Hoping for some thoughts on George

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Hoping for some thoughts on George

Postby jkratman » Wed Nov 06, 2019 4:05 pm

Hi,

George is my 5 and a half year old female. She typically goes into a light brumation (awake but sluggish most days) this time of year and is fully awake and hungry by late January or early February.

I keep detailed records of her behavior and for the fifth year running, she's acting completely different. :-)

She stopped eating about a month ago and I assumed she was getting ready to brumate.

She's snoozing most days the last month or so, on her basking spot, but is awake, aware and bright eyed.

She laid one clutch of sterile eggs this year, about 20 in all. The year before she laid three clutches.

Here's what's bothering me. She is not eating, but she keeps pooping. At first it was substantial, then lately its been mostly small amounts, with white urate. Usually, the small urate and small blot of poo is accompanied by clear water.

I'm thinking maybe she's still evacuating, maybe for a deeper brumation than she's had before?

About her last couple of months:

3/4/19- 603.8 grams (she was pretty chunky)
5/4 /19- 20 eggs
7/12/19- changed t5 reptisun 10.0 UVB
8/3 - 525 grams
9/25- 516.5 grams
10/6- not eating
10/19/19 - starts pooping, substantial and normal
11/2 - 11/6/19 - small amounts of runny poop, normal urates, clear water, twice a day
11/5 - 456.6 grams (after a lot of poop)

lights, cage, food etc:

4x4X2 crossfire type enclosure (home for last three years)
2 ft T5 reptisun 10.0, approx 10" from high point

Hot end temp - 100-110
cool end temp - 79-83
coolest temp at night: 65
(confirmed by laser thermometer and digital thermometer)

She eats a good amount of greens when she's awake and active, but loves bugs more. Main feeders are collard greens, turnip greens, and BSF. She gets other vegetables/fruit daily and enjoys them when eating. She loves bugs and often gets additional/different feeders in summer months.

Thoughts? Is he weight loss too much? Is the runny poo a concern?

Thanks for your thoughts.

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Re: Hoping for some thoughts on George

Postby Drache613 » Thu Nov 07, 2019 1:43 am

Hello,

She looks good overall, great colors!
I can't 'tell from the pictures whether or not her fat pads on her head are up or down?
Since she has lost weight, & her stools are a bit runny or off I would take her in for a fecal
to be sure something else isn't going on. Maybe even a blood test to see if her kidneys are
doing ok also.
Egg laying can take a toll on them sometimes. Does she act like she could have more eggs
or not?

Tracie
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Re: Hoping for some thoughts on George

Postby jkratman » Thu Nov 07, 2019 6:30 am

Thanks for the response, Tracie! I don't think her head looks different. Here are more shots, your thoughts?

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Re: Hoping for some thoughts on George

Postby claudiusx » Thu Nov 07, 2019 7:42 am

Hi there,

I agree with Tracies advice about at least getting a fecal done. Bloodwork would be nice if you are willing and can afford it.

Her fat pads don't look bad. In the first pictures she looked a bit skinny but really she's not bad at all :)

She does look a bit dark in those new pictures. Did she just wake up or had the tank not heated up enough?

Her setup sounds just fine to me. And her diet sounds good too!
How many and of what feeder insects is she getting each week?

Sometimes they really do just go through phases where they act a bit weird, but I would definitely second the suggestion of getting the fecal. It will at least clear your mind if nothing else :)

-Brandon
Follow along with all my beardies. Check out my thread here!: Claud's Crew
P.S. We have lots of pictures ;)
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Re: Hoping for some thoughts on George

Postby jkratman » Thu Nov 07, 2019 8:27 am

Thanks, Brandon,

Appreciate your response-- yes, lights had just turned on and she was sleeping.

I'm continuing to try to feed her, but she's not biting. When she actually IS eating, she usually eats about 40 BSF every two days. I try to keep it down because she was really fat.

I am still offering food, but she's not eating.

Only one herp vet in 100 miles or so, but I'm going to try to get her an appointment!
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Re: Hoping for some thoughts on George

Postby jkratman » Thu Nov 07, 2019 9:11 am

She just did it again...trying to get appointment

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Re: Hoping for some thoughts on George

Postby claudiusx » Thu Nov 07, 2019 9:14 am

Looks like there was quite a bit of liquid in the poo. Which is slightly odd if she hasn't been eating. Has she been drinking?

-Brandon
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Re: Hoping for some thoughts on George

Postby jkratman » Thu Nov 07, 2019 9:17 am

nope, not at all. Bath yesterday, she would not drink, even if I dribbled on her lips
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Re: Hoping for some thoughts on George

Postby claudiusx » Thu Nov 07, 2019 9:24 am

Very Odd,

Maybe Tracie will have a better idea. Can you call the vet and see if you can at least come in and drop off a stool sample? Some vets want to see the dragon first so it would be good to call and explain.

-Brandon
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Re: Hoping for some thoughts on George

Postby jkratman » Sun Nov 10, 2019 7:01 am

Got a vet appointment for Thursday, will keep you all posted! Unfortunately, I could not get anyone to help me sooner :-(
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Re: Hoping for some thoughts on George

Postby jkratman » Mon Nov 18, 2019 10:08 am

An update on George-- Took her to the vet last Thursday, and after haranguing me for about ten minutes on the importance of calcium (George gets calcium every other bug meal (ie, every 96 hours) and has a t5 reptisun 10 uvb), she noticed the mass in her belly I had been trying to tell her about.

She went in for an ultrasound, came back with "It could be an ovary or it could be her liver, in which case, there's nothing I can do." :-(

It all seemed to hinge on whether she responded to antibiotics and that it would indicate an infection in her ovary (Vet said we could look at removing the ovary), but again, if it was her liver, not much could be done.

They gave her iv fluids (a big subdermal blob of water) and vitamins.

So, she recommended giving her a round of antibiotics and liquid calcium and to take "a wait and see approach". I sent her an email today, at her request. She said if I could not get George to eat, I would have to force feed her.

So, George does look better and her weight loss is slowing, no diarrhea. The mass in her belly is still there, but is either smaller or harder to feel with the massive increase in her water content from the IV.

She looks VERY thin, tho, with sunken eyes, weighs 402g this morning. Her fat pads are completely gone and sunken.

Ever since the vet visit, her skin looks beautiful, tho, bright orange. She's still active, but seems intent on staying on her basking spot. Tried enticing her were some of her favorites, but no-go.

Please send good thoughts her way. I'm thinking the worst.

her's a pic of her today along with the weird poo. Almost looks like an egg.

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Re: Hoping for some thoughts on George

Postby Tfulton30 » Mon Nov 18, 2019 4:18 pm

I’m so sorry about your baby, I am going through some hard times with mine too and she is the same age as yours. It’s not looking good. Prayers to both of you.
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Re: Hoping for some thoughts on George

Postby jkratman » Mon Nov 18, 2019 5:44 pm

I'm sorry to say she passed away a few minutes ago. :-(

Best pet I ever had. She really was my friend.
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Re: Hoping for some thoughts on George

Postby claudiusx » Mon Nov 18, 2019 5:46 pm

Wow that's horrible I'm so sorry for your loss.

-Brandon
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Re: Hoping for some thoughts on George

Postby jkratman » Tue Nov 19, 2019 7:42 am

thanks, appreciate that.
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