolences to you & your family.

Tracie
 

Lyrebird.Rainwing

Juvie Member
Beardie name(s)
Swordtail
UPDATE :

Today has been really difficult for me. I took Booshka to the vet this morning, with every fiber in my body believing that whatever it was that was making her feel this way, would be treatable. However, after a few moments of examining Booshka, the vet came in with a very concerning demeanor. “So, I have some bad news. She has a tumor growing underneath her tongue in the back of her mouth, leaving her very little room to eat or breathe.”

I couldn’t contain my emotions, and immediately started shedding tears. I was finally able to muster the words, “So what are our options?”

She replied, “You don’t really have any good options. I would recommend euthanasia, because surgery would most likely result in her passing. If you need a few more days with her, we can give her some pain meds to make it easier for her.”

Of course I wanted more time with my sweet Booshka, but knowing the discomfort she was in, with a reluctant heart, it was agreed upon to go ahead and put her out of her misery.

I was so unprepared for this scenario, it was impossible to control my emotions. Walking into the vet, I just assumed that she would be walking out with me. As difficult as it was for me to watch her be put down, I knew it would be selfish of me to try to have her carry on in that state, just so I could have her around me.

I thought about just abandoning this thread due to the circumstance, but felt I needed to extend a thank you to those who have provided input and advice to attempt to resolve the situation.


Thank you all again. I know Booshka would have thanked y’all too if she could.
Oh, oh no, that's very sad to hear. Me and Swordtail express our condolences

Hawthorn welcomes them into the beardie afterlife with open arms
 

KarrieRee

BD.org Sicko
Beardie name(s)
Hiccup he is 6 and Blaze is 4
I was shocked here this morning about Booshka-- I wasnt expecting that either - I am so sorry to hear this - its never easy getting prognosis like the one you got - your did your best and I am glad you came back to let us know - going forward if and when you decide to maybe try again please let us help you w/ the husbandry - the things we posted are so crucial to their over all health -- I am so sorry again - I know it breaks your heart 💔 -- in time your heart will mend but you will always remember her
 

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