Beardie appetite/UVB question

[Jewelie952]

Hey guys,

I have a 7 month old Beardie named George. I bought her from a pet shop when she was about 2 months old. Since I've had her, it has been a real struggle to get her to eat. I suspect the problems began with the pet shop.

When I say struggle, I mean it in every sense of the word.

Her husbandry seems to be okay, at least from what I've gathered. Her temps are: 70 - 80 on the cool side. 95 on the hot side, 105 - 110 basking spot. I use a digital probe to measure about once a day.

I also have been using a Zoomed t5ho with a 10.0 bulb. I had it mounted inside the tank for a while about 7 inches away from her and it did not help her appetite. Since then I have placed it on top of the viv, above mesh around 15 inches from her. I've read that this should be okay due to the strength of the bulb but please correct me if I've read wrong.

I suspect she has gout. I have taken her to the vet and the vet noticed swelling in her forearms and some lumps on her feet along with swollen toes. The vet suggested we start with antibiotics in case of a bacterial infection and did not seem interested in running a fecal even though I brought poo.

Anyway the antibiotics did nothing. Since then I've been giving her cherry juice mixed with water via a dropper. At first I noticed the swelling went down but no change to her appetite. Blood work is next when we go back to the vet. If she is large enough by then to draw blood.

(However I just got laid off again for the second time this year so this unfortunately has to wait).

I have been syringing her carnivore care (she hates being syringe fed so even this is a struggle)

I change up her vegetables and feeders constantly. She has no interest in anything except slight interest in superworms and collard greens. Her supplementation is difficult with her lack of eating. I try to mix reptiaid in her cherry juice a couple times a week and liquid calcium, only a drop or two, in her mixture on opposite days.

I also notice she tends to have joint stiffness on the days after I give her calcium. It's very much so a trend.

Forgive the length of this post, I'm just trying to touch base on everything. Also, she is very small and her growth is very stunted despite my best efforts. She weighed in at 60 grams today and 11.5 inches. This is very upsetting to me. She's still too small for blood work.

Happy to provide pics of whatever can help.

Thank you.

[KarrieRee]

Please post pics of the tank and lighting -- you have good UVB and good basking temps so we need to see why shes not eating like she should I am thinking the UVB is improperly placed-- I need to see the screen on the tank please
https://www.beardeddragon.org/useruploads/ click on XIMG at the top of the message box then click on the pic it should post --
I dont know why vets give antibiotics blindly -- if she does have gout the blood work will come back w/ high levels of uric acid --- Tracie our vet tech mod is going to be able to help you out on this one
But for the UVB 15 inches is too far away if its on top of the screen and if that screen is a fine mesh shes basically not getting any at all -- please post pics
Karrie

[Jewelie952]

Sure, here are some pictures. For reference, I posted pictures of her forearms and toes as well. The image of her right arm should show what is now a normal size and the left is still swollen. A couple swollen toes as well and a lump on her foot which has actually gone down quite a bit.

Also, I'm sure that the UVB is not close enough and I will fix that, but I do just want to say I had it mounted inside the tank for a while within 7 inches of her basking spot and I didn't see any improvement in her eating.

I'm sure it is still too far away like you've suggested but I think something else is at play here as well because I just moved the light on top of the tank 4 days ago and the non appetite has been an ongoing issue. I included one full body pic to show how small she is.

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[KarrieRee]

How tall is the tank? that T 5 should go back into the tank w/ a distance of 12-15 inches -- 7" inside the tank is too close --- basking decor piece needs to be directly below it -- I dont know where you had the decor piece when it was in the tank but for a T 5 7" is too close --- you had it set up for a T 8 -- please put it back inside the tank w/ a distance of 12-15 inches and basking decor directly under it -- I am gonna jump out here and say her swollen arm could be due to not enough UVB but I am not a expert Tracie would haft to weigh in on that and there is no way to say for sure if its gout w/ out blood work being done-- are you feeding dubia roaches?
Karrie

[Jewelie952]

I get her Dubia Roaches every now and again once they come up in my feeder rotation, lol. She likes them enough but they tend to go to waste. She'll have one and then just be over it. That's how it seems like she is with most feeders. She'll have one and then just be over it.

Just seems like any feeder I buy for her is going to waste lately. Except for superworms, I've had a slight bit more success with superworms. But yeah, with Dubias she has one and then doesn't care about them anymore. I have not tried the really small ones, though. Not sure if that would make the difference.

Oh also it's a 40 gallon tank so I'd say her tank is about 18 inches tall?

I'll move the UVB back inside the tank asap.

Looking forward to hearing from Tracie on her opinion on the possibility of gout - the vet is apprehensive about drawing blood since Georgie is so small still.

[Drache613]

Hello,

George is a great looking girl.
There is definitely something going on, probably a calcium absorption issue, coupled with
some gout development perhaps. A lot of times, they seem to go hand in hand with each
other.
When you use calcium, are you using the calcium with D3, or without? Since you are using
the Reptisun 10 T5, I usually recommend using just calcium without D3. How often do you
give that, just a couple of times per week then, what brand is it?
I do agree with the vet on not doing a blood draw. At only 60 grams, it isn't recommended.
They normally don't like to do a blood draw until they are over 100 grams, it can decrease
their iron levels too much. Did they not do any x-rays to determine bone density, etc?
I would continue the cherry juice, daily, to help with kidney function.
As Karrie suggested, try to get the UVB light mounted at around 10 inches from her, under
neath of the screen top, if possible.
You can try silkworms, phoenix/calcium worms, or hornworms if you haven't already. Some
superworms are fine, also. I realize it's hard due to her age & her still growing.
I see a couple of toes trying to swell up as well as the left wrist/arm area, too.
That is interesting on her being more stiff after giving her the liquid calcium?

Tracie

[Jewelie952]

Hi Tracie -

Thank you for replying. I give her Flukers liquid calcium for reptiles and it doesn't say it has D3. I know for sure that the powder calcium I have is without D3. I use the liquid calcium a few times a week I would say. Only a couple drops at a time.

About 2 times a week I give her Reptivite, I think that has D3 in it.

The vet did want to run an x-ray on George, when I have the funds that is definitely highest priority. I have since moved the UVB inside of the tank.

This week I've been trying out silkworms with George but she isn't very interested. I tried hornworms last week and she didn't care about those either.

I feel very defeated. I cannot get this girl to eat. She is very alert, no black beard and maybe a couple stress marks but not many. She runs around a lot when I take her out of the tank and basks normally.

She just doesn't eat

[KarrieRee]

Have you arranged for a piece of decor to be directly underneath the UVB approx 12-15 inches ?
Karrie

[Jewelie952]

Hi Karrie, yes it's underneath it now

[KarrieRee]

Ok watch her behavior now -- she should start eating w/ correct basking temps and the UVB in the proper place
Karrie

[Drache613]

Hello,

I know just how frustrating it can be, trying to get them to eat. It sounds like you are
definitely trying out various insects, etc. Hopefully changing her lighting will help her out
some right now.
Are you planning on trying some baby food slurries to see if you can get nutrition into her
that way? A lot of times, dropping food onto their nose will entice them to lick some food
off.
Keep trying, they take awhile to start recovering from illness or gout symptoms. Did the
vet not consider any gout meds at all? How are her joints today?

Tracie

[Jewelie952]

Hi Tracie -

No the vet didn't suggest gout meds yet. She's hung up on the bloodwork thing.

She's still not eating. Her joints are about the same.

She did lick a couple blueberries yesterday though. That was some improvement. I have to go buy some baby food but I did mash up a little banana the other day and syringed a tiny bit to her. She didn't really care for it.

I have the most success syringe feeding her Carnivore Care. She seems to like the taste once we get past the fact that she hates being syringe fed.

She took a big poo yesterday which is crazy because she's obviously not eating much.

Feeling pretty low.

[Drache613]

Hello,

Oh good grief, so the vet is waiting for her to gain enough weight to do a blood test?
So her joints are not more swollen then?
That is some good news she ate a little bit though. She didn't like banana? A lot of
them don't like being syringe fed, it can be stressful. Did you try the squash yet or the
sweet potato? At least she likes the carnivore care then, hopefully her appetite will pick
up soon.
Were you able to get some black/tart cherry juice for her?
Keep us posted on her.

Tracie