4mo old baby looks healthy, barely eaten for past month, tried so many things!

[haku_parents]

We desperately need help identifying the cause of our baby bearded dragon's lack of appetite. His name is Haku. Here's a compilation of all the information we could think of and we hope you all have some advice! We took him to the vet 2 weeks ago and she didn't seem too concerned, though she did give us parasite medication described below. The medicine dealt with the parasites, but his appetite has not returned. He's a leatherback so we were worried that his wrinkles meant he was dehydrated, but the vet didn't think so. She said he looked healthy and it might just be this time of year even though he isn't brumating. However, we want as many opinions as possible since he's young and not growing so we're very concerned. We just want him to be healthy and as first time beardie owners, the huge decrease in appetite, small size, and slow growth currently does not seem normal.

His stats:
Born Sept 9th (4 months and 1 week)
45 grams (and has barely increased in nearly a month)
12 inches

Tank setup:
120 gallon tank
Substrate is tile. He has hides, but he rarely uses them. He likes to bask on his logs, hang out on his hammock, and sleep out in the open on his echeveria succulents. He has a water dish that he ignores and he has a dig spot in the corner with coconut husk ecoearth that he doesn't really use.
T5 HO ReptiSun UVB 10.0 tube bulb (6" from basking spot inside of screen, with reflector). The spot he likes to bask in is right at one end of the UV bulb, but he also seems to move around to find spots he likes to bask.
Mercury vapor bulb (125W, both heat and UVB, above screen).
Ceramic heating elements (100W above screen).

Temperatures
Two digital thermometers measure air temps in the basking zone and cool zone: 90-100 degrees hot, 75-85 degrees cooler areas.
Infrared probe to measure surface temps around the basking zone: 100-110 degrees surface temperatures.
Night temperatures around 75 degrees.

Food
He's never eaten a veggie or fruit although we still try to make them available nearly daily. We've tried: collard greens, mustard greens, cilantro, sweet potato, butternut squash, blueberries, bell pepper.
We've tried every type of live food and protein: dubias, crickets, bsfl (calciworms), mealworms, hornworms, waxworms, and Repashy grub pie. He seems to go through waves in his preferences, but now barely touches any of the above options which we keep rotating through.

Calcium and Vitamins
Our plan is to dust his food with calcium (without D3) once six days per week and dust them with herptivite once on the 7th day. However, since he hasn't been eating much at all, it's unclear whether he's been getting enough of either the calcium or the vitamins.

Poop and Parasites
He has still been pooping regularly so he's not impacted. They've looked normal to me, although recently much smaller and not always daily since he's eating much less. We took him to the vet 2 weeks ago and she gave him a 5 day course of parasite medication. His poop was extremely stinky before and is now not smelly at all.

Behaviors
He's generally acting the same as he did when he had a large appetite. He's regularly basking and actively running around throughout the day. He's alert and friendly. He shed more than a month ago and hasn't recently with no signs that it's imminent. He doesn't ever drink water out of his dish, but he laps it up occasionally when we drip it on his nose in his enclosure and during baths. We can't tell if our cat stresses him out or not. We've basically blocked them off from each other, but when he does get a glimpse of the cat, he always seems to run over to look at her. The cat doesn't seem to cause stress marks, so he just seems interested. He occasionally glass surfs, but we haven't been able to identify any specific reason and it's not every day.

Appetite
When he had a big appetite a month ago he was eating 30-60 small dubias (~5 mm) per day and running over as soon as I put them in his dish. Now he won't touch anything besides wax worms and only eats 2 or 3 small worms (also ~5 mm) per day.

 

[KarrieRee]

We desperately need help identifying the cause of our baby bearded dragon's lack of appetite. His name is Haku. Here's a compilation of all the information we could think of and we hope you all have some advice! We took him to the vet 2 weeks ago and she didn't seem too concerned, though she did give us parasite medication described below. The medicine dealt with the parasites, but his appetite has not returned. He's a leatherback so we were worried that his wrinkles meant he was dehydrated, but the vet didn't think so. She said he looked healthy and it might just be this time of year even though he isn't brumating. However, we want as many opinions as possible since he's young and not growing so we're very concerned. We just want him to be healthy and as first time beardie owners, the huge decrease in appetite, small size, and slow growth currently does not seem normal.

His stats:
Born Sept 9th (4 months and 1 week)
45 grams (and has barely increased in nearly a month)
12 inches

Tank setup:
120 gallon tank
Substrate is tile. He has hides, but he rarely uses them. He likes to bask on his logs, hang out on his hammock, and sleep out in the open on his echeveria succulents. He has a water dish that he ignores and he has a dig spot in the corner with coconut husk ecoearth that he doesn't really use.
T5 HO ReptiSun UVB 10.0 tube bulb (6" from basking spot inside of screen, with reflector). The spot he likes to bask in is right at one end of the UV bulb, but he also seems to move around to find spots he likes to bask.
Mercury vapor bulb (125W, both heat and UVB, above screen).
Ceramic heating elements (100W above screen).

Temperatures
Two digital thermometers measure air temps in the basking zone and cool zone: 90-100 degrees hot, 75-85 degrees cooler areas.
Infrared probe to measure surface temps around the basking zone: 100-110 degrees surface temperatures.
Night temperatures around 75 degrees.

Food
He's never eaten a veggie or fruit although we still try to make them available nearly daily. We've tried: collard greens, mustard greens, cilantro, sweet potato, butternut squash, blueberries, bell pepper.
We've tried every type of live food and protein: dubias, crickets, bsfl (calciworms), mealworms, hornworms, waxworms, and Repashy grub pie. He seems to go through waves in his preferences, but now barely touches any of the above options which we keep rotating through.

Calcium and Vitamins
Our plan is to dust his food with calcium (without D3) once six days per week and dust them with herptivite once on the 7th day. However, since he hasn't been eating much at all, it's unclear whether he's been getting enough of either the calcium or the vitamins.

Poop and Parasites
He has still been pooping regularly so he's not impacted. They've looked normal to me, although recently much smaller and not always daily since he's eating much less. We took him to the vet 2 weeks ago and she gave him a 5 day course of parasite medication. His poop was extremely stinky before and is now not smelly at all.

Behaviors
He's generally acting the same as he did when he had a large appetite. He's regularly basking and actively running around throughout the day. He's alert and friendly. He shed more than a month ago and hasn't recently with no signs that it's imminent. He doesn't ever drink water out of his dish, but he laps it up occasionally when we drip it on his nose in his enclosure and during baths. We can't tell if our cat stresses him out or not. We've basically blocked them off from each other, but when he does get a glimpse of the cat, he always seems to run over to look at her. The cat doesn't seem to cause stress marks, so he just seems interested. He occasionally glass surfs, but we haven't been able to identify any specific reason and it's not every day.

Appetite
When he had a big appetite a month ago he was eating 30-60 small dubias (~5 mm) per day and running over as soon as I put them in his dish. Now he won't touch anything besides wax worms and only eats 2 or 3 small worms (also ~5 mm) per day.

View attachment 66850 View attachment 66851 View attachment 66852

View attachment 66854 View attachment 66853

Please raise the T 5 -- distance 12-15 inches directly above the basking decor-- basking surface temps 105-110 taken w/ your probe- continue to give water to keep him hydrated- he needs calcium d 3 5 x per week lightly coated vitamins w beta carotene 2 x per week lightly coated both one time per feeding-- insects being dusted not the salads please-- the meds could still be affecting the appetite- please no more meal worms or the wax worms- those are like candy - meal worms can cause impaction in young dragons- the exo skeleton is too harsh-- please take out the coconut husk I believe the dust can cause ri's--

 

[haku_parents]

Please raise the T 5 -- distance 12-15 inches directly above the basking decor-- basking surface temps 105-110 taken w/ your probe- continue to give water to keep him hydrated- he needs calcium d 3 5 x per week lightly coated vitamins w beta carotene 2 x per week lightly coated both one time per feeding-- insects being dusted not the salads please-- the meds could still be affecting the appetite- please no more meal worms or the wax worms- those are like candy - meal worms can cause impaction in young dragons- the exo skeleton is too harsh-- please take out the coconut husk I believe the dust can cause ri's--

Thanks for the tips! I should clarify that we haven’t given him mealworms in weeks and even then it was only sparingly. Now he has calci worms and wax worms. We know wax worms aren’t good but we’re desperate for him to eat anything at this point and those are the only things he’s shown any interest in. I suppose one possibility is that he’s just a picky eater, but if we only offer staple feeders and salads that he refuses, how long can he go on a hunger strike for without causing permanent damage to his health? He already is so far below the weight charts we’ve seen at 18 weeks.

The coconut husk is new since he appeared to like digging in his plants and the vet recommended it. We will remove it, but the appetite problem precedes it and he isn’t having any respiratory issues currently. We will definitely move the lamp to be higher above this decor —thank you for that advice! Is it possible then that he is getting too much UVB? All of these forums seem to suggest that not enough UVB is the most common cause of loss of appetite, but perhaps we went overboard with both the low tube lamp and the mercury bulb.

 

[KarrieRee]

Thanks for the tips! I should clarify that we haven’t given him mealworms in weeks and even then it was only sparingly. Now he has calci worms and wax worms. We know wax worms aren’t good but we’re desperate for him to eat anything at this point and those are the only things he’s shown any interest in. I suppose one possibility is that he’s just a picky eater, but if we only offer staple feeders and salads that he refuses, how long can he go on a hunger strike for without causing permanent damage to his health? He already is so far below the weight charts we’ve seen at 18 weeks.

The coconut husk is new since he appeared to like digging in his plants and the vet recommended it. We will remove it, but the appetite problem precedes it and he isn’t having any respiratory issues currently. We will definitely move the lamp to be higher above this decor —thank you for that advice! Is it possible then that he is getting too much UVB? All of these forums seem to suggest that not enough UVB is the most common cause of loss of appetite, but perhaps we went overboard with both the low tube lamp and the mercury bulb.

What brand is the mvb and wattage- the T 5 was too close- please get some bsfl or nutri grubs from this website www.dubiaroaches.com order large nutri grubs do not dust them- use the nutri grubs as a lure to the salad bowl they are a great staple feeder for babies use as many as you want we need to get him eating again-- you can also get him some superworms order medium and feed those on his salads 1-3 every few days

 

[haku_parents]

What brand is the mvb and wattage- the T 5 was too close- please get some bsfl or nutri grubs from this website www.dubiaroaches.com order large nutri grubs do not dust them- use the nutri grubs as a lure to the salad bowl they are a great staple feeder for babies use as many as you want we need to get him eating again-- you can also get him some superworms order medium and feed those on his salads 1-3 every few days

The MVB is 125W repti-zoo. The calci worms are bsfls and we got a new shipment of them two days ago, but he’s only eaten one so far and hasn’t generally been a fan when we’ve tried in the past. We do put them in his salad bowl as a lure but he either will carefully eat just the worm or not eat it at all. Is he not too small for superworms? We thought they may have the same exoskeleton issue as meal worms but perhaps we misunderstood. Or maybe there’s a special kind for babies? Even the smallest we’ve seen looked big. I totally agree that we need to get him eating again and I can’t thank you enough for your help!

 

[KarrieRee]

The MVB is 125W repti-zoo. The calci worms are bsfls and we got a new shipment of them two days ago, but he’s only eaten one so far and hasn’t generally been a fan when we’ve tried in the past. We do put them in his salad bowl as a lure but he either will carefully eat just the worm or not eat it at all. Is he not too small for superworms? We thought they may have the same exoskeleton issue as meal worms but perhaps we misunderstood. Or maybe there’s a special kind for babies? Even the smallest we’ve seen looked big. I totally agree that we need to get him eating again and I can’t thank you enough for your help!

Ok so I am wondering if it's the mvb- does it give off a yellowish hue? You need a clear bright white basking bulb-- I would go to a Exo Terra intense basking bulb-- try the 150 watt but make sure you have a digital probe thermometer- to get surface basking temps-- you don't want to burn him up - start there see if his behavior changes --

 

[SPandS]

I do agree the uvb has to be raised. It's hard to tell in the pic but is it attached to the back glass? It looks like it's aiming forward instead of down. If that's the case even though it's too close he may actually not be getting enough uvb because it's facing the wrong direction. Raise it up some and try attaching it to the screen so it aims down where he basks. If you can't get it high enough in the tank, depending on your screen you could place it on top and have it around 8in from his basking spot.

 

[haku_parents]

Thanks for the suggestions about raising and centering the UV. It was previously attached to some clips that were in front of the glass so it slightly tilted inwards, but generally not the best positioning. We've moved it on top of the screen, directly above his basking spots. The log he basks on most often gets about 8" away from the top (it's right on the edge of the UV tube though) and the other spots he likes on the rock and plank are 14-16" away from the screen.

Edit: I'll add that he ate 2 decent sized hornworms and 2 calciworms yesterday which I was able to get vitamins on as well. So that was a big improvement!

Setup: UV tube in the back, MVB on the right, and two ceramic bulbs (one with a dimmer to get the temps right). There are no lights/heaters on the right side of the enclosure to create the gradients.

 

[KarrieRee]

Thanks for the suggestions about raising and centering the UV. It was previously attached to some clips that were in front of the glass so it slightly tilted inwards, but generally not the best positioning. We've moved it on top of the screen, directly above his basking spots. The log he basks on most often gets about 8" away from the top (it's right on the edge of the UV tube though) and the other spots he likes on the rock and plank are 14-16" away from the screen.

Edit: I'll add that he ate 2 decent sized hornworms and 2 calciworms yesterday which I was able to get vitamins on as well. So that was a big improvement!

Setup: UV tube in the back, MVB on the right, and two ceramic bulbs (one with a dimmer to get the temps right). There are no lights/heaters on the right side of the enclosure to create the gradients.
View attachment 66908


View attachment 66909

Ok w/ everything readjusted keep an eye on the behavior and his appetite -- are you offering crickets or dubias as a staple feeder? those are good to feed along w/ the calci worms but hes going to need to eat ALOT of those like 50 or more depending on what else he will eat

 

[haku_parents]

Absolutely, I offer him dubias+greens first everyday before resorting to the more appealing worms late in the day. He hasn't eaten a dubia in 2-3 weeks and has never gone for veggies. I know that encourages him to be picky and hold out for the tastier treats, but when he was going 36 hour spans having eaten nothing regularly over the last ~3 weeks, I didn't think it was a good idea to withhold the food I knew he had the best chance of actually eating.

Last month he was definitely eating ~50 dubias per day. I assume the calciworms and hornworms are more filling even though they're less nutritious? When he only eats the worms, how many hornworm/calciworms could they eat in a day? It's hard to know when his appetite is returning and I should force him to accept the dubias again. Since he scared us into switching foods, I don't have a great way to compare his appetite before/after.

 

[haku_parents]

We forgot to ask about one potentially critical variable. How long should his lights be on each day? Where we live, outside it's pretty until 6:30am and after 5:30pm. We probably didn't have his lights on long enough before (a little less than 12 hours per day). We adjusted it this week to more like 13 hours and he's been active a bit more and possibly eating a bit more.

He certainly still looks just as healthy as he did a month ago, it's just that he's barely grown. Given that he's 4.5 month and 46 grams, at what weight/age should we be seriously concerned about long-term health effects and consider taking more drastic actions with the vet and/or force feeding?

 

[KarrieRee]

We forgot to ask about one potentially critical variable. How long should his lights be on each day? Where we live, outside it's pretty until 6:30am and after 5:30pm. We probably didn't have his lights on long enough before (a little less than 12 hours per day). We adjusted it this week to more like 13 hours and he's been active a bit more and possibly eating a bit more.

He certainly still looks just as healthy as he did a month ago, it's just that he's barely grown. Given that he's 4.5 month and 46 grams, at what weight/age should we be seriously concerned about long-term health effects and consider taking more drastic actions with the vet and/or force feeding?

Post a pic of him please-- lights on 12 hrs off 12 hrs- no force feeding if he's eating on his own - calci worms are a staple forder so w/ his age he could be eating 75 at a time but you need to feed small amounts if he's gobbling them down- they have a tendency to come out undigested if he's not chewing them up hornworms are more of treats and are a hydrating worm- put the calciworms on top of the salads- and you can add the dubias on there as well see if he will eat them hornworms feed them like every other day unless they start getting too big then feed them everyday

 

[haku_parents]

That's pretty much been our strategy with the feedings and that's what I'll stick to going forward: dubias + calci worms on the salad (he seems to pick at one or two per day at least now), and if he's not eating anything, a hornworm every other day or so.

This is him getting ready for bed currently. He sleeps on these succulents most nights.

And a couple of days ago up on his basking spot.

 

[KarrieRee]

That's pretty much been our strategy with the feedings and that's what I'll stick to going forward: dubias + calci worms on the salad (he seems to pick at one or two per day at least now), and if he's not eating anything, a hornworm every other day or so.

This is him getting ready for bed currently. He sleeps on these succulents most nights.
View attachment 66997
And a couple of days ago up on his basking spot.
View attachment 66998

He looks really good- just keep feeding him and I would keep track of his weight dragons grow at their own rate as long as he's eating something basking active and pooping he's fine- are you rinsing his greens before serving? He needs to be kept hydrated the hornworms will help