Antibiotics not working? Fungal infection due to antibiotics? Deteriorating, please help

[Commissaar]

Hey all.

I tried to go into lots of detail about my baby but you can skip to the tl;Dr below and I'll be so grateful all the same.

About 2 weeks ago my lovely beardie scaley who is around 6 years old took a trip to the vet because she had been lethargic and I noticed some bubbles coming out of her nose. She was also gaping a lot, with a little more mucus than normal but not shocking. I noticed this after she had aspirated some water after taking a bath.

She saw the vet two weeks ago exactly. Vet said she was a great colour, body weight and condition. Said she appeared to have a little bit of an infection and prescribed Marbocyl 0.14ml every other day for three weeks, with an expectation for her to show improvement in around 10 days.

Well it's been 14 and I don't really notice any improvement. Her behaviour and mood seems fine - her appetite is a bit low but I'm chalking that down to antibiotics. She's a lovely colour and never blackbearding or showing visible distress. I had one scare where I came home from work and I found her belly up, on her back with her legs in the air. I feared the worst, but she was alive - just unable to move or didn't have the energy to. She can walk around fine but I've noticed that she does this more and more since the visit, seems to fall down somewhere, on her back, or side, and just decide that she doesn't need to get up. Some of these positions look quite alarming and uncomfortable and I'm not sure if this is due to fatigue or just something they do as they get older and more lazy and I know they have a penchant for weird poses.

Last night I noticed what appears to be her infection getting worse, or maybe a fungal infection caused by the antibiotic? Around one side of her mouth, she has a small layer of whitish yellow sticky discharge that dries as a sort of crust. It can be scraped off with a fingernail or q tip, it is NOT stuck shed. I know it looks like it, but the texture is very different. I am not sure if this is indicating that the antibiotics aren't working and the 'original' infection is progressing, or if it's a secondary opportunistic thing caused by the antibiotic.

I know these drugs can be stressful and I just want to do right by her. The reptile vet is an exotic specialist so I do trust them but I'm worried somehow the condition is not bacterial, or the antibiotics are making it worse, or she's just not well. Shall I take her to the vet now, or should I wait until her course is up? Any advice appreciated, she is my world.

Her setup I have detailed in other posts but she has a long T4 arcadia for UVB mounted on her tank, she has a ceramic heat emitter for her hot-spot at 38-40 degrees and can move to 30 if needed, her CHE stays on at night at the moment, and is a little higher than usual as following advice from vet to put temperature up in infection. She switched to a sand substrate from paper a few years ago - mainly because she really loves to dig and she does not eat from the ground, she usually just eats from tweezers or my hands. I'm not sure if the substrate could cause issues even if she is handfed, I know calci sand is bad news and sand can be bad news for dragons who eat from the ground.

Tl;dr:

*Suspected respiratory infection, slight bubble and mucous with gaping so went to vet 2 weeks ago
*Vet prescribed marbocyl 0.14ml every other day for 3 weeks
*2 weeks into treatment, no improvement to symptoms, is falling frequently but not showing discomfort or distress
*White/yellow sticky discharge appeared yesterday lining one side of the mouth

Any opinions and advice appreciated she's my world. Attached pictures of the weird crust which I promise is not shed, and some pictures of her in those weird poses she has been falling into. Please help, she is my world! I'm so scared that I've made her worse with these antibiotics and I know it looks tiny but this weird crust feels sinister.

 

[KarrieRee]

Hey all.

I tried to go into lots of detail about my baby but you can skip to the tl;Dr below and I'll be so grateful all the same.

About 2 weeks ago my lovely beardie scaley who is around 6 years old took a trip to the vet because she had been lethargic and I noticed some bubbles coming out of her nose. She was also gaping a lot, with a little more mucus than normal but not shocking. I noticed this after she had aspirated some water after taking a bath.

She saw the vet two weeks ago exactly. Vet said she was a great colour, body weight and condition. Said she appeared to have a little bit of an infection and prescribed Marbocyl 0.14ml every other day for three weeks, with an expectation for her to show improvement in around 10 days.

Well it's been 14 and I don't really notice any improvement. Her behaviour and mood seems fine - her appetite is a bit low but I'm chalking that down to antibiotics. She's a lovely colour and never blackbearding or showing visible distress. I had one scare where I came home from work and I found her belly up, on her back with her legs in the air. I feared the worst, but she was alive - just unable to move or didn't have the energy to. She can walk around fine but I've noticed that she does this more and more since the visit, seems to fall down somewhere, on her back, or side, and just decide that she doesn't need to get up. Some of these positions look quite alarming and uncomfortable and I'm not sure if this is due to fatigue or just something they do as they get older and more lazy and I know they have a penchant for weird poses.

Last night I noticed what appears to be her infection getting worse, or maybe a fungal infection caused by the antibiotic? Around one side of her mouth, she has a small layer of whitish yellow sticky discharge that dries as a sort of crust. It can be scraped off with a fingernail or q tip, it is NOT stuck shed. I know it looks like it, but the texture is very different. I am not sure if this is indicating that the antibiotics aren't working and the 'original' infection is progressing, or if it's a secondary opportunistic thing caused by the antibiotic.

I know these drugs can be stressful and I just want to do right by her. The reptile vet is an exotic specialist so I do trust them but I'm worried somehow the condition is not bacterial, or the antibiotics are making it worse, or she's just not well. Shall I take her to the vet now, or should I wait until her course is up? Any advice appreciated, she is my world.

Her setup I have detailed in other posts but she has a long T4 arcadia for UVB mounted on her tank, she has a ceramic heat emitter for her hot-spot at 38-40 degrees and can move to 30 if needed, her CHE stays on at night at the moment, and is a little higher than usual as following advice from vet to put temperature up in infection. She switched to a sand substrate from paper a few years ago - mainly because she really loves to dig and she does not eat from the ground, she usually just eats from tweezers or my hands. I'm not sure if the substrate could cause issues even if she is handfed, I know calci sand is bad news and sand can be bad news for dragons who eat from the ground.

Tl;dr:

*Suspected respiratory infection, slight bubble and mucous with gaping so went to vet 2 weeks ago
*Vet prescribed marbocyl 0.14ml every other day for 3 weeks
*2 weeks into treatment, no improvement to symptoms, is falling frequently but not showing discomfort or distress
*White/yellow sticky discharge appeared yesterday lining one side of the mouth

Any opinions and advice appreciated she's my world. Attached pictures of the weird crust which I promise is not shed, and some pictures of her in those weird poses she has been falling into. Please help, she is my world! I'm so scared that I've made her worse with these antibiotics and I know it looks tiny but this weird crust feels sinister.

We need our vet tech mod to look at this post --- the UVB is it inside the tank or top of the screen? I would get all basking decor low to the ground and get your UVB directly over her unobstructed and I am assuming you have a T 5 - I do not know what a T 4 is -- the bulb is it a 12% or a 14% --- there is a difference for distance --- also are you using ONLY a heat emitter and NO solid bright white basking bulb? If so please GET one as soon as you can --- she needs the UVA from the bright white bulb - the CHE is good for sick dragons to keep them warm at night but NOT for a basking bulb---- please do this right away--- this could of been a good reason the dragon got sick ---- you want surface basking temps 95-100 taken w/ a digital probe thermometer they are the most accurate
I am flagging post to Tracie -- she can help w/ the meds
@Drache613

 

[Commissaar]

We need our vet tech mod to look at this post --- the UVB is it inside the tank or top of the screen? I would get all basking decor low to the ground and get your UVB directly over her unobstructed and I am assuming you have a T 5 - I do not know what a T 4 is -- the bulb is it a 12% or a 14% --- there is a difference for distance --- also are you using ONLY a heat emitter and NO solid bright white basking bulb? If so please GET one as soon as you can --- she needs the UVA from the bright white bulb - the CHE is good for sick dragons to keep them warm at night but NOT for a basking bulb---- please do this right away--- this could of been a good reason the dragon got sick ---- you want surface basking temps 95-100 taken w/ a digital probe thermometer they are the most accurate
I am flagging post to Tracie -- she can help w/ the meds
@Drache613

Sorry I just recalled from memory and knew it was T something.

I feel quite stupid and negligent now. I thought the point of the T5 is that it supplies the UV spectrum light she needs, both B and A. Looking it up online, information seems contradictory, some places very clearly state that T5 also gives off UVA, some only reference the UVB.

I use the long bulb for UV and the ceramic one for heat. I would not use a CHE alone with no UV lighting. She did used to have a mercury bulb in her old set up. Once she moved into her new set up, the CHE fit better inside. The long T bulb is 12% and it's mounted inside the tank, around 10 inches from her. I can install a mercury bulb back if necessary.

 

[Commissaar]

"Arcadia T5 12% UVB 54w Reptile Light

A revolutionary new range of high performance T5 reptile lamps from Arcadia. Offering a significant increase in both visible light and UV output compared with T8 lamps of similar length. High output T5 Full spectrum colour of light Plus UVB at 12% and UVA at 30% T5 diameter and will fit all high output T5 control systems, Made in Germany to the highest standard and is guaranteed to be UVB potent for 12 whole month s."

This is the one I'm using. Is this information incorrect about the UVA, or is it simply not enough? Thank you so much for the advice all. And thanks Tracie if you read this, I know you replied on my previous thread.

 

[KarrieRee]

Sorry I just recalled from memory and knew it was T something.

I feel quite stupid and negligent now. I thought the point of the T5 is that it supplies the UV spectrum light she needs, both B and A. Looking it up online, information seems contradictory, some places very clearly state that T5 also gives off UVA, some only reference the UVB.

I use the long bulb for UV and the ceramic one for heat. I would not use a CHE alone with no UV lighting. She did used to have a mercury bulb in her old set up. Once she moved into her new set up, the CHE fit better inside. The long T bulb is 12% and it's mounted inside the tank, around 10 inches from her. I can install a mercury bulb back if necessary.

Please get a clear solid bright white basking bulb --- you want to mimic the sun and CHE's do not do that -- examples of basking bulbs are Flukers --- Exo Terra Intense --- Zoo Med Repti basking or a Arcadia Halogen ---- the MVB is good but since you already have the T 5 or 12% bulb you do not need the MVB they are a good heat source but pricey - please get this right away ---

 

[KarrieRee]

"Arcadia T5 12% UVB 54w Reptile Light

A revolutionary new range of high performance T5 reptile lamps from Arcadia. Offering a significant increase in both visible light and UV output compared with T8 lamps of similar length. High output T5 Full spectrum colour of light Plus UVB at 12% and UVA at 30% T5 diameter and will fit all high output T5 control systems, Made in Germany to the highest standard and is guaranteed to be UVB potent for 12 whole month s."

This is the one I'm using. Is this information incorrect about the UVA, or is it simply not enough? Thank you so much for the advice all. And thanks Tracie if you read this, I know you replied on my previous thread.

They are great bulbs but you do need the solid clear bright white bulb --- I would run the CHE at night to keep her temps up so she can fight what ever is going on here -- temps around 80 at night till she is better-- your bright white basking bulb should keep temps 95-100 on her basking spot taken w/ the digital probe thermometer

 

[Commissaar]

They are great bulbs but you do need the solid clear bright white bulb --- I would run the CHE at night to keep her temps up so she can fight what ever is going on here -- temps around 80 at night till she is better-- your bright white basking bulb should keep temps 95-100 on her basking spot taken w/ the digital probe thermometer

I will get a bulb for basking ASAP. I do have a MVB but I could not mount it right now as it is quite large and will be too close to her in this setup. Thanks for the advice, I honestly thought the light from the long tube was sufficient to mimic the sun and that the CHE was fine for creating a temperature gradient/hot spot so long as she was not deprived of the UV light altogether. I will get one ASAP. Her temps are a little higher than you described if only because the vet told me to, but I will bring them down. I'm starting to think the white patch may be a powder film left from the medicine as I noticed little white specks around the vial and before I cleaned the syringe.

 

[KarrieRee]

I will get a bulb for basking ASAP. I do have a MVB but I could not mount it right now as it is quite large and will be too close to her in this setup. Thanks for the advice, I honestly thought the light from the long tube was sufficient to mimic the sun and that the CHE was fine for creating a temperature gradient/hot spot so long as she was not deprived of the UV light altogether. I will get one ASAP. Her temps are a little higher than you described if only because the vet told me to, but I will bring them down. I'm starting to think the white patch may be a powder film left from the medicine as I noticed little white specks around the vial and before I cleaned the syringe.

Sounds good --- watch her behavior after installing the basking bulb --- but we need Tracie to weigh in on the meds---
@Drache613